Duck!

[justmargie]

Any advice on the duck front? I've heard that they turn out too greasy, too dry, too tough, etc... I'm hoping that it'll be too good! Any suggestions?

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Perhaps not what you are picturing, but I usually bone out the breasts and separate off the legs, then either toss or make broth from the carcass. I season the legs with coarse salt, cracked pepper, thyme and bay leaf, then let rest in the refrigerator over night before pricking the skin and roasting in a hot oven. The breasts, I season with salt, pepper and olive oil before grilling like steak. The legs will be well done and succulent with crunchy skin, while the breasts will be juicy, served rare and thinly sliced. If you have made broth, you can reduce it with shallot, red wine, a splash of cassis, and wisk in some butter at the end for a unifying sauce for both meats.

[Wilfrid]

If you want to roast a whole duck, the best tip I can give you is to take the time to score the skin all over. Try not to cut the actual flesh, but make deep, criss-cross grooves which will let the fat run out and help the skin crisp as the duck cooks. This being your first duck, I would try a long, slow, low-termperature roast - checking it periodically - as not much can go wrong that way. If you try it quick and hot, it can toughen up on you. Rub plenty of salt into the skin too, and you may need to drain the roasting pan (your duck will be on a rack, otherwise it'll stew), occasionally and carefully. Keep the fat - it's great for cooking.

[Jon Tseng]

haven't roasted a whole duck for quite some time. my advice would be to cut the b*****d up and treat it piecemeal, though of course depends on whom your cooking for.

Foolproof way to do legs and guaranteed to avoid dryness is to confit them. Only downside is you need quite a bit of fat to do it - which you need to get in tins or roast a duck to do it - sort of chicken (or duck) and egg really. There was some mention of it recently on this thread recently:

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?ac...bb7b7683ae3bea6

For the breasts I cut the duck up, keeping the breasts in one piece on the bone (slice through the ribs to get the breastbone off of the carcass). Then score skin, brown (poss rub with honey) and roast at 190c for fifteen mins til medium. Rest then carve (if a little underdone when you carve them off can always brown the bottom half in a frying pan).

The other advantage of cutting up the duck is that you've got all the other goodies to play with seperately ie carcass for stock/soup, rendered fat from carcass for general frying duty or roast potatos, giblets (if included) for soup or for stuffing an omlette (esp. the liver)

Alternately if you're roasting a strategy to avoid dryness could be slow-roasting (About 150-175c for 2-2.5 hrs). Good write up in Gary Rhodes "New British Classics" but haven't got round to trying this one out.

Breasts cook slower (or are eaten more medium) than legs; the french sometimes carve the breasts off the roast bird early and finish the legs in the over for an extra 20-30 mins.

cheerio

J

[justmargie]

Thanks! This is really giving me some good ideas about how to approach this. What a fun site this is!!

[Suzanne F]

I haven't roasted a duck since 1993. I use my own variation of a recipe from the NY Times for "Skillet Duck" (an official variation was printed in Mark Bittman's column in 1998, and he credits Paula Peck's Art of Good Eating from 1961 as his source). For these, you use duck quarters -- so you can make any number of portions. And you can get the advantage of confit even with the breasts -- but without the fat. You can marinate the duck with herbs/spices beforehand, or sprinkle the pieces as they cook. Flavorings are only limited by your imagination and likes & dislikes. I like to french the breasts, so they lie down better in the pan.

Basically, you heat a skillet with a cover to very hot. Put in the duck pieces skin side down, season, and cook over high heat for 5 minutes. Loosen the pieces. Turn the heat down to low, and cook another 5 - 10 minutes. Turn the heat down to very low, cover, and cook for another 20 minutes or so. Turn the duck pieces over, re-cover, and cook another 20 minutes. Just before serving, uncover, turn the heat back up, turn the duck pieces skin-side down again, and crisp them.

You end up with steamed meat, very moist and tender, most of the fat rendered off, yet crisp skin. And quite a bit of jus in the pan, as a start for a sauce. The fat, of course, needs to be poured off, but then you've got lovely duck fat for cooking.

[Shiva]

Here's a recipe and technique I've used a number of times with good results: Alton Brown on Duck.

The Recipe.

The first time I tried this one I over steamed it. Just a gentle steam works best, not a rolling boil.

[Brad S]

Here's a couple nice recipe's for curing duck breast

I hope you enjoy them

cc

http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/showthr...&highlight=duck

http://www.cheftalkcafe.com/forums/showthr...ht=duck+recipes

[Wilfrid]

Nobody likes a whole roast duck any more?

[Suzanne F]

Oh, no, Wilfrid, I LOVE to eat it, and someday I hope to have the roast duck at Ilo, which looks fantastic. And Chinese roast duck ... aaah. But I just don't like to COOK it. Besides, there are only 2 of us at home, and we do have to be a bit careful how much we eat (unlike the very first time I brought home of free-range chicken of 4 pounds or so and we ate it all at one sitting).

[Toby]

Me, I like whole roast duck. I used to use Marcella Hazen's method, which was influenced by Peking Duck technique -- as I remember, she plunged duck into boiling water for a brief time to open the pores in the skin, and then blow dried it while blotting up the fat as it was exuded through the pores. (Works better if 2 people do this together.) Of course, you lose all the duck fat that way, but you end up with a very non-fatty, almost game-like, duck. I like stuffing it with soppressata, herbs, parmesan and bread crumbs. When it's done, I follow Patricia Wells' tip of letting the roasted duck rest on an angle with neck down and tail in air for about 20 minutes -- she says "this heightens the flavor by allowing the juices to flow down through to the breast meat."

And, for slow-cooked duck, Prudhomme (in his first book), has a wonderful 4 or 5 hour production, in which you get lots of cayenne-tasting fat and duck meat that just falls off the bone.

[Priscilla]

Sometimes cook pieces and other preparations, but mostly roast a whole duck, according generally to Madeleine Kamman's lower-heat method, until it is way done. The flavor development is intense, and the skin crisps incomparably. Craig Claiborne recommends, I think, higher heat at the start and then lowering to finish.

Toby, sometimes I do the tail-in-the-air resting as per Patricia Wells, too, but worry about the skin remoisturfying, after just having spent all that time assiduously rendering and crisping.

Priscilla

[nyfirepatrolchef]

Me, I like whole roast duck.  I used to use Marcella Hazen's method, which was influenced by Peking Duck technique -- as I remember, she plunged duck into boiling water for a brief time to open the pores in the skin, and then blow dried it while blotting up the fat as it was exuded through the pores.  (Works better if 2 people do this together.) Of course, you lose all the duck fat that way, but you end up with a very non-fatty, almost game-like, duck.  I like stuffing it with soppressata, herbs, parmesan and bread crumbs. When it's done, I follow Patricia Wells' tip of letting the roasted duck rest on an angle with neck down and tail in air for about 20 minutes -- she says "this heightens the flavor by allowing the juices to flow down through to the breast meat."

And, for slow-cooked duck, Prudhomme (in his first book), has a wonderful 4 or 5 hour production, in which you get lots of cayenne-tasting fat and duck meat that just falls off the bone.

stuffed with sopressata....

rapture...bliss...just plain WOW!

Tip of the helmet to you~

[nyfirepatrolchef]

Im about to kick myself for NEVER thinking there was a way to have duck besides a la Canal Street.

Man, grilled duck breast.

What a concept.

As for roasting separate legs...how hot is *hot*? And ballpark figure...how long?

[macrosan]

One of my favorite dishes, whole roast duck

The latest add-on feature in out house is that my cook lets the duck roast for about a half hour, then (once a fair amount of the fat has melted thru the scores in the skin and the skin has just started to crisp), she brushes maple syrup all over the skin. Yummmmm. That sems to get the skin extra crispy, and the flavor is excellent.

[Andy Lynes]

One of my favorite dishes, whole roast duck   

The latest add-on feature in out house is that my cook lets the duck roast for about a half hour

Your cook is roasting duck in the out house????....that must have an unusual flavour.

[Tonyfinch]

In a recent Delia Smith programme she claim to have finally "cracked" roasting a whole duck after years of faffing about.

Prick skin with fork. Rub skin with salt. Roast on a high heat (200-220C) for the whole time (20 min per lb). Pour off fat from time to time but do not lower heat.

That's it. Works perfectly

[Bux]

Man, grilled duck breast.

What a concept.

I am quite sure the Gascon chef, Andre Daguin (his daughter markets a fair share of the duck breasts--and foie gras--sold in NY.) gets the credit for introducing duck breast served rare as a steak. In France it's known as magret de canard or maigret de canard. More often than not these days, it's sliced and fanned out on a plate in the fancier restaurants. It's hardly a Gascon, or even French specialty any more than foie gras today. Recently I saw it listed in the English translation of several restaurants in Spain as "beefsteak of duck" and "duck entrecote."

It's interesting to see how widespread the revolution has been and how many people cut up a duck and cook the different parts in different ways. In France and the NY market, it's easy enough to buy duck breasts sold separately. Oddly enough in Chinatown I can only find the legs and thighs or whole ducks. In any event, this promotes the cooking by the parts.

When we cook the breast, I score the fat and cook the breasts skin side down in a pan on no more than medium heat until the fat has mostly rendered and the skin is crisp, but the meat itself has little more than warmed. Periodically, the fat is removed from the pan. The breast is flipped over and cooked briefly to the desired doneness on high heat.

The thighs and legs are usually briased much like chicken in coq au vin and often with red wine, mushrooms and pancetta or bacon just like the afore mentioned classic. For us, these are two separate meals. Cooked until it is almost falling off the bone, the leg and thigh meat taken off the bone is a great sauce for pasta.

Although I love Chinese roast duck, roast whole duck at home is so passe that it's well worth bringing back. It can be delcious if you don't have that craving for the rare breast. On the whole however, I used to prefer braised duck, or one roasted in a covered casserole, to one roasted in the oven. A slow cooking in a covered casserole will allow the fat to render itself and have the meat very juicy and rich. Remember to remove the fat from the top of the pot liquids before reducing the juices for sauce. The two classic French recipes for braised duck are with peas, or olives.

One of the best duck breasts I've had was "poached" in duck fat at reasonable low temperature so that it was evenly rare, but of an incredible texture. This is nothing like confit. I'm not sure who gets credit for this way of cooking, possibly Keller or someone in France--an expert voice might interject the culprit. Blue Hill does this with their duck breast. I believe the salmon is similarly prepared and well worth experiencing.

[Toby]

Bux, Blue Hill's salmon is memorable. I've had the poached duck, but also tasted a chicken dish there which I suspect was poached also and it was the best-textured chicken I ever tasted.

When I lived in San Francisco, I shopped at the Mission St. Market, which had an Italian fish and poultry store. They too sold whole duck and duck legs. They said the breasts were requisition from their purveyors by restaurants; the restaurants didn't want the legs. Maybe that's what happens here also. In Chinatown you can also get duck gizzards and hearts (great for confit salad with cracklings) but not the livers -- probably the same deal.

[Rachel Perlow]

So, Margie - how'd it turn out?

[ngatti]

Perhaps i didn't read this thread as carefully as I should have. But I don't recall anyone suggesting that the duck hang for a few days. Very important IMO for a whole roast duck. Not so much to let the duck get high (although it may a very little), but rather to let it dry out. Most important in achieving a good crisp skin. You'll find the difference between a duck roasted 'out of the bag' and a duck that has sat on a rack in the fridge, unwrapped for 3-4 days quite remarkable (irregardeless of the marinade used to achieve color). The cooking time becomes less and the fat tends to render better, resulting in a just right cooked duck that remains moist but not too fatty and greasy. The skin a rich dark mahoghany color that is extraordinarily crisp, yet not burnt at all. Slow roasting works best for me. A conventonal oven set about 250-275 for a bit of time. How much? Well until it's cooked! Really it depends on the sugars in your marinade and the temperature of your oven. Keep checking, you'll know. What's that famous tag line. "When it's brown it's cooked. when it's black it's f***ed."

Wilfred is right about scoring the skin but I would limit the scoring to the the fat pockets on the backside of the bird ( its non-presentation side). Score lengthwise along the bottom of the thigh from top of the thigh towards the parsons nose on each side. There are also two fat pockets just south of the wing/breast joints that should also be scored.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Nick (who has eviscerated, decapitated, depaddled and roasted much 'Four Seasons' Farmhouse Duck and misses it)

[Jon Tseng]

yes, when we have tried peking duck at home always hung to overnight outside the fridge from a frame (need bowl beneath to catch juices)

a quicker and dirtier method is to blast it with a hairdrier, although results not so good

cheerio

j

[Wilfrid]

Letting it sit and dry out is a new tip for me, so thanks Nick. I kind of like the criss-cross scoring of the breast skin - looks pretty once it crisps up.

[Jinmyo]

Nick, another way of doing it is to at least let it hang in the open for a few hours with a fan running on it. Same for chicken. "Old" Chinese technique. I prefer unwrapped in the refrigerator also, though. Or wrapped lightly in cheesecloth. And in a tray.

[it aint easy being cheesy]

An easy and fun technique is Duck Civet. A little play on the classic is both easy and fun.

Remove all innards. Salt and Pepper duck

Sear duck in hot pan with oil.

After all sides are golden brown remove duck and toss in 2 cups red wine some chopped carrots, celery, garlic, onion, thyme bay leaf, etc,

Add duck back to pot and cover with water. Place in oven on 300 degrees till tender.

Strain liquid and degrease

Either serve parts of duck at this point or pick the meat and use in other recipes.

Mash potatoes and veggies with crusty bread and sea salt.

Lots of butter

Yum Yum