Why do we?

[jsolomon]

I don't know what started me thinking along this line. But, I started today.

I have two questions about press-pots that really cooked my noodle, and I think I have one of them answered (but not very satisfactorily).

1: Why do we press press-pots instead of lifting?

2: Why aren't there press-pots with finer filters?

Here's the deal that makes me think it's worth my time to worry about. I really like press-pot coffee. The flavor is top-notch, but I don't have the scratch to spend on a grinder to do it justice. So I end up with more sludge than I can handle. Question 2 would address that. Also, in previous press-pots, I've noticed blow-outs from pressing too hard, etc. Lifting, depending on how speedily done, could take care of that.

The ancillaries are that I work in an engineering college, and I think it would be really slick to take a couple independent study credits, and design, build, and possibly market/patent a different kind of press pot.

So, I'm curious, why do we press pots of coffee the way we do? And, second, if you could change a press-pot, how would you change it and why?

[carswell]

1:  Why do we press press-pots instead of lifting?

←

While I'd be interestend in seeing a sketch of your design, I can't imagine a lift pot that would be mechanically simpler than a press pot. Also, with the pot at counter or table height, pressing is physically less demanding than pulling, which would be counted an advantage by, say, those with arthritic hands. It's more secure, too, since you're pushing perpendicularly against a fixed surface. (In decades of pressing, I've never had the pot slip from under my hand.) And in a world where gravity is a force to be reckoned with, I'm not sure I see the advantage of lifting, since the particles have a natural tendency to sink (make two identical press pots of coffee; after pressing, pour one immediately but let the other sit for a couple of minutes before pouring; the former will be sludgier than the latter).

What I'd love to see someone invent is a press pot that doesn't occasionally squirt hot coffee from the spout during pressing.

2:  Why aren't there press-pots with finer filters?

There are. Think add-on. You can buy a nylon mesh filter that removes quite a bit of dust-type sediment and is especially recommended for coffee ground with "whirly blade" grinders. See Sweet Maria's French Press page (scroll about 2/3 of the way down to Nylon Fine Sediment Filterscreen).

[jsolomon]

I'm not sure I see the advantage of lifting, since the particles have a natural tendency to sink

←

Remember, that the tendencies the particles have are also the tendencies that the liquid will have. Lifting with a filter at the bottom will let gravity force the coffee through the filter (like a drip filter holder) instead of force from your hand doing essentially the opposite

What I'd love to see someone invent is a press pot that doesn't occasionally squirt hot coffee from the spout during pressing.

←

That's part of what I'm going to aim to design out.

What I'm also pondering is if I can design the plunger so that you set a timer when you set the top on, and then it plunges (or lifts) at the proscribed time without any user intervention.

Like I said, I work in an engineering college with an affiliated food science department. Something can be figured out. I just hope I can get to a simple, robust design that will stand the test of time.

[PCL]

Off topic maybe, but here goes:

If you're thinking about patenting a design, and you're asking for ideas around here, and elsewhere, how are you going to credit and distribute a share of royalties should your product go on to magnificent things and revolutionises the coffee drinking world?

and you've already put ideas into the public domain, so your invention would have to integrate them all ina novel way provided you haven't disclosed too many novel ideas already in the two posts above...

don't know why i think of these things, but maybe it's the extra caffeine in my system today.

[phaelon56]

There is already a coffee related device that turns the top down paradigm on its head but it's for solids - not liquids.

The La Marzocco Swift Grinder automatically grinds, does and tamps to fill the espresso machine portafilter. Traditional hand tamping (which is still the best method if performed by a qualified and experienced barista) has one fill the basket, level the grounds to distribute, apply downward rotating pressure to compact the contents and then do a lighter spin of a full revolution or two to "polish" the surface.

The Swift uses and auger assembly that starts by moving down to the bottom of the portafilter basket before the dose of grounds is released. It then moves (motorized) upwards to compact the grounds that are forced down around the blade of the auger into the bottom of the basket.

Novel solution to a very complex problem (the Swift is the only auto grind/tamp/dose system outside of super-auto espresso machines that seems to work consistently and even it has its issues with consistency). But I'm not sure how you could possibly apply that to press pots.

Doesn't Bodum make a new model of Press pot with a fine mesh filter that's supposed to eliminate the sludge problem?

[jsolomon]

Owen,

You're right. Bodum does have the nifty nylon filter, but my experience, and likely yours, is that plastic, any plastic, really has a detrimental effect on the coffee's flavor.

I know there are some really interesting filters out there, so I thought it might be a good experience to play with some of them, and see what I could see.

[jsolomon]

Off topic maybe, but here goes:

If you're thinking about patenting a design, and you're asking for ideas around here, and elsewhere, how are you going to credit and distribute a share of royalties should your product go on to magnificent things and revolutionises the coffee drinking world?

and you've already put ideas into the public domain, so your invention would have to integrate them all ina novel way provided you haven't disclosed too many novel ideas already in the two posts above...

don't know why i think of these things, but maybe it's the extra caffeine in my system today.

←

50% for me, 50% for eG?

[kingseven]

There is a manufacturer doing the lift as opposed to press thing:

La Cafetiere Tirra

As for the finer mesh - the concern with a press pot is that the mesh gets jammed meaning you have to press harder until you have sufficient force to overcome the blockage. This will usually lead to a bit of an explosion of very hot coffee all over you. Which these days equals lawsuit.

The grind of your coffee is very important, not only to prevent problems with the mesh, but also for the flavour profile of the drink. You need to be using a burr grinder really. Blade grinders not only pulverise the coffee into useless fragments but they alse generate what can only be described as coffee dust which will clog filters, espresso machines and anything it can. Annoying stuff. Personally all blade grinders are good for is breadcrumbs.

As for the perfect press pot - some better visual guidelines for people so they actually put enough coffee in. I can't stand it when people waste a great coffee by making it far too weak (having ground it too fine or too poorly).

[jsolomon]

There is a manufacturer doing the lift as opposed to press thing:

La Cafetiere Tirra

As for the finer mesh - the concern with a press pot is that the mesh gets jammed meaning you have to press harder until you have sufficient force to overcome the blockage.  This will usually lead to a bit of an explosion of very hot coffee all over you.  Which these days equals lawsuit.

←

If this were true, about the mesh getting jammed, a drip coffee maker would never work.

[kingseven]

I've seen people find it too hard to push easily, then apply massive force and then "boom" coffee everywhere.

It takes a special kind of someone.

[jsolomon]

I'm so special that my short bus has just 2 wheels.

[hopkin]

the filtering of coffee requires pressure, be it that of gravity (drip with a courser grind) or some other nature such as the press pot or vacuum brewer, or to an extreme: espresso.

letting the press or cup settle for about 20 seconds before drinking or pouring helps avoid the sludge.

a good quality grind will not only solve much of your sludge problem (we call those 'fines' or dust) it will greatly improve the quality of your coffee as it will be more evenly extracted.

i like to use the potato analogy. imagine if you cut up a bunch of potatoes, some in a fine dice, some in chunks, and some just in half. steam for 20 minutes, and enjoy.

[hopkin]

also, never press down with too much force. to avoid the pressure, just back the press off a bit, wait for a few seconds, and then push down again.

[missmaia]

1> Don't push down too hard or too quickly, and coffee "blowout" will no longer be an issue.

2> They do. Bodum makes a finer screen, and there used to be a company called... er... Melliure(?)

that somewhat specialized in top-notch french press pots... every one came with a removable finer mesh screen. It has been too long since I've had one in my hands, unfortunatley, and I can't remember if the screen was nylon or another metal. I *do* remember though that you could pull them out and they would fit into another pot if you wanted.

Might try searching for old screens, sterilize, and then place into your pot.

[jgould]

re: bodun's medium (32oz) french press:

re: guidance on how much coffee vs amount of water, etc...

i have 8oz coffee mugs: 8oz = 1 cup = .5 pint.

bodun's scoop = coffee 7g/.25oz per cup = 2 level Tbs = 4 tsp (per cup??)

1st question: can someone translate this info to the "proper" amount of ground coffee to pour into the french press?

standard U.S. measure = 7g of ground coffee = 2 level Tbs - per - 6oz of water

another measure: 1oz of coffee - to - 4 cups of water

2nd question: mix n' match????

mass: 1g = .035oz, or 1oz = 28.3g

volume: 1 fluid oz (U.S.) = .125 cup = .3 dl = 2Tbs = 6tsp

3rd question: using all of the above, can someone please suppy the answer to the following question:

assume a 32oz bodun french press, & would like to make 4 8oz cups of coffee, how many bodun scoops should i use?????????????????

[jgould]

re: bodun's medium (32oz) french press:

re: guidance on how much coffee vs amount of water, etc...

i have 8oz coffee mugs: 8oz = 1 cup = .5 pint.

bodun's scoop = coffee 7g/.25oz per cup = 2 level Tbs = 4 tsp (per cup??)

1st question: can someone translate this info to the "proper" amount of ground coffee to pour into the french press?

standard U.S. measure = 7g of ground coffee = 2 level Tbs - per - 6oz of water

another measure: 1oz of coffee - to - 4 cups of water

2nd question: mix n' match????

mass: 1g = .035oz, or 1oz = 28.3g

volume: 1 fluid oz (U.S.) = .125 cup = .3 dl = 2Tbs = 6tsp

3rd question: using all of the above, can someone please suppy the answer to the following question:

assume a 32oz bodun french press, & would like to make 4 8oz cups of coffee, how many bodun scoops should i use?????????????????

←

actually, can anyone take the information supplied above & simply answer the following questions:

to make 3 8oz cups of coffee (24oz of water?) from a french press, how many BODUN scoops should one pour into the press? AND,

what measure of whole beans should one grind to produce the amount of coarsely ground coffee to = the 3 - 8oz cups of coffee??

thx very much for any & all help

p.s. bought 1lb of guatemala antigua for $5.99 vs. the organic $9.99.

being new to top quality coffee beans, i thought guatemala was in the top tier; & therefore, similarly priced???

Edited October 3, 2005 by jgould (log)

[jgould]

wow surprised no one, of ALL those who read this site, has, at the very least, responded

Edited October 5, 2005 by jgould (log)

[jsolomon]

jgould, a good number of us measure our coffee by different methods, that is likely the reason none of us answered.

Personally, I like 16 grams of coffee per 12-ounce cup. That would be 32 grams of coffee for 24 ounces of finished product (3-8 ounce cups)

For Guatemala coffee I generally have been drinking Huehuetenango (way-way-teh-nahn-go).

For your measure question, 1 Tbsp is 3 tsp.

For how much to use, that's largely an issue of personal taste and roast. I suggest starting out with one scoop per cup and seeing out it tastes and adjusting from there. You might end up using $1.00 worth of coffee to do it, but you'd be out more than that if you went to your local coffee shop, so I don't think you should be too put out by this.

[jgould]

jgould, a good number of us measure our coffee by different methods, that is likely the reason none of us answered.

Personally, I like 16 grams of coffee per 12-ounce cup.  That would be 32 grams of coffee for 24 ounces of finished product (3-8 ounce cups)

For Guatemala coffee I generally have been drinking Huehuetenango (way-way-teh-nahn-go).

For your measure question, 1 Tbsp is 3 tsp.

For how much to use, that's largely an issue of personal taste and roast.  I suggest starting out with one scoop per cup and seeing out it tastes and adjusting from there.  You might end up using $1.00 worth of coffee to do it, but you'd be out more than that if you went to your local coffee shop, so I don't think you should be too put out by this.

←

thanks VERY much.

to finish the circle, as u suggest above: 32g of ground-for-24oz of coffee;

& 1 Tbs = 3 tsp; therefore,

a) 32g of burr grind = ____ Tbs? ____ bodun scoop(s)?

b) in your opinion, to produce 24oz of coffee, do YOU use 24oz of water?

c) to produce 32g (___ ?Tbs) of ground, how many oz/g/Tbs, of whole beans do YOU use???

thought the guatemalan antigua was considered the "best", partucularly for that price??

much appreciated

[jsolomon]

Prices vary from place-to-place. At the coffee roaster I go to, I can get any coffee I want from between 8.50 and 9.00 per pound. If I go to a grocery store, I'm paying 11.00-14.00 per pound for crap. Price depends on many factors.

For 24 ounces of finished coffee, I would expect 2 ounces of hold-up by the filter and coffee for starters, and see where you end up when you experiment from there.

For your volume question, that depends a lot on the grind, the alignment of Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, and Uranus. But, to produce 32 g of ground coffee, I start with 32 g. On my conical tubes that I carry my coffee to work in, it ends up at about 45-50 ml of ground coffee per 12-ounce cup, so you will want between 90-100 ml of ground coffee.

I get this coming to about 6.7 ~=7 Tbsp of coffee.

Go by weight. It'll never lead you wrong.

[jgould]

Prices vary from place-to-place.  At the coffee roaster I go to, I can get any coffee I want from between 8.50 and 9.00 per pound.  If I go to a grocery store, I'm paying 11.00-14.00 per pound for crap.  Price depends on many factors.

For 24 ounces of finished coffee, I would expect 2 ounces of hold-up by the filter and coffee for starters, and see where you end up when you experiment from there.

For your volume question, that depends a lot on the grind, the alignment of Mars, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, and Uranus.  But, to produce 32 g of ground coffee, I start with 32 g.  On my conical tubes that I carry my coffee to work in, it ends up at about 45-50 ml of ground coffee per 12-ounce cup, so you will want between 90-100 ml of ground coffee.

I get this coming to about 6.7 ~=7 Tbsp of coffee.

Go by weight.  It'll never lead you wrong.

←

mr. solomon, u are good; but,

how many level Tbsps = 32g?

[jsolomon]

Prices vary from place-to-place.  At the

Go by weight.  It'll never lead you wrong.

←

mr. solomon, u are good; but,

how many level Tbsps = 32g?

←

See, that's the problem. Density (weight per unit volume) for packed things isn't a constant function. Based on size and other variables, they pack differently. That's why your cereal box, while full to the top at the factory (or close) is never full when you get it home.

Likewise, differences in particulate size, humidity, and amount of static electricity from the grinding process will cause your ground coffee to pack differently each time, so it's really difficult to give you a general rule for fresh ground coffee.

However, the weight will never change. 32 grams in will give you 32 grams out. Check out The Kitchen Scale Manifesto in the recipegullet.

[jgould]

Prices vary from place-to-place.  At the

Go by weight.  It'll never lead you wrong.

←

mr. solomon, u are good; but,

how many level Tbsps = 32g?

←

"See, that's the problem. Density (weight per unit volume) for packed things isn't a constant function. Based on size and other variables, they pack differently. That's why your cereal box, while full to the top at the factory (or close) is never full when you get it home.

Likewise, differences in particulate size, humidity, and amount of static electricity from the grinding process will cause your ground coffee to pack differently each time, so it's really difficult to give you a general rule for fresh ground coffee.

However, the weight will never change. 32 grams in will give you 32 grams out. " Check out The Kitchen Scale Manifesto in the recipegullet.

←

warning!!! do not be offended by this reply!

rhetorically speaking "why does it take so many posts, replies, counter replies to answer relatively simple questions?" & why is it that egullet, which prides itself on food expertise, lack so few?

take for example my original questions:

1. to make 3 8oz cups of coffee (24oz of water?) from a french press, how many BODUN scoops should one pour into the press?

answer should have been, from the beginning: 4.6 scoops, without the rhetoric;

AND,

2. what measure of whole beans should one grind to produce the amount of coarsely ground coffee to = the 3 - 8oz cups of coffee??

answer = 1.13 oz (mass)

the answers were all given in apples & oranges answers - why?

1 of a number of gobblygook answers:

See, that's the problem. Density (weight per unit volume) for packed things isn't a constant function. Based on size and other variables, they pack differently. That's why your cereal box, while full to the top at the factory (or close) is never full when you get it home.

Likewise, differences in particulate size, humidity, and amount of static electricity from the grinding process will cause your ground coffee to pack differently each time, so it's really difficult to give you a general rule for fresh ground coffee.

its not worth the time:

mass/density: 1g = .035oz, 1oz = 28.3g; ergo > 32g = the answer requested of

1.13 oz's (mass, not volume) of burr ground coffee beans - c'est simple??

volume: 1 fluid oz (U.S.) = .125 cup = 2 Tbs; ergo > for 24oz (volume, not density) of coffee, i,e, 3 8ozcups - boil ~26oz of water.

as i stated above, these answers could have been produced in ONE reply, not the several incomplete back-&-forths!!!!!!! i find this pattern to be repeated over & over again in all categories of egullet. is this because egulleteers simply like to hear themselves babble??

i expect these comments will lead to being reported, with the proverbial chastising by the "moderator" or being flamed by others; but the truth usually wins out in the end, & then saner heads prevail.

as to the tone of the comments. i truly mean no disrespect nor malice, but after awhile, its gets somewhat aggravating to have to keep dumbing down until one just "possibly" or maybe "luckily" receives the answers to honestly posed questions.

Edited October 6, 2005 by jgould (log)

[jsolomon]

  warning!!! do not be offended by this reply!

←

Too late.

[jgould]

  warning!!! do not be offended by this reply!

←

Too late.

←

@ the very least, u do have a good sense of humor!