Burger helper

[divalasvegas]

Issues.

I found out today that the vintage trailer may not work in its raw form. I spoke to a guy today and he said that it can work only if I reinforce the floors. I need to gut it out anyway so this is not an issue.

My only concerns right now is that people may not take it seriously because it is not a brick and mortar. (could be seen as a fly by night). People in the past have done so many sketchy things in units like these (food trucks) that people may choose to go to an "established place"

As for the spot that I have found, it has a lot of driving traffic with alot of parking (its an empty parking lot) It just makes me wonder.

I have also found a brick and mortar (a real dump) for $500.00 a month. it is an old gas station. It would require alot of work and it still would not have any seating. It is also off the beaten path. It also cost more to do the things I want to do inside a building with codes and all. Also, who is to say that the landlord wont raise the rents.

If I continue with the trailer, Its mine and I can move it if need be and I am not sinking alot of money into someone eslses property. The only thing I will have to overcome is the stigma that goes along with mobile food units.

What are your thoughts.

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Hi Magus. I'm so glad to here that you are forging ahead with your plans. I must address your last point first. Regarding your use of a trailer, which I think is a spectacular idea, what stigma are you speaking of? Are people where you live snobbish about such things? Unless I missed it upthread, it's not clear on the kind of demographic you expect: working class, immigrants, minorities, basic middle class good guys/gals, the rich and terminally hip? Or a mixture of all of the above? I can only say that a trailer would not deter me whatsoever. The only thing that would deter me right up front about any eating establishment is hygiene and it sounds that you have that covered, due to your previous successful experiences. Frankly I think that with those wonderful smells billowing in the air of burgers sizzling, people will be flocking to Old Number 9 like lemmings.

Go with your gut and I think your gut its telling you to go with the trailer. Sounds like the "brick and mortar" may be more headache, and money, for you than it's worth.

As usual Shalmanese's comments are dead on.

Also, once you have established a set menu--do you have an idea of what the final menu will look like, btw?--would you consider serving burgers in different sizes, a la a mini-size like a "White Castle"-type burger; a regular 4 or 5 ounce burger; and maybe a monster burger, 8-10 ounces? This would be down the road, after you are well established, of course.

One request: could I be the first egulleteer to have a burger named after me? The "divalasvegas" burger could have so many tasty possibilities!

All the best to you.

[rickster]

A very successful hot dog place in Connecticut got its start as a truck - but they eventually took it to a bricks and mortar location.

One thing's been troubling me a bit about this concept. You're in Michigan, where it gets pretty cold and snowy in the winter. You're also cooking to order. Have you factored in people's willingness to wait in below freezing temperatures for the burgers? If they're waiting in cars, how do you let them know the food's ready? They'll wait at a football game because you have sort of a captive audience - they're outside anyway. I worry that potential customers may choose comfort over quality in the middle of January.

[Magus]

Hi Magus.  I'm so glad to here that you are forging ahead with your plans.  I must address your last point first.  Regarding your use of a trailer, which I think is a spectacular idea, what stigma are you speaking of?  Are people where you live snobbish about such things?  Unless I missed it upthread, it's not clear on the kind of demographic you expect: working class, immigrants, minorities, basic middle class good guys/gals, the rich and terminally hip?  Or a mixture of all of the above?

I would say all of the above. I have huge population of college students as well.

The only thing that would deter me right up front about any eating establishment is hygiene and it sounds that you have that covered, due to your previous successful experiences.

Well, my thoughts for employees is this: IF YOU HAVE TIME TO LEAN YOU HAVE TIME TO CLEAN. I hate mess. Personaly, if I am not cooking, I'm cleaning and I expect the same of others. I mean really, who wants to eat with trash around. Its like serving a good steak on a garbage can lid.

Go with your gut and I think your gut its telling you to go with the trailer.  Sounds like the "brick and mortar" may be more headache, and money, for you than it's worth.

Well, that is one of the great things about growing up poor. You learn to do alot with very little shoestrining is not something that is learned it becomes a way of life.

Also, once you have established a set menu--do you have an idea of what the final menu will look like,

This is a work in progress.

btw?--would you consider serving burgers in different sizes, a la a mini-size like a "White Castle"-type burger; a regular 4 or 5 ounce burger; and maybe a monster burger, 8-10 ounces?  This would be down the road, after you are well established, of course.

There are so many possibilites at this point.

I wanted to start out with the basics though. I want to have one size ball of meat and add patties as they order them.

One request: could I be the first egulleteer to have a burger named after me?    The "divalasvegas" burger could have so many tasty possibilities!

The Diva burger...the burger that is dressed to the 9's

But all kidding aside... making up names for foods is the hardest part.

I dont want to "copy" anyones name because someday...with alot of hard work and the aid of Lady Luck, these names will become trade marks.

I am so open to ideas for names.

[Magus]

rickster,Oct 12 2005, 04:11 PM]

A very successful hot dog place in Connecticut got its start as a truck - but they eventually took it to a bricks and mortar location.

Well, I want to do the same. I figured that I can do it this way first, keep this open then open a brick and mortar. This way I am building my name, my brand and flavor. Then when I do open a brick and mortar, I wont have to sit back and hope that people will come and try my food. Since I am using my own money, I only want to take calculated risk.

One thing's been troubling me a bit about this concept. You're in Michigan, where it gets pretty cold

Correction, it is the arm pit of old man winter!!

You're also cooking to order. Have you factored in people's willingness to wait in below freezing temperatures for the burgers?

Yup its called call ahead. Or I can just shut down for the winter months.

Being closed for 3-4 months is not bad.

If they're waiting in cars, how do you let them know the food's ready?

The order number will go in the reciept, when the order is ready it will display electronicly in the window.

I worry that potential customers may choose comfort over quality in the middle of January.

They may have to wait until March or April.

But I will have to burn that burger when I get to it.

[MarketStEl]

Issues.

I found out today that the vintage trailer may not work in its raw form. I spoke to a guy today and he said that it can work only if I reinforce the floors. I need to gut it out anyway so this is not an issue.

My only concerns right now is that people may not take it seriously because it is not a brick and mortar. (could be seen as a fly by night). People in the past have done so many sketchy things in units like these (food trucks) that people may choose to go to an "established place"

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

(The place described in the link is a genuine institution in Providence, R.I. You are on track to become one in your city if you stick to your plan.)

As for the spot that I have found, it has a lot of driving traffic with alot of parking (its an empty parking lot) It just makes me wonder.

Set up some tables and chairs in that parking lot. You will need them. As for ambience, I refer you to my earlier response to your question about music. Mix it up and you may even give some of your customers a history lesson!

I have also found a brick and mortar (a real dump) for $500.00 a month. it is an old gas station. It would require alot of work and it still would not have any seating. It is also off the beaten path. It also cost more to do the things I want to do inside a building with codes and all. Also, who is to say that the landlord wont raise the rents.

If I continue with the trailer, Its mine and I can move it if need be and I am not sinking alot of money into someone eslses property. The only thing I will have to overcome is the stigma that goes along with mobile food units.

What are your thoughts.

←

Stick to that trailer. It's distinctive and it will broadcast your uniqueness to passers-by. Diners--and at heart, what we are talking about here is a classic diner, only this one specializes in just one item--rise and fall on their food and their staff, not on their appearance (well, they do have to look neat and clean in most cases). Since it sounds like you've got the location thing taken care of, if you do the food and the 'tude right--and you've already mastered both, judging from your accounts of your game-day business--nobody will worry about the food-truck stigma.

Edited to add: One more thing--as your firm opening date approaches, be sure to hand out flyers or cards advertising your new fixed location to everyone who patronizes your game-day stand. You will have an instant established customer base--something a budding restaurateur would kill for.

Edited October 13, 2005 by MarketStEl (log)

[Gary]

Zingerman's in Ann Arbor operates a trailer outside their Roadhouse restaurant. I've not been there but it might be worth checking out if you haven't already.

It sounds similar in nature to what you are planning. Click herefor details.

They describe it as follows:

"In any case the Roadshow is a built-in-1952, Spartan Aircraft Company's All-Aluminum Trailercoach that we've set up to serve early morning coffee and cappuccino, Bakehouse pastries and breads. We're also out there for lunch with a menu of sandwiches, soups and soft drinks. You can even pick-up a loaf of bread to take home for dinner! When you stop by, ask about our Fridge to Fridge Menu. We've come up with some special selections intended to go from our fridge to yours, prepared by us, and ready for you to heat and serve."

[Magus]

Well, It is final. The old trailer won't work for my application. It will take to much time and money and there are ALOT of uncertainties. The major issue is saftey and public health.

My research told me this:

What to expect from a 50 yr old trailer

These trailers have the following issues (that are a constant battle)

Mice and there droppings. (behind the walls and such)

Rusting under frame

Rotting floor

phantom leaks, leaks, and more leaks. (comes from the expanding and contracting of metal over the years.

small wheel base (can tip over and need reinforcing)

(this came form people who own them and are spending god loads of money restoring them)

I was kind of disappointed for about 5 min. But my goals is written in stone and my plans are written in sand. Onward!!

So off to plan B. Now I just need to do some more research on the cargo trailer that I want and start the transformation. Im going to go with the cargo trailer because it is built for what I want to do and is more sound structurally. it will be alot easier to have something new look old in apearance vs. having something old with issues that I dont want to deal with.

Great food, Great taste...always the main focus.

Edited October 13, 2005 by Magus (log)

[Magus]

I have been looking for burger names that old restaurants used in the past. I was unsucessfull. It doesn't seem that they went through alot of special names.

I have been thinking about the entire look of the plan B trailer for the past couple of days. I was going to play off of the retro look of the trailer...you know, to take people back. This is going to be tricker than I first thought.

If I cant pull off the retro feel with the shape of the trailer, can this be done with the color of the trailer?

[TPO]

Sorry to hear about the trailer problems. For the record, I don't think you need brick and mortar because (1) the stigma of "fly by night" is more likely to be applied to a van, not a trailer; and (2) I know vans that sell good food and they have lunch lines out into the street.

But how about trying to find a reasonably priced dining car for sale and moving it to Michigan? I don't know how much that would cost, but it might be worth looking into. As you can see, these are very popular on the east coast, but I see no reason one couldn't work in Michigan.

[Magus]

Sorry to hear about the trailer problems. For the record, I don't think you need brick and mortar because (1) the stigma of "fly by night" is more likely to be applied to a van, not a trailer; and (2) I know vans that sell good food and they have lunch lines out into the street.

But how about trying to find a reasonably priced dining car for sale and moving it to Michigan? I don't know how much that would cost, but it might be worth looking into. As you can see, these are very popular on the east coast, but I see no reason one couldn't work in Michigan.

←

Well, my first thought was to try and buy one of the "red bird" subway cars from New York. I could not find a source. I did find that they dump them in the bottom of the ocean to make a reef.

[divalasvegas]

I have been looking for burger names that old restaurants used in the past. I was unsucessfull. It doesn't seem that they went through alot of special names.

I have been thinking about the entire look of the plan B trailer for the past couple of days. I was going to play off of the retro look of the trailer...you know, to take people back. This is going to be tricker than I first thought.

If I cant pull off the retro feel with the shape of the trailer, can this be done with the color of the trailer?

←

Hello again Magus. Sorry to hear that Plan A fell through, but I was totally unsurprised that you have a plan B. You seem to be someone with a can-do spirit.

As for your answer to my suggestion for naming your burger after my screen moniker,

The Diva burger...the burger that is dressed to the 9's 

Dressed to the 9's as in the Original Number 9!? Hmmmm.

I love the color scheme of your logo. Would it be too over the top to adapt that to the exterior colors of the cargo trailer? The logo could be on the side of the trailer done with a white background using the antiqued gold and burgundy red for a border and the lettering.

You have my deepest admiration and best wishes.

[Magus]

Well, I could paint the trailer in the same yellow of the logo. My brother owns a body shop...It would make it stand out and it would be that funky yellow color of the refrigerator that I just got rid of

[Magus]

Hello again Magus.  Sorry to hear that Plan A fell through, but I was totally unsurprised that you have a plan B.  You seem to be someone with a can-do spirit.

Well...life will ALWAYS kick you when your down...to see if you got the balls to get back up and fight. I cant go down in the first round

Edited October 15, 2005 by Magus (log)

[Magus]

Game Day Burgers :

SOLD OUT!!!

What a great, exhausting, knock down, drag out day!

200 burgers,

This time, the people who were in the back of the line last lat game came early and brought two and three at a time. They would buy some, stand to the side and eat them, then get back in line.

People came early!! ...REAL EARLY. I cant wait until I start serving fresh ground burgers!!!

Now on to the stuff that threw me off. People started asking for double and tripple burgers...thoes were not on the menu. I kindly told them that doubles and tripples were not on the menu...Then the kept insisting on ordering them. so I charged them accordingly. Not a big deal though, we only had about 20 request for them.

I am still tired.

[MarketStEl]

Now on to the stuff that threw me off. People started asking for double and tripple burgers...thoes were not on the menu.  I kindly told them that doubles and tripples were not on the menu...Then the kept insisting  on ordering them. so I charged them accordingly. Not a big deal though, we only had about 20 request for them.

I am still tired. 

←

1) Your customers are telling you something. Besides, even the people who didn't ask for doubles and triples got them anyway, one patty at a time, it appears. Better order more ground beef for your next game.

2) Yes, but it's a good tired. Sort of the way I felt after handling the ribs for a party to which a friend of mine had invited 50 people, and most of them showed.

[Shalmanese]

Game Day  Burgers :    

SOLD OUT!!!

What a great, exhausting, knock down, drag out day!

200 burgers,

This time, the people who were in the back of the line last lat game came early and  brought two and three at a time. They would buy some, stand to the side and eat them, then get back in line.

People came early!! ...REAL EARLY. I cant wait until I start serving fresh ground burgers!!!

Now on to the stuff that threw me off. People started asking for double and tripple burgers...thoes were not on the menu.  I kindly told them that doubles and tripples were not on the menu...Then the kept insisting  on ordering them. so I charged them accordingly. Not a big deal though, we only had about 20 request for them.

I am still tired. 

←

If your this tired now, you better not disclose your location to egulleteers, otherwise your arms are going to fall off .

[Magus]

I am in the thinking process of opening. I think a website will be a good tool for the following.

1. When people see any new place opening, they may wonder..."hows the food" I was thinking about having a section in the website so people could share their eating experiences with the world (good or not so good). This way, I can keep doing what the cusomers like and change some of the things they dont. Almost like an e-bay approval rate.

I wont be able to please everyone but at least everyone will see that I will be far from perfect, but always trying.

Also, I can have a tasting. This will cost some money, but people will be able to taste the food without having to shell out any bucks up front.

Also, I think the website will be great so people can find the different locations.

The website can expand as I expand, Online menu, online ordering, wierless web interface etc. I figure even if I just have the website act as a score card that would be fine.

[Magus]

Give it a name.

I have been thinking about the name. If I call it No.9 Hamburgers, this sort of locks me in to just serving burgers. I want to keep No.9 because it is special to me. Someday, this will move to a brick and mortar. I just dont think it will be wise to box myself in buy putting "hamburgers" in the name. It's not really a diner. dining car, and I dont plan to operate out of a trailer in the future.

If I put in the name "restaurant" then am not limited.

What are your thoughts.

Any name suggestions?

Edited October 26, 2005 by Magus (log)

[Chris Amirault]

Why not just No. 9? Or "The Original No. 9"? Has a bit of mystery. People will know it's food and not widgets, believe me!

[MarketStEl]

I am in the thinking process of opening. I think a website will be a good tool for the following.

1. When people see any new place opening, they may wonder..."hows the food" I was thinking about having a section in the website so people could share their eating experiences with the world (good or not so good). This way, I can keep doing what the cusomers like and change some of the things they dont. Almost like an e-bay approval rate.

I wont be able to please everyone but at least everyone will see that I will be far from perfect, but always trying.

Also, I can have a tasting. This will cost some money, but people will be able to taste the food without having to shell out any bucks up front.

Also, I think the website will be great so people can find the different locations.

The website can expand as I expand, Online menu, online ordering, wierless web interface etc. I figure even if I just have the website act as a score card that would be fine.

←

You're thinking ahead--that's good.

You're also thinking a bit ahead of yourself in the short run. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but at the start, you should focus on the basics.

Applied to your Web site, that means you should start out with not much more than basic information about your restaurant: Location, hours, menu, philosophy, contact information. Be sure to include some lovely pornographic shots of your burgers if you can afford to hire a professional food photographer. If you can't, maybe you have a friend with a good eye for photography and a digital camera? I know there are discussions about food photography elsewhere on eG; you might want to post to one of those as well.

As for soliciting comments online, I would be wary of setting up an online guestbook or bulletin board. Without some way for you to remove malicious posts, you leave yourself open to people "hacking" your site and posting material that would damage your image and reputation. Better to simply provide an e-mail link on your site and post your fan mail and critiques on a page you alone can edit.

The same caution applies to an online scorecard. If you were thinking about putting up an online form for your customers to rate you, I'd suggest you lie down until that urge passes. You would have the same vulnerability that you'd have with a guestbook, only this time in the form of people buzzing by your pages and filling out the form with bogus ratings. I would prepare a customer comment card for your patrons to fill out on the spot or take with them to fill out later; you could put on the card a Web page address that is not linked from any of the other pages on your site.

The tasting is a good idea. I would probably do it in the form of a "grand opening celebration" not long after your business is up and running. You could give everybody who came in that day a free burger and fries, or just a burger--or you could have your patrons present a coupon to get one as a sort of marketing test. I'd probably go for the straight giveaway, especially if your ad budget is limited; to do the coupon version right, you'd need to take out ads in your local papers, print a bunch of flyers with coupons on them, and pay people to hand out the flyers.

As for the name, I half-second Chris Amirault. But I see nothing wrong with referring to your place as a burger joint at the outset; that certainly didn't keep McDonald's from expanding its menu over the years! You can--as Mickey D's did--simply drop the word "hamburgers" from your name as you grow.

[TPO]

I go to restaurant websites hoping for locations, hours, directions, menu, and pictures. I have seen some sites with message boards but never paid much attention to the comments.

One problem with allowing comments is that if robots find your site, they will post all sorts of links to sites you don't want to be associated with, and/or eat up your bandwidth and cost you a fortune. This happened to me recently.

I like the tasting idea, or even a free (couponless) offer such as free fries with the purchase of a burger.

As for the name, I don't see why the offical name can't be "The Original No. 9" while keeping "Hamburgers" or "Burgers & Shakes" on the logo as a desription. Then it could change to "Restaurant" as you expand, but while you are offering mainly burgers & shakes people will know what to expect. I have been to restaurants like that, where something like "Pizzaria & Restaurant" or "Pasta & More" are sometimes tacked onto the name even though they aren't part of the official name.

[Shalmanese]

Oh, and if you build your site in flash, I will hunt you down and kick you in the crotch... hard!

That is all.

[Magus]

Thoughts.

What do you think of when you hear the word

"Burger Bar"

The Original No.9....Burger Bar

Also,

Since I have the space already. I was thinking of doing the following:

I have a "hot dog cart" that I converted into a Burger cart.

I was thinking of starting with this cart and selling burgers from there.

This will help me get my taste out to more people.

The only dawback woudl be that it will be a very limited menu.

Burgers, chips and soda.

Or, should I wait until I have the food trailer.

[Pan]

Thoughts.

What do you think of when you hear the word

"Burger Bar"

The Original No.9....Burger Bar[...]

←

When I hear that, I think you're serving liquor or at least you have a brew 'n burger type of place.

[Magus]

Thanks Pan

Just needed a second brain on this one