Fried Chicken: Cook-Off 5

[slkinsey]

Shouldn't make too much of a difference if the marinade is already cold, right? That would only accelerate the cooling of the chicken. Of course, one could always throw the chicken in an ice bath for 30 minutes or so before going to the buittermilk.

[snowangel]

Shouldn't make too much of a difference if the marinade is already cold, right?  That would only accelerate the cooling of the chicken.  Of course, one could always throw the chicken in an ice bath for 30 minutes or so before going to the buittermilk.

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That's what my grandmother did. Ice bath first.

[slkinsey]

A salted ice bath might be even better. Colder and also puts some seasoning into the chicken.

[snowangel]

Need some advice. I'm a glutton for punishment. Not only am I hosting betweeen 12 and 25 for Easter lunch (won't know number until late Saturday night), I'm doing an NCAA women's basketball thing here tomorrow featuring fried chicken. Further, we are going to do side by side taste testings of fifi's recipe and Brook's recipe.

My questions:

1. I do the buttermilk soak for 24 hours or so. How long for Brook's baking powder/water soak?

2. Oil. Brooks is very specific about peanut oil. But, I've always done crisco and bacon grease.

Let's talk about oil, grease and times for soaking.

While we're at it, let's talk about whether or not to let it sit on a rack once it's been floured. Brooks doesn't mention that...

The heat is on!

[Mayhaw Man]

I don't let it sit, at all. Straight from the flour into the grease. I have always been told, and it makes sense to me, that letting the flour become water laden prevents the crust from being uniform across the surface of the chicken. My mother, my grandmother, their housekeeper Dorothy, and every other chicken champion I knew growing up did it this way.

And when I started in the restaurant biz, it got reinforced in a less pleasant manner.

I once worked for a guy, Mike Anderson, who was pretty serious about this. I was working the pass line, calling tickets and moving food (this is a 400 seat restaurant-this job was a study in supervision of chaos into a food ballet between all of the stations-when it went right, this was the single most satisfying thing that I have ever done at any job-no matter how much money I was making-I loved running that army) and a bunch of fried shrimp hit the line. Mike was standing on the other side of the line, in the way (but hey, he owned the place) looking at food, as he is a NUT about food quality. He saw some shrimp that he figured (correctly, as it turns out) someone had dug out of a pan after they had been in there for a while and then fried. He started picking them up, one by one, and kind of tossing them-not gently-right into the middle of my chest. All the while, I was ignoring him and trying to keep my ballet from turning into an anarchic free for all. Eventually, I had to acknowledge these 300 F shrimp hitting me in the chest and I stopped what I was doing and just looked at him. All he said was, "pay attention to the food. Things are running great tonight, but if you send out crap they aren't coming back. Don't send out crap. If they don't come back, nobody gets paid". That was a pretty good point, I thought.

So my point here is that, to this day, I don't let the food sit in the flour. Straight to the grease.

[snowangel]

So, tomorrow night, it won't sit once floured. Right into that hot peanut oil.

One of the things that amazed me at the market is that it is either a really tiny bottle of peanut oil or a big effing one.

I got the big effing one. Why is there no middle ground on size of container of peanut oil?

[fifi]

I vote with MM on not letting it sit. Aunt Minnie had this ballet going on . . . One piece of chicken into the bag, shake, out of the bag, quick shake and into the pan. This staged putting the pieces into the pan so that the temp didn't drop too much. She worked in a clockwise spiraling pattern, this was a big pan, and used the same pattern for turning and taking out.

I will be interested in the comparison. I haven't had a chance to try the MM method yet. I was somewhat disappointed in the thickness of the crust on my trial. I attributed that the a thinner buttermilk than I am used to. That style should be a fairly thick crust chicken. I suspect that the final products are all good, just a different style. It never hurts to have more than one in your arsenal.

I have no idea why on the quantities of peanut oil but, now that you mention it, you are right. I see that here, too. I will guess that folks are buying it in small quantities for salad dressings and such and the big guys for frying turkeys.

[Chris Amirault]

Well, I finally made a huge batch last night: three chickens' worth of fried wonder. Or, at least the first batch was....

I did a buttermilk, hot sauce, onion, salt marinade -- worked fine. I made a spiced flour mixture with AP flour, some corn flour, and baking powder -- worked great. The oil was mostly Crisco shortening with as much bacon grease as I could save, heated in my biggest Le Creuset pot -- worked peachy.

Due to several people suggesting that you serve the chicken immediately, I was shuttling just fried pieces to the six folks eating, each of whom wanted different pieces. The breasts (cut in half), wings, and thighs were coming out fine, and the drumsticks were a little underdone at the bone, but the crust on each was absolutely perfect.

This combination I attribute not only to the items above but also to the temperature of the fat. I got it up slowly to 350 and then maintained it pretty consistently at 325ish as pieces came in and out. When I do my chicken nuggets, I aim for 350-375, but that was too hot for these bigger pieces on the bone. 325 seemed to hit the perfect balance for that first batch.

So, I finished up, turned off the heat, and went in and ate. (We also had corn bread, some quick cucumber pickles, and the great cole slaw in How to Cook Everything, I'll add.) Delicious. Then I went back into the kitchen to cook the rest of the chicken and everything went to shite.

When I turned the heat back up, the oil got way too hot very, very quickly; by the time I had turned back to the stove, it was at 375 and the brown bits were closer to black. Following that, it seemed impossible to find any middle ground with the fat: either it was way too hot or way too cold (down around 250-275). If I tried to turn it up, I also scortched the pieces, so that there would be one too dark spot on an otherwise nicely crisped piece.

I just scanned through McGee and can't find anything about this, but I seem to remember somewhere (in Shirley Corriher?) a discussion about what happens when you reheat certain fats. Perhaps I'm just projecting my insecurities onto the grease , but if memory serves the fat becomes less stable the second and third time around. Is this true? Can it happen so quickly?

Having said all of this: those first few pieces were heavenly, just heavenly. Adding the bacon grease was a great idea; you could detect that underpinning in each bite. Thanks for all the great tips, everyone!

[fifi]

Boy am I curious about the fat temperatures. I don't think I have ever heard of that. I do know that the smoke point of fats change as they break down, getting lower. But I haven't heard of temperature stability problems. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Does the heat capacity change? I dunno. I have always saved my Crisco in a coffee can in the fridge, just like Aunt Minnie did and don't recall having problems. Well, truth be known, if I had problems I would have probably attributed that to something else, like my legendary inattentiveness.

I was glad to hear that you found 325 ideal. That is my thinking as well. I will have to see what happens with my saved Crisco next time around. I don't know that my test will mean much since I had temperature control problems with this electric coil range the first time around.

[Patrick S]

I don't do much savory stuff, but the pics here really got me craving fried chicken. So I tried the Martha Stewart recipe referenced way back in the beginning of the thread. Soaked overnight in buttermilk, tabasco and salt. Shaken in flour, baking powder, black and cayenne pepper, Fried the first batch in Crisco at 375F, which seemed too hot, so second batch was done at about 350F. It was delicious, but I will want to try something else next time. Thanks everyone for all the recipes, ideas, and testing done so far.

[snowangel]

Since I'm doing a side by side comparison tonight of the buttermilk one and Brook's recipe, I'm planning on doing both in peanut oil. THe memory of the buttermilk recipe in crisco and bacon grease is fresh enough in my mind that I think the comparison will be accurate. Since I'm having a lot of people over tomorrow, I'll light a scented candle before I begin frying. That really seems to help.

[RETREVR]

Never considered a recipe.

Part out chicken.......ice water.........flour.....skillet.....belly.

Actually I think the brookville may use condensed milk.

This is an institution: http://www.brookvillehotel.com/articles.htm

This is a close second: http://www.restauranteur.com/juniper/

God bless fly-over country.

If you really want to get your groov on....use oleo for the fat.

Edited March 27, 2005 by RETREVR (log)

[snowangel]

I will qualify this by saying tonight was probably not the best night to fry chicken. Not only am I getting ready to have 25 over tomorrow, we had some rather serious plumbing problems under the kitchen sink which led Paul to the home improvement store at 5:00 pm on a Saturday night, and both of us sweating and swearing.

But, I did it. I will spare you the photos of the two different soaking processes. My chicken, sitting in buttermilk, salt and tabasco or water and baking powder look no different from anyone else's. Nor do my frying photos.

But, here are the finished products:

fifi's is darker, Brook's lighter in color.

We were a group of 7. One was Heidi, who does not eat chicken, but really likes chicken skin. Although non-verbal, she loved both skins.

The rest of the crowd was divided. Two were definitely for fifi's method, two for brooks. One liked the skin of one better and the meat of one better.

So, the test comes tomorrow for breakfast (my family doesn't know yet that they are eating cold fried chicken for breakfast).

It was a wonderful experience. It is hard to keep two different pans going at two different temps. But then again, I'm often a glutton for punishment.

The kitchen floor, counters and stove are grease free. We are cheering the womens' gopher bb team on as I speak.

Burp.

Edited March 27, 2005 by snowangel (log)

[percyn]

I usually don't fry chicken (or much of anything) at home. However, for this thread, I decided to make an exception and make a traditional Parsi dish called-

Chicken Farcha (recipe from Jamva Chaloji)

6-8 Pieces of chicken (legs preferred)

1 1/2 tbsp Garlic and Ginger paste

1 1/2 tbsp Red Chili powder (Kashmiri)

3/4 tbsp turmeric

1 tbsp salt

1 tbsp pepper

1 1/2 tbsp of ground cloves and cinnamon

1 stalk celery

2 green chilies

1 tbsp cilantro

4-5 eggs

1 cup Breadcrumbs

Neutral oil (I used canola)

Salt to taste

Clean the chicken and remove the skin. Massage in the garlic and ginger paste. Sprinkle the chili powder, cloves and cinnamon and rub it into the chicken. Let it sit for 1/2 hr or more in the fridge.

Place the celery, cilantro, green chilies and 1 cup water into a heavy bottom pot (I used my trusty pressure cooker) and simmer until the chicken is almost cooked through and tender. Remove chicken, dip it into the breadcrumbs, then place it into the egg wash and place it into 350 def F oil until golden brown. The recipe is very explicit about dipping it in the breadcrumbs first, then the egg. I think it is to get that effect you see with Egg Foo Young and other egg dipped dishes. Since the chicken is already cooked, you are only cooking the coating, which takes about a min on each side.

I have had this dish many times in the old country, but this is the first time I am making it at home. It was good and very similar to what I remember, though lacking a bit of spices and heat for my taste (I had to kick it up with some hot sauce).

Given that I had a few chicken pieces remaining, I decided to make regular fried chicken as well, though did not have buttermilk to marinate the chicken in. I stuck these pieces in the oven for 15 min before frying as well.

[Chris Amirault]

OK, folks, I think that it's time to start considering a new cook-off recipe. That doesn't mean, of course, that we shouldn't keep up the fried chicken discussions; I'm hoping someone will post on that fat question I have.

As for next dishes, I've already gotten some interest in pad thai, which I think is a good one: conforms to the new region of the world requirement, has some basic elements of Thai cuisine, and can be tweaked pretty broadly depending on what's available to you (as long as you can get the noodles).

What say y'all?

[snowangel]

A couple of things.

The buttermilk chicken was definitely the better of the two leftover. Crunchier. Just better. Taste tested by the group who ate both fresh. Tomorrow will find me in a kindergarten classroom tomorrow lunch time gnawing away on the the last back and thigh (both of which I hid today).

Next comp. Pad thai sounds good. I still struggle with rice noodles. Heaven knows why. No clue. I can pleat pot stickers like the best of them, and velvet chicken like there's no tomorrow. I can make pasta. I can saute. Rice noodles baffle me.

A future suggestion is crepes. But, let's get through the next round before thinking about the following one.

But, fried chicken will be on our menu more frequently. In fact, I'm sure I will make it 8 weeks from this past Thursday. To haul in the cooler, as we treck to The Cabin. We're always hungry when we get there, and I can't think of a better way to satiate that hunger. Other than the stars, the water, the fire flies, the memories in the making.

[fifi]

I could go for Pad Thai. I have never ventured into that one. I have a similar problem with rice noodles.

Susan . . . Fried chicken is absolutely perfect for cabin trekking. We have a fishing trip coming up and I am considering putting a batch in the cooler for that along with eggplant gratin pressed sandwiches to get the veggies into the menu. I am actually thinking of frying wing drumsticks. They would make just the right size snack that you can finish up quickly when that big redfish hits the bait.

[richbon]

This recipe isn't true Southern fried chicken, but it will make some darn tasty fried boneless chicken breasts. Even better, this recipe is very hard to ruin (no chicken a la meteorite problems). This recipe adapted from Todd English's Figs Restaurant cookbook where it goes by the title, "Olivia's crunchy chicken." I actually made this tonight - next time I'll take pictures.

4-6 boneless, skinless chicken breast "cutlets" (filet whole breast into two cutlets around 3/4 of an inch thick)

1 tbsp dijon-style mustard (tonight I actually used a Kosher deli-style strong mustard)

2 beaten eggs

2 cups all purpose flour

2 cups Panko Japanese-syle bread crumbs

2 tsp diced garlic

3-4 tbsp olive oil

Salt and pepper the cutlets and coat them with the mustard and garlic. Allow to marinate for 20-30 minutes. After the marination is complete, dry the chicken slightly with a paper towel. Next, coat with flour - egg - Panko (you know the drill). Heat pan (I used an aluminum non-stick), add oil. It's a very shallow fry, and you may need to add more oil if you do more than one batch. When the oil is hot, add the chicken. I found that 3-4 minutes per side cooked the meat thoroughly resulting in crispy, nicely browned - but not blackened fried chicken.

[Susan in FL]

I would enjoy pad thai for the next cook-off. I've made it only a couple of times, so I think I would meet the "always wanted to make at home (and may enjoy out) but rarely have made, or haven't made successfully" criteria.

[snowangel]

Leftover chicken report. Remember, I did two versions -- Brook's and buttermilk.

The buttermilk was a more successful leftover, as judged by 6 people.

[Mayhaw Man]

as judged by 6 people.

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I prefer to think of it as "6 yankees". This keeps me from getting riled for not being selected as the champion in this little battle.

[Chris Amirault]

as judged by 6 people.

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I prefer to think of it as "6 yankees". This keeps me from getting riled for not being selected as the champion in this little battle.

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You'll always be number one in our hearts, MM!

[snowangel]

as judged by 6 people.

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I prefer to think of it as "6 yankees". This keeps me from getting riled for not being selected as the champion in this little battle.

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Yes, us Yankee's. I had more trouble controlling the temp with your chicken, for some odd reason. I will try it again, put fewer pieces in with each batch so the temp doesn't drop so much. One of the problems is that I tried frying both different kinds at the same time. The buttermilk in the cast iron skillet. Your's, Brooks, in the LC dutch oven. For some reason, frying in the dutch oven just wasn't as easy, nor was the temp as easy to control. Were this to have been a really controlled experiement, I'd have done a batch of each in each pan! Next time...

[piperdown]

First off I just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for finally getting me to try to make fried chicken. I've been wanting to do it for the first time for awhile now, and this thread finally got me off my ass. Now for the results...

I used a combination of Alton's GoodEats recipe (luckily I have the episode on DVD), Gourmet's recipe, and a little Martha Stewart.

This was also the first time I've ever cut up my own chicken, and it went OK, but I screwed up the thigh part, so they were a little small. I know where I went wrong though, so the mistake won't happen again. Thighs are two tasty to waste.

The first thing I did was heavily salt the chicken for an hour. This was from The Gourmet Cookbook (which you can see in the background)

After that the chicken was rinced, and then soaked in Buttermilk for about 20 hours. The Gourmet recipe also has you put chopped up onions into the bowl, why I have no idea, but I love onions so why not. They also led to an unexpected bonus at the end, which I'll tell you about later. I also added Tabasco and Sambal as per the Martha Stewart recipe (I ran out of hot sauce, thats why I used the sambal...and really why wouldn't you use sambal, it's too good).

After the buttermilk soak, the chicken was drained, and then seasoned liberally (I seasoned more the next batch, since even though I'm Canadian I apparently wasn't liberal enough the fist time). The seasoning was from Alton, but changed a bit. It was a mix of Sweet Hungarian Paprika, Hot Hungarian Paprika, Kosher Salt, Chipotle Powder, Cayenne, and roasted garlic powder (I didn't have any regular garlic powder).

I then shaked in non-seasoned flour (well a little salt was added), and then let it sit for only a minute or two on a rack, since I didn't want the crust turning into glue. I fried the chicken in regular Crisco, and this is when the first problem occurred. I have a electric range (a small one at that...but I'm a student so my kitchen itself is microscopic), and the heat was hard to control. It started off well;

but the oil got a bit too hot, so the chicken was a little charred

I chicken came out a little burned, but was tasty as hell. The Tostones I made also came out well, but I've had a lot more experience cooking tostones then fried chicken. The pan roasted Asparagus was pretty tasty tool still had some chicken left, so later that night I fried some more. I figured If I had two burners going, one lower one higher, then I'd be able to control the heat better. This turned out really well, except that I should have changed the Crisco. I think re-using the oil that I burned the previous batch in wass a mistake, and left the chicken darker then it should have been. The results were good though, and this time I also seasoned a bit more so the flavour was much better.

Now the question was what to do with all those left over onions from the buttermilk marinade. Well I figured that when I make onion rings I soak those in hot sauce and buttermilk too. So after the chicken I just fried those suckers up, and they turned out awesome. Sure the onions were sitting in raw chicken for a day, but then so was the chicken, and I ate that. Maybe it was a little stupid, but I don't mind being stupid if it tastes good.

So again, thanks everyone for all the suggestions and motivation. This is definitely something I'd do again.

Edited March 29, 2005 by piperdown (log)

[snowangel]

Thanks, piperdown, for the report.

I, too, have had a tough time with controlling the oil temp. I think it just comes with experience. I watched my grandmother fry chicken time and time again, and she just seemed to know how hot, when to turn the temp and down. Although I currently have a gas stove, I do well remember the two burner technique when I was on electric!

I'll probably give fried chicken a rest for a couple of weeks, but am planning on doing it many Friday's this summer for food for those late nights when we get to The Cabin!