Big Apple Barbecue Block Party 2005

[Bux]

Okay, from the official http://www.bigapplebbq.org/ site, you can get more information and on it, there's no mention of needing a Gold AmEx card to order the Bubba Fast Pass which sells for $100 + $2.50 for shipping. Shipping may be dicey at this time with less than a week to go. 212 447 7733 is the number to call for more info.

The site promises faster lines and the ability to pay for your food at the pitmaster tents. There will also be a few more pits. That should help reduce the time waiting in line. A weather forcast of isolated thunderstorms and scattered showers may also be a forecast of shorter lines.

As I see it, one draw back of using the Fast Pass for several people is that they can't all stand on several lines at the same time. Last year, three of us got on three different lines while one of us took care of the baby and and kept the spot on the grass warm.

A plate of 'cue with a side is advertised as going for $7. There was beer available last year and I suppose soft drinks. I assume the Pass is good for beverages as well as food.

There are some interesting seminars. On Saturday, they're supposedly showing a documentry film with Dan Rather and Ann Richards. There'll be a panel afterwards with Rather, the filmaker and a few others. There's also a $25 wine tasting with Danny Meyer -- Wine for Swine. Texas brisket probably qualifies as swine, Danny doesn't.

On Sunday, a bunch of New York residents with some degree of authority in the matter will discuss or defend the concept of NYC BBQ. A Steven Shaw (eGullet.com) is named twice. That could be for his importance, his size or simply as compensation for not upgrading to .org. There's yet another panel discussion for down home eating outside NYC with yet another group of interesting people. It seems a rather lopsided balance. Full list of participants at the above mentioned site. Probably two interesting panels, though they may not be enough to draw people from the food tents.

[Fat Guy]

i don't understand how friday night is working..  is takes hours to smoke the food..  i'm assuming the permit to close down madison ave won't be until friday night, and i'm pretty sure they'll be waiting to load the space ASAP..  so how exactly are they going to have the pitmaster's food at blue smoke??  and why would anyone pay $150 for samples of this, when you can have all you want on saturday and sunday??

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I don't know the specifics of the logistics, but presumably they've got things timed out and organized so that they can have limited preview quantities of food ready throughout Friday evening. Whether that means they have some temporary spots for the apparatus for Friday day (like enough space for Ed Mitchell to smoke one pig), or what, I couldn't guess. In terms of the value, this event doesn't strike me as a value proposition. I'd suggest that, if you're the type of person to whom $150 is no big deal, the Friday event is a nice way to buy yourself some exclusivity and access to the pits, the pitmasters, etc.

[juuceman]

Okay, from the official http://www.bigapplebbq.org/ site, you can get more information and on it, there's no mention of needing a Gold AmEx card to order the Bubba Fast Pass which sells for $100 + $2.50 for shipping.

when you call to order they check your customer service number against those of the gold and higher cards, kind of like the hold card seating that Amex offers.

i don't understand how forcing the stands to make change for everyone on line is going to speed things up at all.. the coupons were about the only saving grace of the line speed, and this year they're also going to accept credit cards, presumably at the stands.. unless they rethink this one, and sell tickets at a separate booth, plan to be waiting a whole lot longer, even though there will be ten booths as opposed to the seven (??) in years past..

the bracelet is supposed to allow one access to the express lines.. you can pickup two bracelets with the pass..

the pass can be used for both food and beverages, as per the website you link to above as well as the people taking care of the passes at bluesmoke.. three of you can still get on line and you can each pay with cash or a credit card.. that's going to be a disaster though.. i'm predicting lines longer than ever due to this 'improvement'..

bad weather is unlikely to change the number of people turning out.. the first year it rained throughout most of the day and the streets were still packed..

the problem this event has is crowd control.. the line setup hasn't made any sort of sense, there's been little crowd control or signage directing people where to go, and it's been overcrowded.. it seems like the additional space should help out a bit, but i think taking away the centralized pay system, and forcing people to pay at the individual booths will slow this thing down to a crawl.. i hope they don't really do this..

[Bux]

when you call to order they check your customer service number against those of the gold and higher cards, kind of like the hold card seating that Amex offers..

. . . .

the bracelet is supposed to allow one access to the express lines..  you can pickup two bracelets with the pass..

the pass can be used for both food and beverages, as per the website you link to above as well as the people taking care of the passes at bluesmoke..  three of you can still get on line and you can each pay with cash or a credit card..

. . . .

it seems like the additional space should help out a bit, but i think taking away the centralized pay system, and forcing people to pay at the individual booths will slow this thing down to a crawl..  i hope they don't really do this..

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The Gold card thing is interesting because it's not mentioned on the Big Apple Block Party site. They mention the Pass and give the phone number. I wonder if they won't have some irate callers.

Three people on three lines should be assemble a selection faster than one person with one card having to wait on three lines. If they offer two bracelets, but only one card, only one person can order food at a time. Possibly the Pass express lines will move three times as fast.

As for additional space, I wonder if the distance from Fifth to Madison Avenues isn't almost as great as that from 23 to 26 Streets. Madison Avenue is probably wider than 26th Street though.

I'm not sure how the Pass will work. My guess is that it's a preloaded cash card. Those things have a name. I don't know what that is, but that's going to require every pit tent to have a credit card machine. Don't forget the event is sponsored by AmEx and this is a good opportunity for them to push this technology. My guess is that they'll be pushing this sort of loaded card and selling the technology as superior to having people buy tickets at the fair. Their sponsorship probably is what enables them to test the product here.

[Fat Guy]

This year, for the first time, the BABBP is being organized by a professional event organizing company that is not the Union Square Hospitality Group (although the USHG is still very much involved and everybody reports to them). I've had some dealings with this company on account of being a moderator of one of the panels and they seem extremely professional. I think these folks have a lot of experience with large events and the logistics problems they present, so while there's a possibility all this new line and technology stuff has been ill-conceived I think the higher likelihood is that it will represent an improvement.

[juuceman]

cool.. my fingers are crossed.. any chance you feel comfortable sharing the name of the event planning company??

[Fat Guy]

Absolutely, if I can remember it.

[Fat Guy]

Okay it's called Karlitz & Company. http://karlitz.com/

[zimonsays]

I think its BS that they did not invite Paul Kirk this year. He was really one of the highhlights and the food was great. maybe Rub is rubbing Mr Meyers the wrong way!! Stealing a little of his thunder... Its good to see some healthy competion but come on..

[Jason Perlow]

I think its BS that they did not invite Paul Kirk this year. He was really one of the highhlights and the food was great. maybe Rub is rubbing Mr Meyers the wrong way!! Stealing a little of his thunder... Its good to see some healthy competion but come on.

Kirk was invited last year before his restaurant was operational and Dino was not. This year, Dino is being given a chance, and I think that is only fair.

[Fat Guy]

Are you sure Paul Kirk was not invited? All I know is that he's not going to be there. Maybe he was invited and said no. What's everybody's source on this?

[Fat Guy]

Guys, where are you getting all this information about who was and wasn't invited? Don't you think it's at least possible that Paul Kirk was invited and declined, on account of needing to run his newly opened restaurant? I'll try to find out, but until I do or somebody with actual information comes to the table how about we focus on what we know and not on supposition?

[Burt1961]

Guys, where are you getting all this information about who was and wasn't invited? Don't you think it's at least possible that Paul Kirk was invited and declined, on account of needing to run his newly opened restaurant? I'll try to find out, but until I do or somebody with actual information comes to the table how about we focus on what we know and not on supposition?

A quick call to RUB by you should answer the question. I find it hard to fathom that the owner of a new restaurant would turn down the exposure an event like this offers.

[Jaymes]

This just in:  Bryan Bracewell of Southside Market & BBQ in Elgin, Texas ... on board.

For any of you not familiar with these folks, they are legendary for their sausage (also known as 'hot links,' and 'hot guts,' in Texas). In fact, you just have to say "Elgin sausage" and everybody knows you're talking about Southside Market.

And they make pretty good brisket as well. But those hot links are their claim to (considerable) fame.

Aside: The name of the town, Elgin, is pronounced with a hard "G." That's because years ago, the matriarch of the Elgin family (the original settlers after whom the town is named) changed the pronounciation from the more familiar soft "G."

She was a teetotaler, and anti-booze crusader. It just really frosted her to have to say the word "gin" every time she said her name.

[Fat Guy]

A quick call to RUB by you should answer the question.  I find it hard to fathom that the owner of a new restaurant would turn down the exposure an event like this offers.

I've put in a call to the event organizers. How about you pick up the phone and call RUB? First person to get information posts it here.

[Burt1961]

A quick call to RUB by you should answer the question.  I find it hard to fathom that the owner of a new restaurant would turn down the exposure an event like this offers.

I've put in a call to the event organizers. How about you pick up the phone and call RUB? First person to get information posts it here.

I called RUB and spoke to Andrew. He said no invite.

[Fat Guy]

I just got off the phone with Jenny at Danny Meyer's office, and got the same information. The organization felt there were a limited number of spaces for New York pitmasters and that they needed to share the platform.

Also got some additional information on the logistics of the Friday night event. The barbecue being served on Friday night by the out-of-town pitmasters will be brought in from their restaurants. So, for example, Ed Mitchell's semi truck will leave North Carolina in the morning carrying barbecue that was cooked down there overnight Thursday night. Of course the local pitmasters will be cooking locally.

[Burt1961]

I just got off the phone with Jenny at Danny Meyer's office, and got the same information. The organization felt there were a limited number of spaces for New York pitmasters and that they needed to share the platform.

Also got some additional information on the logistics of the Friday night event. The barbecue being served on Friday night by the out-of-town pitmasters will be brought in from their restaurants. So, for example, Ed Mitchell's semi truck will leave North Carolina in the morning carrying barbecue that was cooked down there overnight Thursday night. Of course the local pitmasters will be cooking locally.

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I'm guessing that Blue Smoke will not participate next year so that they can make room for Daisy May's or Ranger Texas Barbecue. Clearly, Blue Smoke doesn't fit into the mix with name recognition of their Pit Master. I'm sure Kenny Callaghan is one of the first names that pop into people's head when they think world class barbecue. It boarders on farce to say that the organizers have collected the best Pit Masters in the country and have not invited Paul Kirk. I stand by my previous statement that Danny Meyers doesn't like the idea that Kirk is stealing some of his thunder in the NYC BBQ scene.

[Varmint]

On that note, one could argue it's farce to have Ed Mitchell return for this event year after year. Many people like Ed Mitchell's barbecue, but there aren't a lot of people in North Carolina who would say that he's the best pitmaster of them all. This is a lot of promotion that Ed Mitchell has wisely pushed, but it certainly doesn't even represent the plurality opinion, let alone a consensus.

I also think it's appropriate for the New York restaurants to have some rotating schedule for barbecue restaurants. Space is limited, so allow others to share the stage. I understand that you may think Blue Smoke should step aside, but on that note, this event wa Danny Meyer's creation, wasn't it?

[Burt1961]

On that note, one could argue it's farce to have Ed Mitchell return for this event year after year.  Many people like Ed Mitchell's barbecue, but there aren't a lot of people in North Carolina who would say that he's the best pitmaster of them all.  This is a lot of promotion that Ed Mitchell has wisely pushed, but it certainly doesn't even represent the plurality opinion, let alone a consensus. 

I also think it's appropriate for the New York restaurants to have some rotating schedule for barbecue restaurants.  Space is limited, so allow others to share the stage.  I understand that you may think Blue Smoke should step aside, but on that note, this event wa Danny Meyer's creation, wasn't it?

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You are correct - It's Danny Meyer's bat and ball, and he gets to pick who he wants to play with.

As far as Ed Mitchell goes, he adds color to the event that most of these other guys just don't have. Having spent a little bit of time with him at the last event you would be hard pressed to find someone with as much personality. He was also one of the few guys, who like Paul Kirk, completely cooked their barbecue at the event.

[Fat Guy]

I think of Blue Smoke as the host establishment. There are numerous parallels across all sorts of events wherein the host gets a seat at the table that might not have been awarded purely on merit. I don't see anything wrong with that. Without Danny and the Blue Smoke crew, the event wouldn't exist. They've earned their permanent spot.

The idea of the event is, primarily, to bring in pitmasters from out of town, not to showcase ten New York City barbecue restaurants. So I can also sympathize with choosing one additional New York pitmaster each year on some sort of rotating basis.

And I really think the comments about Danny Meyer's fears and such are off base. Danny did Paul a huge solid by giving him so much exposure at last year's event -- he could have invited any number of other folks. In addition, Danny's organization has been a tireless promoter of barbecue culture in New York -- he is very much a member of the "rising tide lifts all boats" school of commerce and would, I'm sure, be thrilled to see ten more barbecue places open in New York each year. I assure you it wouldn't hurt Blue Smoke's business. The last three times I've tried to get a table at Blue Smoke I couldn't even get in.

[Burt1961]

I think of Blue Smoke as the host establishment. There are numerous parallels across all sorts of events wherein the host gets a seat at the table that might not have been awarded purely on merit. I don't see anything wrong with that. Without Danny and the Blue Smoke crew, the event wouldn't exist. They've earned their permanent spot.

The idea of the event is, primarily, to bring in pitmasters from out of town, not to showcase ten New York City barbecue restaurants. So I can also sympathize with choosing one additional New York pitmaster each year on some sort of rotating basis.

And I really think the comments about Danny Meyer's fears and such are off base. Danny did Paul a huge solid by giving him so much exposure at last year's event -- he could have invited any number of other folks. In addition, Danny's organization has been a tireless promoter of barbecue culture in New York -- he is very much a member of the "rising tide lifts all boats" school of commerce and would, I'm sure, be thrilled to see ten more barbecue places open in New York each year. I assure you it wouldn't hurt Blue Smoke's business. The last three times I've tried to get a table at Blue Smoke I couldn't even get in.

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Oh please... I'm sure John Stage and Kenny Callaghan are nice enough guys, but you cannot put them in the same league with Paul Kirk as far as Pit Masters goes. If you are inviting world-class Pit Masters, and you have one in your own back yard, why do you leave him off the invite list when they have invited back the same Pit Masters as last year and even added new ones. If you don't have him cook, why isn't he on a panel. I think Paul did Danny Meyers a big favor by participating in last years event. I wonder if Danny Meyers even knew that Paul was planning on opening a restaurant when he invited him last year.

PS - I didn't mention fear, you did. I just think Danny Meyers doesn't like his reign as the king of NYC BBQ threatened.

[juuceman]

Also got some additional information on the logistics of the Friday night event. The barbecue being served on Friday night by the out-of-town pitmasters will be brought in from their restaurants. So, for example, Ed Mitchell's semi truck will leave North Carolina in the morning carrying barbecue that was cooked down there overnight Thursday night. Of course the local pitmasters will be cooking locally.

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thanks for looking into this..

it's Meyer's joint.. look back five years- the only semi-serious barbecue offered in NYC was out at Legend's in Queens.. people would say you couldn't cook halfway decent stuff in NYC.. the others at the time were Tennessee Mountain, Virgils, and the oven roasted/baked spots, a la BBQ.. now these places don't even come close to top tier barbecue in the city.. a lot of this is attributable to Meyer.. while NY'ers whines about the lack of good stuff, he made it happen..

it is a bit interesting that there'll be overlap, i.e., guys doing the same stuff this year.. i believe that's a first..

Edited June 7, 2005 by juuceman (log)

[banquo]

On the official BigApple BBQ site list of pitmasters, there is no Kreuz Market. By contrast, the eGullet calendar lists them as coming. Does anyone know which one it is? I was very much looking forward to trying their brisket.

FYI: the Bubba Fast pass can be picked up at 'will call' tent during the event; so, no worries about getting it shipped to you on time.

[franktex]

I hope to see a detailed review of the event as well. I believe Fat Guy did one last year, and it was great. I hope to get there next year, as this life-long Texan here in Austin has to see for hisself crowds of people lining up for barbeque in NYC!

Actually, it's good to see the interest in food that I grew up on. I've met Ken from Blue Smoke at a couple of food festivals down here, and am looking forward to checking out his place, as well as some of the others that have opened up there.

And FYI Fat Guy- I see that 'Barbecue:A Texas Love Story'(http://www.bbqfilm.com/) is having a screening sometime this weekend there. I'd highly recommend checking it out if you get a chance.

Have fun everyone!