pork roast

[russ parsons]

also remember that "meat isn't meat". different meats have different flavors at different temperatures. the sensory guys describe the flavor of rare pork as "metallic" and I agree. I've tried the really low temps and while i have no doubt they are safe, i don't like the way they taste. i prefer my pork at 155 to 160 with a rest. at this point, the meat is still juicy and faintly pink, but the flavor is more developed. also, i should be clear that i am referring to lean roasts such as loin. With a fatty roast such as my beloved Boston butt, you can push it much higher and get really great flavor while still being juicy.

[Sartain]

Just had this question in my Sanitation class test. Strictly from a safety point of view, pork should be cooked to 145F for 15 sec (for chops) or for 4 minutes (for roasts).

As to texture, juiciness, etc., well gosh, that's been really well covered here.

[Dave the Cook]

Besides temperature, you need to consider time at temperature.  Tougness comes largely from collagen, which converts to gelatin.  This takes time.  Roasted or braised meat held at 140F/60C for a while will be more tender than one that is just brought to that temperature and then served.

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I won't argue against the notion that meat brought to temperature and held there (though a 140F holding temp is pretty difficult for most home cooks) will result in a juicy roast. But at that temperature, collagen has nothing to do with it. Collagen doesn't start to melt until a little over 150F. It seems more likely that the 140F scenario results from one of two sets of circumstances:

- a slow technique that allows the proteins to contract slowly, thus minimizing exudation of moisture, or

- in the case of a roast brought to 140F under higher-heat conditions (say 350F), time to rest and redistribute juices under controlled conditions before serving.

[forever_young_ca]

I have read this thread from beginning to end. I want to cook a 4 1/2 lb pork picnic shoulder for Sunday dinner. I am assuming a slow roast is the best for this - am I right? 275 degrees? How long?

Suggestions would be welcome.

[fifi]

You are looking at about 4 or 5 hours. I am going by Dave's post above. Every hunk-o-pork is different so you can't be precise as in x minutes per pound. The best thing to do is plan for it taking extra time. The good news is that it "holds" just about forever. You want to cook this cut through the 170F temperature stall so there is just about no such thing as overcooking it. In this case, you are watching the thermometer, not the clock.

My favorite recipes currently include citrus with garlic, cumin, coriander and black pepper. I have been buying the Goya Mojo Criollo but if you don't have that around just use orange juice sharpened by the addition of lime or lemon and add seasonings to your taste. Go heavy on the garlic.

Of course, there are any number of braising liquids that you could use. I have even dumped a big ole jar of Pace Picante Sauce and a bottle of dark beer in there and it was fabulous. (I think I may have had a few of those when I got that stroke of genius. )

[forever_young_ca]

Thanks Fifi -

So.............if I get this right - I am treating this more like a braise than a roast.... adding liquid.

Question - do I cover the pot? I have available my newly made delicious preserved lemons, so I am thinking into the pot should go a bit of p.lemon, sage, rosemary from my herb garden, onions and garlic, along with some homemade chicken stock for 4 -5 hours at 275?

Am I on the right track? If I'm not please set me straight!

[fifi]

That mixture sounds really good. I have done this cut with a dry rub and dry roasting and it turns out great but I have switched to braising in the past year or so and that has become my preferred method. For me, the dry alternative is my smoker but we aren't doing that here. If dry roasting, I rub with whatever floats my boat and I use a knife to make pockets in between the muscle bundles and get some of that seasoning in there. If you go with the braising approach, you cover the pot. I braise at closer to 250. You want a gentle simmer. It sounds like your proposed mixture could be done "dry" as well. Either way, I don't think you can screw this up unless you undercook it. Or, as long as you don't cremate it . . . er, I mean make carnitas.

[forever_young_ca]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Fifi. This is what I am going to go with I think.

Maybe I will throw some veggies in the pot as well, carrots, etc.

[forever_young_ca]

One more point of discussion - to brown or not to brown the meat.

I brown my pot roasts, but for some reason my instinct tells me not to brown this one.

Comments

[Dave the Cook]

If you're going to braise, brown it. If you're doing a straight roast, it's not necessary. Even at a low temperature, the outside gets golden and crispy. Just make sure to salt the exterior generously.

[forever_young_ca]

Thanks, I will brown it, as it will be braised.

[SethG]

I'm making my own Zuni Cafe mock porcetta tonight, and I already had it in the oven about fifteen minutes at 350 by the time I read this thread and decided to change my approach. I wanted to brown the pork and turn the temp down, but I had some quartered turnips and parsnips in the pan and I didn't think they'd do well with an initial blast of high heat. So I took the skillet out of the oven, removed the root vegetables, dropped a spoonful of duck fat into the pan, and browned the roast on all sides on the stovetop. Then I stuck the veggies back in the pan and returned the skillet to the oven at 275.

Question: Susan, do you brown at high heat in the oven with the veggies in the pan? Or do you do something like my impromptu change of plans this evening? And Rodgers sez to put some stock in the pan after two hours of cooking, but she's presuming two and a half hours of total cooking at a higher temp than I'm using. Should I wait longer to put in the stock, or does it much matter? I don't know what purpose adding that small amount (1/3 cup) of stock really serves, except I guess to keep the vegetables from burning. So maybe my answer is in watching the vegetables.

Thanks to anyone with any thoughts.

[snowangel]

Seth, I do as you did (but know that I know better, I just brown the beast before adding the veg). Browning first is always a good thing to do. I tend to add some stock closer to the beginning -- as in when I remember to do so, knowing that if I promise myself to remember to do so later, I will forget. This is a forgiving dish, even more so when done at the lower temp. That's the only fault I have with this recipe. I do believe that a piece of meat with that much fat and collegen needs to go low and slow.

[SethG]

Thanks, Susan. I added the stock later, and I think my veggies were a little too dried out. I rolled them around in the fat, though, and they were fine. Next time I won't ask a real-time cooking question on Super Bowl Sunday!

[forever_young_ca]

Well, the pork roast is done, and mighty fine it was too!

I have pictures of the process, but alas, not the end result. The hungry masses got to it before I could whip out the camera.

Here are the raw ingredients for the first stage. 4 1/2 lb picnic, garlic, onions, preserved lemons, sage and rosemary.

I took off the plastic netting before I browned the meat, so it fell apart into two pieces after browning. I could have tied it up with kitchen string but was too lazy.

I browned the pork, deglazed the pan with a good glug of white wine, added chicken stock, more wine the pork, and aromatics.

This cooked about 1 1/2 hours before I added carrots and potatoes. At this stage the temp was 140

After 4 hours the temp stalled at 185. I took out the vegetables and meat and let rest while I cooked dumplings in the broth that was left in the pot.

Sliced the meat and served with the veg, dumplings and sauce. It was wonderful. Wish you could see it The smell was divine and the lemon gave a subtle lift to the dish. The pork was succulent - moist and meltingly tender

Thanks to all who gave me suggestions. This one was a winner.

[snowangel]

Thanks, Susan.  I added the stock later, and I think my veggies were a little too dried out.  I rolled them around in the fat, though, and they were fine.  Next time I won't ask a real-time cooking question on Super Bowl Sunday!

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It's less about Super Bowl Sunday here than getting homework done, school lunches prepped, finding hat, boots and mittens, etc. in prep for Monday morning!

Fry up the leftovers with potatoes (which you can top with a poached or over easy egg) for a fast and wonderful dinner early this week.

[CtznCane]

One of my favorite ways for a Boston Butt roast is Rick Bayless's 'Cochinita Pibil' (slow roasted achiote pork in banana leaves.) I've done this several times and it never fails to come out any less than spectacular. It too is more a slow roast, 300 -350 on the grill. It just melts in your mouth. I must say too that I've never had any one of his recipes turn out less than excellent. This one came from his book 'Mexcio One Plate at at TIme.'

[jmbrightman]

I bought an 8lb. pernil at BJ's for all of $8. It is slit all over and rubbed with adobo for the next 36 hours (we have an open house scheduled for Sunday and hope the scent of garlicy roasting pork is as effective as the smell of freshly baked cookies for prospective home buyers). I plan to cook it at 250 for as long as it takes before increaing the temp to crisp the skin. How long do you think it will take to reach a temp of 180 or so? Is 180 the proper temp to pull it from the oven before letting it rest to achieve a pulled pork texture?

[fifi]

I find that the internal temperature on most fatty cuts doesn't get "fork turning tender" until it approaches 200 degees F. I go by my internal remote temperature probe. I am not sure what a pernil is.

[jmbrightman]

I am not sure what a pernil is. 

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I didn't either, until Katie started this thread.

pernil quest