Defensive Chefs

[Rebel Rose]

I wonder why.

It's a conspiracy promulgated by bugbrains such as myself who don't happen to know what the kitchen's terminology is.

I call all kinds of things by the wrong name. Two questions from the owner, instead of over-reacting, and she would have ascertained that the diner meant breading, and that there was a perceived difference in the spice.

One of my favorite chefs taught me to call the roasted jalapenos rolled in cornbread "Caca del Gato." Now that's something you don't want to spring on a chef you don't know.

[FaustianBargain]

I wonder why.

It's a conspiracy promulgated by bugbrains such as myself who don't happen to know what the kitchen's terminology is.

Now...now...no need to get defensive.

I call all kinds of things by the wrong name.  Two questions from the owner, instead of over-reacting, and she would have ascertained that the diner meant breading, and that there was a perceived difference in the spice. 

To be honest, I dont know either. I am only retrieving from the information Randi herself provided.

edited to add from Randi's older post:

One point we seem to be overlooking is - he misunderstood my complaint about "more filler". I meant the breading - he thought I meant the fish - that there was some kind of inferior "filler" fish used and he wanted to show me the lump crabmeat in the uncooked cakes.

I don't think he would have come out had I simply said the seasoning was not up to par.

Edited March 12, 2005 by FaustianBargain (log)

[SobaAddict70]

Several months ago, we had a Q&A with Chef Marco Canora, formerly of Craft and Gramercy Tavern here in New York City, and now at executive chef and owner of Hearth Restaurant.

One of the comments he posted related to the perception of quality over quantity in terms of the customer's point of view:

I know you said that you weren't talking about compromising the quality of ingredients, but the quality versus quantity conflict is an on-going issue for me. Ultimately, I want guests to perceive that they are getting a good value when they come to my restaurant for dinner, and an easy way for a guest to perceive value is based on the quantity of food they see in front of them. It is much harder for some of them to perceive the quality of the ingredients they are eating. For example, one night a few weeks ago, a man approached me to complain about the size of his tuna appetizer. What he did not realize is that he was getting the best quality tuna there is--the stuff all the best sushi restaurants use. To him, that didn't matter; he would have been happier with 8 ounces of mediocre fish. But for those kind of people, I will never compromise. They can go elsewhere if they want to eat large portions of a crappy fish.

The Commercial Imperative

Q&A with Marco Canora

Off-topic perhaps, but this is basically the same type of issue -- although from a different angle.

Food for thought.

Soba

[Tess]

I pondered her question, perplexed, for some time, and then I asked my best friend what sort of answer he could come up with for the question, "Why would you ever run out?" And he said that he'd have responded, "Because we're idiots, ma'am." and left it at that.

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I completely respect a restaurant that runs out of stuff. Something like a seafood restaurant that never runs out of any kind of fish and shellfish is really scary to me. If you run out it means you're working with what's available in good quality and you're not risking wasting a lot as you would be if you had enough stuff to never run out.

I was only in food service for one summer and don't recall much about it, but these dumb questions people ask remind me of when I owned a small business (and remind me not to do that again any time soon).

[Tess]

Could some more people post some experiences?  I find these stories very interesting.

←

OK!

I was sitting in a bar with some friends and ordered a Diet Coke. It came with a straw in it. I took a sip and noticed that it wasn't diet, or it was flat, or some combination-- I don't remember the exact problem. I asked the bartender for a replacement. He took the glass, drank some out of the straw, pronounced it fine and handed it back.

He may have been pissed off at me for drinking Diet Coke, but the people I was with were boozing it up and I sort of doubt it was that.

Not the same as a chef coming out of the kitchen, but another example of being told you're just dead wrong. (Plus, very unhygenic.)

[ronnie_suburban]

Some years ago my rowdy friends and I went to a now-defunct pizza place, very late on a Sunday night. We'd just gotten off work and our options were limited. We ordered and waited about 30 minutes for the pies to arrive at our table.

When we finally dug into the pies, they tasted horribly of soap; completely inedible. We mentioned this to our server who summoned the manager. He had every right to be irritated with us (we were 18, loud and stupid) and he refused believe our claim about the soapy pizzas. Finally, after some wrangling, we convinced him to taste "just one bite" of any of the pies. If he thought we were wrong, we offered, "we'll pay for everything and take the pizzas with us." He finally relented and took a bite. His eyes just about popped out of his head. He grabbed a napkin from the table and spit the unswallowed bite of pizza into it.

I think he was delighted to inform us that it was now too late to make us new pizzas. But he happily let us leave without a charge -- not even for the beverages we'd consumed while waiting.

=R=

[TheFoodTutor]

I was sitting in a bar with some friends and ordered a Diet Coke. It came with a straw in it. I took a sip and noticed that it wasn't diet, or it was flat, or some combination-- I don't remember the exact problem. I asked the bartender for a replacement. He took the glass, drank some out of the straw, pronounced it fine and handed it back.

Ew. Well, was the bartender cute enough that you'd kiss him on a first date, at least? I try to look at potentially unsanitary things that way, sometimes. Regardless, I'd have asked him to pour me another Diet Coke.

This reminds me of a time when I was having a margarita on my day off at a restaurant I managed. One of my employees had delivered the drink to me, and since it normally is served with a little cocktail straw, he noticed that there wasn't one in the drink and offered to go get me one. I accepted his offer, and he went to the bar and put an unwrapped cocktail straw on a napkin, which is generally the way you deliver unwrapped straws, because it appears cleaner than if you were to carry an unwrapped straw directly in your hand. He set the napkin down with the straw on it in front of me, pointed at the straw and said, "I have no idea how that straw came to be on that napkin, but there it is."

That's just one of those things that industry insiders say to each other, because of course I knew that he'd touched the straw.

Anyway, thanks for empathizing, Tess. It means a lot to me.

[FaustianBargain]

This, coming from a chef, is pure blasphemy. Why would you even consider reducing the quality of your food in order to feed more mouths? Sometimes you run out of things in your business. Customers understand that too. The logical thing to do is either not offer them that day or tell your waitstaff that they have run out so they can inform the customers. If you think the latter option is not good, then I would have to disagree with you. I would bet in good confidence, that some of the people who couldn't have the crab cakes would come back simply because they want to see how good they must be.  The same thing applies to places where you almost always have to wait. People avoid that and miss out because if you have to wait, it must be good. Why else would there be so many people there?

Good food is what keeps restaurants running. At least, that is how it should be....There is another word for consistency. Monotony.

You are missing the pint. Randi is not saying that their menu should always have those crabcakes. Her point is simply that when they do offer them, consistency is in order. I agree wholeheartedly

←

I would never suggest that quality has to be compromised. I only meant that the chef might have had to compromise on the quality of a product if he cannot compromise on the quantity. It is a trade off. Professionals prefer quality over quantity.

Consistency, among other things, can only be as reliable as the consistency of the quality of what goes INTO a dish. Customers expecting consistency on their terms are not being reasonable if they dictate to the chef, a professional, where and how the tradeoff must take place.

Farns, I typed several responses to your post, but this version is the one I decided to post. If you choose to reply and if I don't have to wrestle with self censorship in the future course of our discussion, do remember that you'll be granting me a favour by allowing me to respond in kind.

Edited March 12, 2005 by FaustianBargain (log)

[touaregsand]

I've tried looking at this whole thread both as an industry professional (on and off) and as a consumer who has dine out extensively in other countries, namely France and Korea. I've also eaten at alot "ethnic" places in America throughout the country. Also, although English is the lingua franca on egullet, I don't assume that everyone is from America or another English speaking country, in fact I know that's not the case. One example is when someone (yes I know this someone is in the UK, but that's not my point) posted that the customer should respect the chef and a response was something like get over yourself. Well there is no rule that the customer "must" do this, but in a country like France for instance, customers just do. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that the initial assertion would be accepted in a different way in other cultures.

As a consumer I mostly take the avoidance route to conflict-

I've learned that in some countries/cultures the customer does not dictate to the chef, if you complain it better be a good one or else you are either asking for a fight or to be treated like a total idiot. You can't have it your way, no substitutions. This is the way we do it, take it or leave it.

I've learned that for the most part complaining about anything in London with an American accent will be aggressively responded to. Even the perception of a complaint or implied negativity is cause for a potential argument. (I was only there for a week, but man I got the message right away that I had to walk on eggshells over there. True one person's experience. But I am a very friendly, easy going person and petite. I've also dealt with all kinds of people personally and professionally). In France I once said that it was too hot at a trade show and this French woman snapped back, "Yes, you like your air conditioning over there?!?!? Well we don't." In North Carolina (I know not a foreign country ) I commented that the portions were generous in a pleasant sort of way. Someone snapped back, "we're not on fancy diets like you city folks!!"

I also know that complaining at some places is just hopeless. Because it's beyond their means in terms of finances and skill level. Professional culinary schools in America are relatively new compared to France. In France the vast majority of chefs and line cooks attended culinary school or a formal apprenticeship this is true at all levels of restaurants. In America at the mid and lower range this is much less likely.

So all the cooks aren't neccessarily professionals or profesional minded, it's just another job, in between another job and this is what a chef sometimes has to work with. The average restaurant in America less than 5% of gross goes into the owner's pocket. In Korea to give another example, some places pride themselves on their banchan. Not uncommon for customers to be drawn to a place mainly for this. Often the banchan dishes vary though, depending on the availability of ingredients and the inspirations of the chef. No complaints about inconsistency, quite the contrary, "We love it when you try new things. Where did you learn this?" And banchan are not just side dishes, in the sense that the customer migh just order rice and a simple soup to get to the banchan. So the expectation of consistency with some dishes are different over there.

The times I have complained are when the quality of food was bad in relation to the type of place or there was deliberate misrepresentation or the service was insultingly appalling. These are the stories.

1. I order a merguez sandwich at an LA cafe that bills itself as French. The sausage is dry. Clearly precooked, held too long and then nuked. It is completely inedible. I complain. The server tells me that merguez is supposed to look like that. I tell her no. She tells me I just don't know my French food. First of all merguez is North African, not French. I have been to France a dozen or so times, so yes I do know that it is quite popular over there. It's one of my favorite quick meals when I go there. Second, my French chef husband of Algerian descent is sitting right next to me listening to this server. She picked the wrong person to bullshit to. This one was a real piece of cake when it came to lying. She was pleasant about it but could not stop. She offered to comp the sandwich, which she insisted was housemade (not, I know the vendor) and offered us free dessert, we said that would be nice, but we only want them if they are housmade (not, I know the supplier) she says they are.

I didn't get angry, but I told her that she should stop lying.

2. London. I eat at the hotel restaurant, I don't have any cash on me, but I do have a credit card. They don't take credit cards. I ask to have it put on my hotel bill. The guy starts acting like I'm trying to run off without paying a lousy, cheap meal. He was very abrasive. Tells me to go get cash out of the ATM down the street. It's freezing cold and very late and I am getting pissed. I make up some story about exceeding my withdrawel limit because I just want him to do what I know he can do, which is to go upstairs and have the front desk process it. Simple as that. I didn't want to back off with this one, because I hate bullies.

3. Italian restaurant in Los Angeles. The advertise rather boldly that they make ravioli with homemade dough. This is the only time I will order ravioli, because I cannot stand ravioli made from won ton skins which so many restaurants around here do. I even confirm the "homemade dough" with the waiter before ordering. Guess what? Made from wonton skins. I point it out to the waiter. He gets...um... sort of racist. He tells me that I just don't know what Italian raviolis are, how could I because you know you're..." I respond "Yes, I'm Asian. So maybe in your little world that means I don't know Italian food. But using your silly logic that would mean that I know my won ton skins." He doesn't want to let it go. He even goes to the back to pretend to ask the chef, comes back and tells me, "the chef is insulted that you say they are won ton skins." I say, "tell the chef to come out and lie to my face or if he's too busy I'll just pop into the kitchen." (I'm a small, so it's not like I'm a physical threat to anyone. My 6 year old looks like she'll be taller than me in 2 years). The waiter goes back and finally confesses that the chef ran out of pasta dough and he subbed won ton skins.

Edited March 12, 2005 by touaregsand (log)

[halloweencat]

cheers to touaregsand for not backing down in her interactions. :)

reflecting on this thread at large, i think one of the big arenas for misunderstandings is that one person's comment is another person's complaint.

the second is the clash of two cultures, customer/civillian and restaurant/professional.

just "simple" things, like language. "filler" having two or multiple meanings, some perhaps perjorative to a chef.

perception, as in when the house feels like it's giving the customer extra care and attention, and the customer is agast that a simple comment (perhaps unwittingly solicited by the house) results in an important-looking person in a highly visible white costume coming to one's table.

just some observations.

cheers :)

hc

[Farns]

I would never suggest that quality has to be compromised. I only meant that the chef  might have had to compromise on the quality of a product if he cannot compromise on the quantity. It is a trade off. Professionals prefer quality over quantity.

A true chef who takes pride in his work does not compromise quality for quantity. I am sure there are some occasions where this is impossible, say a catering that was booked months ago and, when it comes time to order the food, you cannot get as much (insert ingredient here) as you need. But in the day to day business of running a kitchen, there is no excuse for it besides greed. Like I said, either don't run that dish or let the staff know that you are short and to be ready to see it 86'd.

Consistency, among other things, can only be as reliable as the consistency of the quality of what goes INTO a dish. Customers expecting consistency on their terms are not being reasonable if they dictate to the chef, a professional, where and how the tradeoff must take place.

Randi did not say anything about the quality of the ingredients. She said it TASTED different. She specifically mentioned the peppery flavor. It is really not that difficult to make something like a simple crabcake the same way over and over even without a recipe and it is equally as easy to tell that it tastes different than it did before. She never dictated anything to the chef and if the chef was a true professional, the cakes would have been the same as they were before or they wouldn't be on the menu.

Farns, I typed several responses to your post, but this version is the one I decided to post. If you choose to reply and if I don't have to wrestle with self censorship in the future course of our discussion, do remember that you'll be granting me a favour by allowing me to respond in kind.

←

If you are referring to me telling you to get over yourself, I have no problem with you telling me off. I stand by my statement. It's not like it was a personal attack.

I can tell you that nothing is more annoying than someone playing the martyr about how hard they work and how tough their job is. It seems as if you assume that chefs work harder than anyone else. That is a baseless assumption and I get ticked off when chefs do that. Lots of people work hard. You are not the only ones.

As for the customer having to "respect" the chef, I completely disagree. If anything the chef should show respect to the cutomer. Without the customer, the bills don't get paid and the chef is out of a job and cannot practice their art.

[FaustianBargain]

A true chef who takes pride in his work does not compromise quality for quantity. I am sure there are some occasions where this is impossible, say a catering that was booked months ago and, when it comes time to order the food, you cannot get as much (insert ingredient here) as you need. But in the day to day business of running a kitchen, there is no excuse for it besides greed. Like I said, either don't run that dish or let the staff know that you are short and to be ready to see it 86'd.

I have no idea what you just said up there, so I will refrain from commenting.

Consistency, among other things, can only be as reliable as the consistency of the quality of what goes INTO a dish. Customers expecting consistency on their terms are not being reasonable if they dictate to the chef, a professional, where and how the tradeoff must take place.

[..]

Randi did not say anything about the quality of the ingredients. She said it TASTED different. She specifically mentioned the peppery flavor. It is really not that difficult to make something like a simple crabcake the same way over and over even without a recipe and it is equally as easy to tell that it tastes different than it did before. She never dictated anything to the chef and if the chef was a true professional, the cakes would have been the same as they were before or they wouldn't be on the menu.

Since you brought up Randi again, may I remind you that the 'complaint' that went to the kitchen from the customer was not about the 'pepper', but about the 'filler'?

Farns, I typed several responses to your post, but this version is the one I decided to post. If you choose to reply and if I don't have to wrestle with self censorship in the future course of our discussion, do remember that you'll be granting me a favour by allowing me to respond in kind.

[...]

If you are referring to me telling you to get over yourself, I have no problem with you telling me off. I stand by my statement. It's not like it was a personal attack.

Of course. You dont know me. How can it be a personal attack? Surely, you cannot attack anyone/anything about which you know little or nothing.

I can tell you that nothing is more annoying than someone playing the martyr about how hard they work and how tough their job is. It seems as if you assume that chefs work harder than anyone else.

Chefs work very hard. I know. There was no comparison between chefs and the 'others' who also have tough jobs to do. Maybe, you can point out to me the bit where I may have made such comparisons?

Unless you think I made the comparison between the job of the diner demanding consistency in between bites and burbs and that of a chef. Although, a chef's job is harder than the diner who is eating the fruits of his labour.

That is a baseless assumption and I get ticked off when chefs do that. Lots of people work hard. You are not the only ones.

I will be most grateful if you tell me when, where and how this 'baseless assumption' was made. Was it between the job of a programmer and a chef? Maybe there was some comparison between the back breaking work food critics do and that of a commis chef on his feet for 16 hours a day? Oh..or maybe I, because I am thick, compared the soul crushing duties of a lawyer with that of a chef who burns his arms just because...

I must have mentioned and disparaged someone's hard work making random comparisons. Or else you wouldnt say this, would you?

Or would you?

As for the customer having to "respect" the chef, I completely disagree. If anything the chef should show respect to the cutomer. Without the customer, the bills don't get paid and the chef is out of a job and cannot practice their art.

I think the respect should be mutual. The customer must respect the knowledge and talent and hard work of the chefs. The chefs must respect the purchasing power of the customer and strive to make the dining experience as memorable and pleasant as possible for the diner.

[Farns]

I have no idea what you just said up there' date=' so I will refrain from commenting.[/quote']

What's not to understand? It's pretty simple.

Since you brought up Randi again, may I remind you that the 'complaint' that went to the kitchen from the customer was not about the 'pepper', but about the 'filler'?

Maybe you should reread her post then.

However' date=' I was disappointed with them this time. They did not taste the same as last week. [b']They were salty and had much more breading, altho the (sparse) pieces of crab in them were large and tasty. And there was no peppery kick to it like last week.

It just sso happens that the only part of the complaint that the chef addressed was the filler.

Of course. You dont know me. How can it be a personal attack? Surely, you cannot attack anyone/anything about which you know little or nothing.

Of course you can. but that is off topic.

Chefs work very hard. I know. There was no comparison between chefs and the 'others' who also have tough jobs to do.

True.

Edited March 15, 2005 by Farns (log)

[Farns]

I have no idea why the HTML code doesn't seem to be working.

[SuzySushi]

Okay... I'm in the food industry but have never worked in a restaurant. I do know a lot about food and a lot about customer service (my husband used to own a tour business, which I helped him with). To me the rules of good customer service are simple: The customer is almost always right. Even if the customer is totally in the wrong, as the business owner, restaurateur, etc., don't make a scene. That causes more trouble than it's worth because the customer will later badmouth your business to others and may place vindictive complaints with the authorities (Better Business Bureau, health department, whomever). Handle the complaint quietly -- offer to make amends, comp them the dish or the next meal, offer a refund. You'll have a satisfied -- or at least placated -- customer, and if you're still churning inside, go in the back and throw darts.

I'll add a couple of examples of great versus lousy customer service.

The great: For a special occasion, my husband took me to lunch at one of Honolulu's most exclusive French restaurants, where the chef prides himself on being a perfectionist. It's early and we're among the first customers of the day. We order one entree to share, and two appetizers -- mine a seafood bisque. The appetizers arrive. My husband's is delicious, but the soup is so thick and rich that I can take only a few spoonfuls. I push it aside. The waiter comes by and enquires, "You didn't like the bisque?" I respond that it's too rich for me. He removes it and offers to bring a different appetizer. I say no thank you, I'm ready for the main course. The entree arrives, beautifully divided onto two dinner plates, and it's perfection. A palate-cleansing sorbet arrives, along with the manager, who in a quiet tone apologizes for the bisque, explaining explains that someone (whose head has rolled in the kitchen, I'm sure) forgot to dilute the soup base, so I was served just the base! We are not charged for the bisque, and he comps us an additional dessert. We find the mistake amusing and we're very happy campers.

The lousy: A new national chain restaurant opens in Honolulu with great fanfare. A few weeks after the opening, we go there and I order a main course that's served with a side dish of rice. The rice arrives and it's watery, not drained properly. (Now, if there's one thing I know, it's rice... Chinese, Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, Indian, etc.... Rice is a big household staple in Hawaii and most families buy it in 20-pound sacks.) I call over the waiter and tell him that the rice is inedible and I'd like something else instead. He sends over the manager. I tell the her that my rice is too watery and that I'd like something else instead. She gives me a look of distain and announces, "It's supposed to be that way. That's how our customers like it." (What, I'm not a customer?) She does not exchange it for anything else or deduct it from the bill. I write to the company's headquarters with my credentials and relate the incident, offering to teach their chefs (staff recruited and sent over from the mainland) how to cook rice properly and adding, by the way, their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. I get back a "thank you for your comments" form letter. I have never gone back to that restaurant chain again.

[Tess]

SuzySushi, was that place next door to Duke's by any chance?

I had a similar experience at an expensive chain. A manager came by and asked how things were. I said that my dish hadn't come out looking like it sounded on the menu. She went back and got a menu, and came out going through it word by word, trying to convince me my interpretation was wrong. I think she tried to tell me "shoyu salmon" was a type of salmon and that I was wrong to expect the dish to have shoyu in it, but anyway it went on and on. Clearly several ingredients had been left off but she tried to convince me I was wrong, finally saying that "corporate" strictly specified how each dish was made and that there couldn't possibly have been any deviation. The damn thing was sitting there half-eaten but she wouldn't really look at it. I sent an email to headquarters later and got a certificate for a free dessert or some BS like that.

[SuzySushi]

SuzySushi, was that place next door to Duke's by any chance?

←

Nope. Only thing I'll say is that both restaurants are in Waikiki.

[Tess]

SuzySushi, was that place next door to Duke's by any chance?

←

Nope. Only thing I'll say is that both restaurants are in Waikiki.

←

Fair enough!

[FaustianBargain]

Even if the customer is totally in the wrong, as the business owner, restaurateur, etc., don't make a scene.

I agree, but here is the thing I dont get..I have to draw from Randi's example again..why is bringing out the raw crabcakes considered 'creating a scene'? It wasnt abusive? A complaint went to the kitchen. There was no abusiveness or harsh language from the chef. The client herself though that he was being 'defensive'.

I mean..how fine is the line between not pissing off the customer and licking ass/quitely accepting blame for alleged 'bad cooking form'?

edited to add: on a slightly diff note...have you ever come across a restaurant that takes responsibility for food poisoning episodes? Even if they are responsible. sometimes being silent = agreeing. doesnt customer service recommend that the kitchen/management NOT accept 'blame' even though a comp may be offered to keep the customer happy.

Edited March 16, 2005 by FaustianBargain (log)

[FaustianBargain]

Since you brought up Randi again, may I remind you that the 'complaint' that went to the kitchen from the customer was not about the 'pepper', but about the 'filler'?

Maybe you should reread her post then.

However, I was disappointed with them this time. They did not taste the same as last week. They were salty and had much more breading, altho the (sparse) pieces of crab in them were large and tasty. And there was no peppery kick to it like last week.

It just sso happens that the only part of the complaint that the chef addressed was the filler.

Why dont you follow your own advice and reread her post? There was no suggestion that the lack of peppery kick was communicated in the complaint that went to the kitchen. There was, however, a clear mention that there was a complaint about the 'filler' and the confusion that ensued about its meaning.

That quote you pasted was what Randi communicated to us, egullet members, about the lack of peppery taste.

While we are rereading this thread, can you please help me find the bit where I allegedly claimed that a chef's job is tougher than others' jobs. I tried looking and I couldnt find it.

Maybe you jumped to hasty conclusions?

It's alright.

[winesonoma]

Even if the customer is totally in the wrong, as the business owner, restaurateur, etc., don't make a scene.

I agree, but here is the thing I dont get..I have to draw from Randi's example again..why is bringing out the raw crabcakes considered 'creating a scene'? It wasnt abusive? A complaint went to the kitchen. There was no abusiveness or harsh language from the chef. The client herself though that he was being 'defensive'.

I mean..how fine is the line between not pissing off the customer and licking ass/quitely accepting blame for alleged 'bad cooking form'?

←

What is the point in bringing out the raw crab cakes? That's not what was served. The complaint was rather specific and I'm sorry you did not like it , I'll pass that along would have been a better choice. Chef seems a little too upset to me.

[Farns]

Why dont you follow your own advice and reread her post? There was no suggestion that the lack of peppery kick was communicated in the complaint that went to the kitchen. There was, however, a clear mention that there was a complaint about the 'filler' and the confusion that ensued about its meaning.

That quote you pasted was what Randi communicated to us, egullet members, about the lack of peppery taste.

Exactly, we don't know what her actual complaint was. We do know however, that the only part that the chef addressed was the mention of filler. She very well could have mentioned the seasoning. But that is getting off topic. I have a feeling that, if she mentioned that to us, that she probably mentioned it to the owner or her waitress as well.

There is absolutely no reason for the chef to come out with the crabcakes and it indeed causes a scene. How often do you see a chef come out to the dining room with a plate full of raw food, approach a table with the owner and start pointing a the food while talking to a customer? If you were in a restaurant and you saw that happen, would you not look? I am sure everyone sitting near Randi was watching it unfold. I would not like that at all. If the chef felt the need to defend his cakes, all he had to do was come out to the table and explain that there was no filler and tell the customer that he regrets the fact that they feel the cakes were different. That's it.

While we are rereading this thread, can you please help me find the bit where I allegedly claimed that a chef's job is tougher than others' jobs. I tried looking and I couldnt find it.

Maybe you jumped to hasty conclusions?

It's alright.

←

I already addressed that and coceding that point to you in my last post.

"Chefs work very hard. I know. There was no comparison between chefs and the 'others' who also have tough jobs to do."

True.

[designchick88]

Even if the customer is totally in the wrong, as the business owner, restaurateur, etc., don't make a scene.

I agree, but here is the thing I dont get..I have to draw from Randi's example again..why is bringing out the raw crabcakes considered 'creating a scene'? It wasnt abusive? A complaint went to the kitchen. There was no abusiveness or harsh language from the chef. The client herself though that he was being 'defensive'.

I mean..how fine is the line between not pissing off the customer and licking ass/quitely accepting blame for alleged 'bad cooking form'?

edited to add: on a slightly diff note...have you ever come across a restaurant that takes responsibility for food poisoning episodes? Even if they are responsible. sometimes being silent = agreeing. doesnt customer service recommend that the kitchen/management NOT accept 'blame' even though a comp may be offered to keep the customer happy.

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If you work for or with other people, periodically you (generic "you" here) are going to have to lick ass or "eat shit" as we put it at my job. That means sometimes - not always, but sometimes - you will have to apologize for things that aren't your fault, accept blame when you aren't responsible for the infraction, and be nice to people who aren't nice to you. Is it fair? No. Does it make you feel good to have to apologize - or even keep silent - when you feel you aren't in the wrong? No. Is it somewhat humiliating to accept criticism from people who don't know what they're talking about? Yes. Is that how life is? Yes. There's nothing we can do about it. We all have to do it in order to "go along and get along" in the world. Especially if we, in our professions, rely on the goodwill, warm feelings and patronage of other people to make our livings. I have yet to meet anyone anywhere in my life who has not had to take it on the chin occasionally in order to keep a customer, an account or a job. That's life. Obviously, if someone is being abused repeatedly and unfairly they should speak up about it. But there's a difference between being a doormat and being intelligently diplomatic. And there's also a difference between constructive, well-intended criticism that's poorly delivered and mean-spirited nit-picking.

Believe me, I speak from experience. It's a hard lesson I've had to learn. But if I hadn't learned it I would be on welfare right now. Is it more important to make other people see I am right and force others to admit they are wrong 100 percent of the time, or is it more important to be able to make a living and support myself and my family? That was the choice I had to make. The big thing that I eventually realized is that in my work life, 99 percent of the time things are not personal. Taking everything that happens in a job personally is a great way for someone to work themselves into a nervous breakdown, or at least become known as an overly sensitive person no one wants to work with.

So, to me, it doesn't matter if someone is a chef or an accountant or a graphic designer. If someone jumps in your shit at work, to me the best thing to do is handle it with aplomb, being humble if necessary, then go out for a beer after work with some friends and make fun of that person ruthlessly. That's what friends (spouses, partners, acquaintances, etc.) are for - to listen to the things we'd like to say to that idiot boss/customer/coworker but can't. Chefs don't get a break on this because their work is hard or requires training. That can be said of anyone in any job. If someone just can't bring themselves to eat shit for the greater good occasionally, because it goes against their personality or high-minded principles or whatever, they're better off never working in any kind of situation where they have to interface with the public. Or with very many people at all, for that matter.

Edited March 16, 2005 by designchick88 (log)

[FaustianBargain]

Exactly, we don't know what her actual complaint was. We do know however, that the only part that the chef addressed was the mention of filler. She very well could have mentioned the seasoning. But that is getting off topic. I have a feeling that, if she mentioned that to us, that she probably mentioned it to the owner or her waitress as well.

I see.

I already addressed that and coceding that point to you in my last post.

"Chefs work very hard. I know. There was no comparison between chefs and the 'others' who also have tough jobs to do."

True.

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Thanks.

Edited March 16, 2005 by FaustianBargain (log)

[canucklehead]

I think designchick88 has hit some very key points here. At the end of the day - I think that we get too caught up as to who is right or wrong. The issue is Randi did not feel like the crabcakes were as good as they were last time and the issue was in the ingredients.

Good for her for saying so - because she was ASKED. She obviously likes the restaurant and says she will revisit soon. Maybe she will order the crab cakes may be not. If they don't taste the way she remembers then she won't order it again. How many of us complain about a dish 'used to taste so much better' at a restaurant? Alot of us - and it is good that Randi cared enough to speak up to avoid the silent grumbling that most of us would have done instead.

The key thing her is Randi's intentions. They were good. She wasn't being unreasonable, she wasn't trying to be showy, she wasn't trying get food for free.

The Chef bringing out raw food to 'educate' her was simply not useful in addressing the issue. I would have sat there and said - 'so what!?'. How was it useful in any way in addressing her commentary?

Designchick is right - in my experience whenever a situation seems to get out of control - it is no longer about the issue at hand but the baggage and crap being dragged in to it.