New York with kids

[thom]

Boy it's along time since I posted in this section...

Brief backstory first:

I run the Restaurant and Bar exhibition in Manchester (UK), and before that I founded Restaurant Magazine, and launched events such as The 50 Best Restaurants in the World awards.

Not withstanding the fact that my job lets me hang around a lot of nice restaurants and call it work, my girlfriend and I have always been fanatical foodies, and we have always loved eating and drinking in New York.

In the past our annual visits have been coordinated around the restaurants we wanted to eat in. We stayed at The Soho Grand, and ate in Nobu, The Canal House, The Mercer Kitchen, Gotham Bar and Grill, Balthazaar, Gramercy Tavern, Union Square, Il Mulino, Babbo, Cafe Bolund and more.

Until... we were blessed with our son Jack. Add up the ten months since we had last been away, the nine months of pregnancy (a harder burden for my GF than me I admit...) and the sixteen months old he is today and suddenly we haven't been away anywhere for three years, let alone New York! Time for a return...

We're not masochists, and we certainly wouldn't have chosen a long haul flight with an energetic 18 month old, but a friends wedding in Montreal has given us the option get back to NY via a 45 minute flight. My question to you clever, clever folks is where (and how) do we eat in NY with a toddler? Equally, where do we stay?

We'd love to stay around Soho again rather than uptown, but I've quickly come to realise that boutique style hotels aren't particularly baby friendly. More to the point I guess that getting out at night is tricky (like all new parents we get freaked out by the idea of strangers baby-sitting) so we need a hotel that has a decent restaurant and bar we can lounge about in at night courtesy of a listening service.

And eating out. I guess lunch and early evening are the key as that's when we'll be out and about. I love Gramercy Tavern, I love good food, I have no restrictions as to style or ethnicity of cuisine and ideas relating to hotdogs, streetfood and delis are just as relevent as 'fine' dining and a la carte menus. So where would I like? Where likes kids? Where serves the sort of food a kid can eat, or is willing to adapt dishes (simple pasta etc)?

All help much appreciated.

Cheers

Thom

[Pan]

We have a thread about Kid-friendly dining. As of this posting, that thread hasn't been posted to since 2002, but some of the information in it is still timely.

More threads:

Visitors with kids, Where to go

Kids eat, too, Where to dine w/ children

That last thread specifically focuses on someone with two daughters aged 5 and 10, but look at it, anyway, and note the reference to Ellen Shapiro's book, New York City With Kids.

[thom]

Pan,

Fantastic, excellent links. I should have guessed this would have been covered in detail before.

The book sounds interesting too. I'll have a look on Amazon. Does it cover babies too or just bone fide children?

Thanks again for your help.

Cheers

Thom

[SuzySushi]

When we visited NYC with our daughter (now 8, then age 6 months or 3-1/2 years) we took her out all the time. Generally we chose Chinatown or neighborhood eateries (on one trip, we stayed at a friend's apartment on the Upper East Side, so we did Mocca Hungarian restaurant twice), but we also dined with friends in Greenwich Village at Trois Canards (French) and Alfalma (Portuguese). Everyplace we went was child-friendly, to us, anyway.

One tip is to dine slightly earlier than the usual "dinner rush" time -- try to be the first seating, which varies by restaurant -- so the restaurant is not crowded.

Another is to phone ahead (even if the restaurant does not require reservations) and ask if your child would be welcome. If you get a brush off on the phone, definitely dine elsewhere!

And by the way, you didn't ask, but to help with the air pressure changes during your airplane flights (bad before landing, not so bad on take-off), bring along a bottle or sippy-cup to give your son when the plane begins its descent. (Fill with milk, juice, or even water.) It prevents screaming from discomfort. You and your seatmates will be glad.

[Pan]

Thom, I haven't read Ellen's book, so I couldn't tell you.

[sabg]

there is an embassy suites downtown at the financial center, across from the world trade center site...it gives you extra room and a nice area to walk around on the waterfront without crazy crowd...it will be lacking in the cool soho bar/restaurant department though

when my son was younger i ususally stayed on central park south...i could walk to lots things and it was not as crowded as some other areas..v good selection of hotels with some v v good dining ang great lounge/bars without too much of bar "scene" and you have the park across the street so if your son needs a good running, its close by...i liked the essex house, park lane, the westin...i stay away from the plaza with kids, i always felt there were too many lurkers...have a wonderful trip

[docsconz]

Depending on your son, it may be difficult to dine comfortably at a fine dining establishment. While this might be regrettable on one sense, it may be an opportunity to explore some other areas of New York Cuisine. Some examples would include fine pizza, such as Franny's in Brooklyn, great Thai such as Sripraphai in Queens, Szechuan Chinese such as Grand Szechuan in Manhatten, excellent Greek such as Molyvos in midtown. all of these places will provide excellent fare in a more relaxed environment that can deal with an 18 month old. They will also be relatively quick with the possible exception of Molyvos. This strategy served us well in London a number of years ago when we went with our then 10 and 9 year olds and three month old baby.

[thom]

Thanks one and all to the helpful replies.

We have moved on a little bit now (learning all the way), so here's an update and a more refined set of questions:

We have realised that finding a suite with a seperate living/sleeping space was key (meaning Jack can sleep whilst we are up and about in the room) and finding one that suited our tastes and budget was the key.

We were almost swayed by some extremly good rates at The Mark, but in the end we got a great deal of the apparently funky but comfortable W over in Murray Hill. Seems in style like A Soho Grand-Lite, so we liked it.

I think we have decided to take things easy in the evening and just eat in the hotel (hoping Jack's body clock will have settled and he'll be fast asleep). The inhouse eaterie is called Icon, and the menus and pics online look fine with a loungey environment and eclectic comfort food. Anyone have any opinions on whether it's any good or not?

We do though fancy getting the baby sitters in for one night, and going for a big blow out meal. I'm tempted by a return to Gramercy, but does anyone have any opinions on where we should go for a special treat?

I think we would prefer 'Modern American' rather than anything ethnic or rigidly French fine dining, and would be looking for a reasonably refined place. Anything a little bit different to what we would be likely to get at home in Manchester/London would be great (in the same way that St John in London is very different to what you would find in NY, whereas Gordon Ramsay possibly is not).

A final request is for places to eat during the day. We won't be leaving Manhattan, and we're looking for kid friendly places. As mentioned previously these can be simpler ethnic places, or they can more upscale places which are less formal and busy at midday than for dinner..

As suggested by SuzySushi I'll call ahead to check these places are kid friendly anyway, but it's nice to have starting list. Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Thom

[ned]

I have a ten month old. Lunch is the best meal with him and it is often at the Shake Shack in Madison Park. It ain't fancy but it is great and the park is fabulous. Not to be missed.

We find that restaurants which would otherwise be very difficult with a little one are pretty easy to navigate if you get there just as they open. And even better at the tail end of the lunch service. Prune for example, I wouldn't even think it in the throes of dinner. But if you get there at six just as they open, you'll be in like Flynn. The owner has a newish baby and the entire staff seems to love kids. And of course, the food is excellent.

[Laura B]

I second the recommendation to eat at Shake Shack. It is always full of people with young kids. It is a walk-up burger, hot dog, frozen custard place in Madison Square Park with lots of outdoor seating, but the food is really fabulous. It is owned by Danny Meyer. One word of advice, though. Go for an early lunch or you will seriously regret it. The lines can be an hour long! But they open at 11 am every day, and if you show up just after 11:00, you will be fine.

[mascarpone]

I would suggest Eleven Madison Park [@ 11 Madison Ave/24th Street (212)889-0905] for the blow out meal. If you liked GT, you will like Eleven Madison Park, also run by Danny Meyer.

Edited June 2, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

[mascarpone]

There is also Craft @43 East 19th between Broadway and Park Avenue South, (212)789-0880 for the blow-out meal. I found this a refreshing alternative during restaurant week last February.

[Pan]

Thom, for lunch places, Chinese restaurants are just about always family-friendly. Grand Sichuan has been mentioned. Usually, when people mention that name, they mean the Midtown location at 9th Av. near 50 St., but the St. Marks location is by now just about equally good, so decide which neighborhood you'd rather be in at that point and pick the place accordingly.

[ned]

And speaking of Danny Meyer, how about Blue Smoke for some vittles that you can't get across the pond. You can bring the kid and they'll have a high chair and you can go any time you want although you should make a reservation.

Here's another idea that my wife, son and I employ from time to time. On Broome Street east of Mott on the south side of the street there is a Vietnamese grocery. They sell these incredible sandwiches called Bahn Mi. . . for like three bucks a pop. You can get iced tea there or fresh squeezed sugar cane juice, whatever. Buy the sandwiches, be sure to specify how hot you want them, then walk to Spring and Mulberry, just a three minute walk, and sit in the park. On a nice day, there's nothing better.

[jennahan]

I was in NYC for two weeks in April with my 17 month old baby (from London). I would probably advise you to stay closer to Central Park (i.e., Midtown). OK, so it isn't as cool and Soho, but it is really handy with baby...the reason is transportation. Getting around NYC with baby on public transport is a nightmare. There aren't lifts in the subway system, and cabs are the obvious answer, but cabbies are notoriously bad drivers. I stayed in Midtown and walked most places with Baby. In order to entertain baby (he needs to run around every day, or else he goes berzerk), I would take him to Central Park (brilliant petting zoo, and many playgrounds), Bryant Park, the Met (lots of areas for kids to run around...believe it or not!). The Fitzpatrick is really comfortable and conveniently located, has a separate room for baby, and has a great babysitting service (we used the same babysitter several times.) The only thing is that, as to expected, you pay a premium. Babysitter was$25/hr with a 4 hour minimum.

I took baby to the cafe at Jean Georges for lunch (they have highchairs, and were sweet in bearing with a tired, screaming toddler), drinks at 57 57 (if you are there early, it's pretty empty and they didn't seem to mind the baby), Burger Heaven (they have several in the area), Artisanal (several times), and Pastis for brunch (they have crayons and paper to entertain). For nicer meals, I wasn't brave enough to include Baby.

[thom]

Great suggestions one and all.

Shake shack just sounds absolutely fantastic. It did get a brief mention in one of the guides I picked up, but I didn't realise it was a Danny Meyer Place, nor that frozen custard could sound quite so delicious. I think we will be making it a daily drop in. Just so I am clear, is Madison Park the bit marked on my map as a green rectangle labelled 'Madison Square' (not the MSG venue obviously)?

Craft was one I was considering as I'd heard very good things about it. I also like the idea of Eleven Madison Park (and any of Mr Meyer's ventures to be honest) and Blue Smoke has been noted for doing the whole high chair bit - very important. Grand Sichuan also noted, and Ned, thanks for the sandwich tip - That's the sort of insider tip you'll never get in a guide book.

Jennahan, that's a lot of practical and sensible advice! Our boy has to run and run all day (Forrest Gump style) or else he is a nightmare, so Central Park will not know what has hit it. We're planning on doing the walking thing too, and although Murray Park is a little out of the way I know from past experience that we are happy to walk to Soho/Greenwich Village or Central Park from there.

Jean Georges has high chairs?! Wow, I really didn't expect that. And (bear with me, I'm not as up to date as I should be with NY dining) isn't Artisanal pretty upscale too? Impressed and delighted if such places can cope with toddlers for lunch, this may open up a whole new set of dining options to us.

Kind of important as although I was quite excited about getting a babysitter in for a night, my girlfriend is not (apparently no mere mortal can be entrusted with out special little man) so having top-drawer kid-friendly places to lunch is great.

We're off on Thursday next week, so I'll bounce any other suggestions around on here, and give you a little review of how it all went afterwards.

Cheers

Thom

[Pan]

[...]Just so I am clear, is Madison Park the bit marked on my map as a green rectangle labelled 'Madison Square' (not the MSG venue obviously)?[...]

←

Yes, that's right.

Say, are you interested in Korean food? I think that in particular, a loud diner-like place like Han Bat would be happy to accomodate a couple with a baby. Diner-like, cheap, and informal it is, but the food is very good. I have a feeling less informal Korean places would also be OK with a baby. Anyone else have an opinion about that?

[mascarpone]

Both Grand Sichuan and Han Bat have great food and would be child friendly environments. My only concern is if such spice-laden quisine, although very much appreciated by spice loving adults, is appropriate for a child's palate. Grand Sichuan does have an American Chinese section in its menu and there are some milder dishes at Han Bat as well, however this issue should be kept in mind.

Edited June 4, 2005 by mascarpone (log)

[Pan]

Your point is well taken, but if the baby likes things like beef broth, at Han Bat and various other Korean restaurants, there's the white cowfoot soup with noodles that's unseasoned (I don't remember the Korean name), with salt added to the taste of the customer. That might make things pleasant for the kid. And some of the items in the panchan (set of side dishes brought for the table) normally are mild. Grand Sichuan would be happy to make fried rice or wonton or corn/eggdrop soup or any of various other things that might be to the kid's taste.

[thom]

Great guys, cheers again.

Mascarpone, you pre-empted a question I had about Asian cuisine - basically whether a child who pretty much eats a no salt/home-cooked diet would be able to cope with the salt, heat and intense aromatic flavours which make Asian cuisine so exciting.

Thinking about it we've never taken him out for Asian food, and I don't think we've home cooked him a stir-fry. Must rectify that, so thanks for the tips on toddler-suitable dishes.

I think The Shake Shack is going to be a daily pilgrimage, and we'll try a couple of the neighbourhood Italian's and Chinese/Korean places. On the subject of the former, I used to like the pizzas from Lombardis (and usefully there is a little playground next door); is it still good (I appreciate that most of Little Italy is a tourist trap)? Also, we used to like Il Mulino. I'm imagining they would be fine with kids at lunchtime, but does anyone have any experience?

Are there any bog standard cafes around our Hotel (Murray Hill/The W Court) where we can sit and grab a bite to eat/breakfast before venturing off for the day? I'm a bagel addict, but anything along the 'light bites' theme is fine.

Thanks so much for all your feedback.

Thom

[Pan]

I don't recommend Lombardi's. I realize that with a baby in tow, you have more limited maneuverability and my favorite places are somewhat far-flung compared to where you'll be staying, but have a look at these threads:

THE BEST: NYC Pizza Favorites

NYC Pizza Survey

[mascarpone]

It might be a little out of the way, but I like Ess-a-bagel @359 1st Avenue (21st street )on a weekday. The weekend, especially Sunday morning, is very hectic. Mind you, this is not by any means a tranquil, spacious, airy dinning salon where one can leisurely savor ones bagel while reading Yates or Spinoza. If the weather is nice, I would take-out and dine outside at a park.

Admittedly, I do not freqent that part of town in the mornigs. Perhaps someone else who lives in the area could recommend a good "coffe shop."

[mascarpone]

Thom,

How was your holiday? Where did you end up dining? How was it?

[thom]

Mascarpone,

The holiday was fantastic, thank you very much for asking. Exhausting though... That whole 5 hour time difference/7 hour flight/big city/first trip with a kid was quite a baptism of fire...

As to where we ate, well I have to admit we copped out a little bit. Not telling experienced parents anything they don't know here, but however much of a gourmet/food snob you are, convinience does become a bit of a driver to your dining choices when you have a toddler in tow, especially when you are in the middle of such an exhausting trip (with temps in the 90's...) and there body clock is all over the place.

We arrived in from Montreal (having experienced exceedingly good food at the Relais Chateaux/Relais Gourmand Auberge Hatly) feeling pretty zonked out mid afternoon, and went straight to the hotel - The W Court in Murray Hill.

I have to say I was pretty happy. It was a funky, modern, hip place with attentive service and a buzzy looking bar and restaurant. If you looked closely you could see the cost-cutting which explained why it was so much cheaper than Soho Grand/Mercer et al, but it felt much better than some chintzy faded grandeur old-style place with sky high rates and suspiciously stained porcelin etc and the pricing enabled us to take a roomy suite.

We concentrated on eating out and about during the day, and then ate in the hotel at night. Using our high tech long range baby-listeners we were able to do the latter child-free, which was vital as my better half was vehemently against baby-sitters (and the wonderful freedom that they would have brought...).

We ended up grabbing a few light lunches whilst out doing baby tourist things. Namely the cafe in the Central Park zoo, and the cafe underneath the Natural History Museum. Both were bland offerings, with the Museum's offering in particular veering towards positively unpleasant. Everything was slightly watery, including the (allegedly) kiddy-friendly mac and cheese, and the water-logged bread on the tuna sandwich.

Icon, the restaurant at our hotel, where we ate for a couple of nights, was actually fine. Mean and moody, with a balanced menu of eclectic comfort food. None of it excelled, but it was competently done, tasty, and had a decent wine list. The high points, such as they were, were meltingly tender baby back ribs. Some of the Asian influences dishes - the tuna and the mahi-mahi were less successful with some conflicting ingredients, and over uninspiring stir-fry elements.

We paid a couple of trips to Lombardis, as it meant we could eat out in the park next door whilst my offspring ran around screaming. Having read the pizza threads on here I realise I am but an enthusiastic amateur where pies are concerned, but I have to say that in my unenlightened view I found them most enjoyable. The toppings were great (though the meatballs seem to have shrunk since our last visit), and the base was wonderful - bases in the US seem to have an elasticity to the dough that you just don't get in even the best places over here.

Dean and Deluca was as good as ever, with eye-wateringly (reassuringly?) high prices. We spent what felt like $47 on a tub of different salads for our lad's lunch, which he then refused to eat. Bugger. I always like to spot the unusual or unexpected British products whilst in gourmet outlets overseas - the standouts here were the British beers, which included the seldom seen honey-tinged 'Waggledance'. I was also suprised at how prevalent Newcastle Brown Ale was, though an article in one of the papers backed up that it is a huge success Stateside.

We had the heart-rending experience of finding ourself wandering past our age-old favourite Gramercy Tavern, whilst en route to Soho for a day of shopping (and paint-based fun at the Childrens Art Museum of course). It was 30 minutes before opening, and yet again, the reality of having an feisty child in tow hit home - no just making a snap decision to kick back in a coffee shop for half an hour with the papers waiting for the doors too open, and then indulge in a lingering lunch.

I think the high point of the NY trip was Madison Square Park (thank you eGullet),. Great playground (boy is this post going to start to grate on non-parents), and the fabulous Shake Shack. I'm a bit of a sucker for great concepts - which the Shake Shack is, and a fan of Mr Meyer, but above and beyond this the food was really good. Thick tasty burgers, pink in the middle, and tasty dogs with enough precariously balanced toppings to create an inpromptu side salad. The old fashioned still lemonade was a winner too. I think I failed to appreciate the custards though, which just seemed like a rich, good-quality Cornish ice-cream to me.

Had a nosey around Grand Central market, which was very nice. Good veggy stall, with a real variety of cool produce (white asparagus, salsify, samphire - known as sea beans! - and lots of things I didn't even recognise). The only thing that scared me off was the fish stall which had the unappetising sounding fish sausages...

Also in Grand Central we visited the wine store, and on the recommendation of the owner took home a very nice bottle of Californian pinot noir. I am whatever the opposite of a wine-snob is, but I'm attempting to build my knowledge to increase the enjoyment I get from a decent glass. I'm ashamed to say that I have drunk said wine, found it utterly delicious, but couldn't even tell you the name... I'll double check and let you know.

On the subject of wine, we also picked up a couple of bottles of wine from a place half way down Broadway (about level with The University, 5 mins North of Houston). It was like a big wine supermarket, with what seemed like a excellent selection, and was run by an eccentric guy with a grey beard and a deep voice, and a penchant for chewing mints as he spoke.

We got a couple of bottles of US Chardonnay (not a grape I normally go for) for friends (about $10), and then indulged ourself with a £20 bottle for ourselves. The latter was, he said, one the few true US Chardonnays, as virtually all the rest were some mutant grape so deviated from the true Chardonnay that it couldn't be classified as such in France. He called it a travesty, and we only realised on leaving the shop that the true travesty was that he had actually also sold us two relatively cheap bottles of US Chardonnay which were by his own arguments 'awful'.

We missed the Union Square Green Market (passed in during set up on the Wednesday, but didn't realise it wouldn't be on the next day), so that is on the to do list for next time.

All in all we didn't get to eat in half the number or breadth of places that we had ambitiously wanted to. That said, having found out parenting feet with the is trip, we feel confident that we can strike an even better balance next time round, and get closer to the indulgent gastro-tourism which used to drive our trips to the city.

Thanks again for all the help and advice on here.

Cheers

Thom

[mascarpone]

Brilliant reply, Thom. Thanks for the feedback.