Various cocoa solids in dark chocolates

[Sebastian]

There's no shortage of fine chocolates today to be found from many suppliers. Many of them offer their products classified by cocoa solids content, and many of them do so in incriments that are fairly small, such as 50%, 54%, 58%, etc. I'm interested to see how those of you who are selecting your chocolates using cocoa solids as one of your criteria are using them. Especially those of you who are using multiple products that are slightly differientated from one another such as the above example. Do you find, for example, the 50% more desireable for baking, while the 54%'s more appropriate for mousses and ganaches? Do you like to make shelled materials with the very dark products that have very sweet centers, or would you rather bake with the very dark products? Inquiring minds want to know 8-)

So how about it - what products do you use, and why?

[Steve Klc]

There still can be a shortage of affordable and/or good chocolates to be found, Sebastian, since not every pastry chef can buy from every supplier--distribution is still the biggest roadblock and it'll depend on what market you're in. Buying chocolate can be like broadband cable sometimes--there's one vendor in a market and they have a monopoly--or they're pressuring you to buy ALL of your product from them. And there is certainly less, not more, competitive pricing between brands these days.

Across six restaurants I buy chocolates, nibs and cocoa powder from two different (competing) distributors. That's because I like to be different and to get my way. What I use for large scale dessert production hasn't really changed since we started eGullet--E. Guittard--but I have added Valrhona for milk and the 63% from Uster. Once Anil Rohira gave it to me last year I knew it was a special chocolate and knew I'd have to find reasons to use it.

I don't think I've actually used a 58% or less chocolate for anything in a few years. That's paying a pretty penny for all that sugar. I buy by taste first and am not concerned with the listed percentage, and at least to me there's too noticeable a difference between the 50-58% group, which all tastes like sugar dreck to me, and the 63 or so formulations, which actually taste like chocolate should taste, with sugar in the background. There are a few good 61%-63% I'm using at home and in the restaurants as general/all-purpose chocolates, right now alternating between the Albert Uster 63% Garnet and the E. Guittard 61%. We use these for our artistic/decorative stuff, too, since they both temper well and are fluid, some molding, shells, etc. I'm only doing one milk chocolate-based dessert in a restaurant and for that I use Valrhona Jivara. Otherwise, for most restaurant-based stuff like flans, cakes, creams, beverages, I'm using higher percentages, and my go-to higher % chocolate for the past few years has been the E. Guittard 72%--when Zaytinya opened in DC I arranged to have it brought into our market just so I could use it in our lead dessert, the Turkish Coffee, and it's stayed our number one seller ever since. (I should also tell you I add cocoa powder to a lot of "chocolate" preparations and have a few solely cocoa powder-based components as well.)

It can be a little tricky using a couverture (high cocoa butter content) in baking, but most of the stuff I do is gentle and baked either at low heat or baked quickly at very high heat. You just have to balance your overall fat percentage.

And it may not be the best idea to orient your request around percentage first--since a given percentage will vary from brand to brand--one brand will have more cocoa butter in their 58% and another will have significantly less cocoa butter in their 58%, and as a result one might be used for shells or enrobing and another might be better for ganache.

Hope that helps.

[Sebastian]

Thanks Steve. I've been asked by a fairly large pastry supplier to give a presentation on chocolates they're using, which they've picked specifically for their cocoa solids content, but they're really not all that different from one another. Of course I have my preferences and I know how I use them, but it's always interesting to me to see how others use them as well. I don't have the sense that a 54% is earnestly sought out for a particular use over a 50%, but I've been surprised before and i'll be surprised again 8-)

[scott123]

I find the term 'cocoa solids' to be very misleading. The perception is that that higher cocoa solid chocolate means darker chocolate. Nope. Not necessarily. Cocoa butter is a 'cocoa solid.' You can have high cocoa butter chocolates that are very pale/milky but still be considered high cocoa solid chocolate. What I'd like to see is labeling that showcases both the percentage of unseparated cocoa liquour and the percentage of added cocoa butter or added cocoa powder. That would really tell the whole story.

[Sebastian]

There is no regulatory definition of cocoa solids, which is part of the problem. The US has historically not paid much attention to this idea of cocoa solids, and whey they did, only the liquor/powder portions were counted. European convention is to include those, plus any cocoa butter. By and large, US folks have migrated to accepting of the European conventions. There are some places in Europe that do label %'s of ingredients on their labels (ie, chocolate liquor, 35%, cocoa butter, 8%, etc).

Perhaps looking at it the way the ice cream industry does - such as 'cocoa solids, non fat' would be more meaningful. That way you're excluding the cocoa butter contribution from the liquor, which can vary from liquor to liquor (not much, mind you, but it can be a few %).

[Steve Klc]

What Scott said, it all comes down to awareness--awareness on the part of the pastry/buyer knowing what to ask and awareness on the part of the distributor--of his product, its makeup, etc.

Regardless of what is on the label, there's nothing preventing any user from asking to see the cocoa butter% breakdown--if there isn't at least the "couverture" tipoff printed on the box or wrapping. It'll also be obvious once they melted a small sample of chocolate whether it is fluid or thick at appropriate temperature levels. Increasingly less tempered chocolate work is going on in restaurants these days anyway--it's being exposed as irrelevant or artifice, hotels are buying all that crap already made by the Chocolates a la cartes of the world, and the talent/skill level in Pastry departments are dropping with younger/less experienced/less-trained folks assuming the pastry/baking roles, especially in restaurants.

Of course, it's naive to expect that typical pastry ingredient salespeople care about the quality of the chocolate they sell--and that they're selling particular chocolates because they are excellent chocolates. They don't care what you buy for what reason just that you buy something from them and they get their markup.

Most distributors would rather you focus in on a percentage or the presumed cachet of a brand, because then you're not focusing in on what you should be: comparative taste, performance, value. The last thing a distributor wants is you to be an empowered, critical, aware buyer. It's easier to talk and sell percentage or brand recognition than it is for them to meaningfully discuss taste or process or performance with you. "I can give you this 58% for xyz a pound versus the 58% you're currently buying from my arch rival." "You mean I can save 35 cents a pound?" That's the language of distributors.

The reality is most people working in the trenches are forced to buy the cheapest most-widely-distributed most industrialized bulk-produced chocolates. Those of us who aren't, are very lucky.

[aidensnd2]

Well said.

[tan319]

Great stuff in here, just wanted to add my 2 cents in.

Taste is everything, isn't it?

I don't use lower percentages much anymore, nothing lower then 58%, unless it's the E. Guittard 55%, which remains very impressive to me.

My 58% preference right now is the El Rey one, pistoles if possible.

A very profound chocolate.

I use it in a flourless chocolate brownie I do, based on the Conticini recipe.

I use 2/3rds 58% and 1/3 Tanzania, the 75% Origine Cocoa Barry chocolate, just for some added depth and complexity, otherwise I still feel it's too sweet.

My higher percentage chocolates used are still Valrhona, the Grand Crus,mainly the 70% Guanaja and the 64% Manjari with an occasional trip into the Pur Caribe, their 66% Grand Cru chocolate.

All of these satisfy my thirst for distinctiveness but even then I find myself blending these to arrive at a final flavor profile, say, using the Manjari as my main flavor note of acidity but rounding it out with the Guanaja, so it has a nice finish.

My chocolate souffle recipe has been really successful using this method.

This, of course, get's rather expensive but, as Steve says, we are incredibly lucky when we get to use these products.

If I could find E. Guittard easier, I would have hardly any reservations at all in using their 55, 61 and 72% products, I enjoy them very much.

I have switched my milks around a lot, mainly using a Cocoa Noel 35% or the El Rey 45%, that I really enjoy.

I ended up not being very much in love with the Valrhona Jivara,more malt notes and less caramel to it to me.

There you go!

[Steve Klc]

So Ted, if you attended this presentation, how far would Sebastian get with you if he led with cocoa solid percentage as his hook? Would you lock up, essentially, if he led with a tasting through the 50 to 58 range? After all, he said initially "I'm interested to see how those of you who are selecting your chocolates using cocoa solids as one of your criteria are using them. Especially those of you who are using multiple products that are slightly differientated from one another"

and Sebastian, since you've revealed "you've been asked by a fairly large pastry supplier to give a presentation on chocolates they're using, which they've picked specifically for their cocoa solids content," maybe we can help you with how you might try to position them for your demo and help you find differences between them. That's because even slightly less good chocolates can be used to create terrific desserts. That can be the reality of chocolate once it is blended with other flavors and ingredients. Who are we talking about and which products? What's your plan for your presentation so far--are you creating a few things to taste? Who will comprise your audience?

The thing is--I think at one level of customer you cannot sell between that 50-58% range except based on price--yet at another level maybe the best thing you could offer to the supplier is your expertise (with our confirmation) to say to their audience, and then back it up with examples, just how they could use a more expensive chocolate AND still be just as profitable if not more so because it goes further, can be upscaled, can bring value-added and tangible benefits, etc.

[Sebastian]

The group will consist of 13 sales people, all of which are trained chocolatiers. They've asked for a technical presentation, will have no kitchen facilities available, so it'll have to be all powerpoint and discussion. The chocolates are all Belgian and origin, perfectly good high end chocolates, but to be honest I'm a bit confused as to why, out of all the possibilities they could choose to carry, they selected three that are fairly low solids and fairly close to one another. I do not claim to be an expert in all things pastry related, hence my cry for help here, thinking perhaps those of you who are experts in all things pastry would be able to help me better understand where they might be coming from in so selecting those types of chocolates (again to me, it doesn't make sense). Price is not likely to be a motivating factor here...in my (limited) pastry experience, as well in my industrial experience (i have much more of that), I simply haven't run across customer demand for products that are so narrowly differientiated from one another...

[Wendy DeBord]

What you've just pointed out Sebastin is very logical, can you actually ask them why they did choose to sell 3 chocolates that are so similar?....with-out insulting them of course......... Their answer seems to be the key to me, based on what you've written.

I've avoided responding to this thread because I don't have the luxury of working with multiple lines of chocolate. Unfortunately I buy chocolate based equally on price and taste. I can talk my chef into NOT buying the cheapest line but I couldn't begin to be lucky enough to have multiple boxes of the same type of chocolate in different percentages to play with, yet alone from multiple manufactors.

I'm probably the ideal pc that they want to sell to. I still get confused by percentages of which and what. Oh I've read enough on chocolate (by now) that I should have a decent handle on this.........but then I really think that I'm attracted to the cocoa butter content or at least the liquidity of a chocolate in how it melts in my mouth or it's handling properties more then the solids when I'm choosing chocolates that I like. I'm buying chocolate that's 1. going to mixed in with other ingredients that are going to greatly effect the over all taste. Or 2. I'm buying chocolate for candys or coating items and there I really want handling/liquidity and I figure I can season my ganches or other product well enough for that to be the dominate flavor over my chocolate. Now if I was making solid chocolate candy bars.........well then that might be a different story.

But I would never buy the same line/brand of chocolate all being under 60%...........it's not logical in my head. If I had chocolates in different percentages laying around to work with I'd want a much more variation.........and several different brands. So I can't understand why this company would market such similar chocolates.

[tan319]

I guess that I may have misundersaood that initial question, i thought it was what are you using and why? Across the board, not limited to the '50'%s'.

The bottom line for me would be taste.

I would like to see or feel the melt in them.

But taste is my # 1 criteria.