another rum question

[giacomo]

here's another one:

i'm trying to find out about the process of LONDON DOCK BONDING.  From what i've read, myer's had a pre-war (II) rum aged 30 years that would be aged in london warehouses.  the claim is that the dampness of the docks would permeate the rum.  i can't see how this is possible in bottled rums, unless they were just bonding the casks and bottling it in london after 30 years.  i don't know.  if anyone has ANY info about this subject, please post.

also, anything about the bonding process would be helpful,

cheers and kind regards,

giacomo

[Kristian]

If there was such a rum, they would have had to store it in barrels or casks in London and bottle it there. AFAIK, in order to age rum you store it in barrels, because once the rum is in a bottle, it doesn't really age anymore.

[Ed Hamilton]

The only containers used to transport or store rum for many years were oak barrels. When stored in London the colder temperatures reduced the amount of evaporation through the oak but also changed the character, if only slightly, from what would occur in the tropics.

Before the end of the Royal Navy abolishing the tot on July 31, 1970, rum was bought from distillers in the Caribbean and then shipped to London where it was blended and rebottled to be shipped around the world with the Navy. It wasn't uncommon for barrels of aged rum to be misplaced in the warehouses only to be discovered after some time, but it wasn't common to aged rum 30 years or more purely for the consumption of the sailors.

[JOHN REEKIE]

BONDING or BONDED..... Its not a process but a matter of taxation and warehousing. to continue what edd was saying re the navy rums. Each Island making rum and selling to England for blending & distribution to Naval Storage, had Bonded warehouses. Still to be seen on many islands, but not used for rum storage.  The distiller could be payed for the rum he distilled when the rum in barrels was delivered to Bonded Warehouses, to await a ship to transport the rum to England. This could take some time. So there was a formular to calculate the tax for the reduced amount of rum that left, due to the evaporation and angels share.  The taxes were only payed when the rum left the warehouse.

On arrival in Liverpool, Glasgow, Bristol, or London the Barrels were again stored in vast Bonded  warehouses for maturation. where again a scale of evaporation was calculated in relationship to time and quantity. and taxes or the shipper being payed on this reduced amount.

During the Second World War the London Docks Warehouses where  devestatingly bombed leaving rum running in the streets and catching fire. Most Rum producers ie Lambs.were destroyed. But due to having storage in other cities were able to carry on business. Lambs have recently bottled a rum that was in barrel since 1939 in Scotland.  This rum one of our forum members has bought and may be he would like to coment on.

[JOHN REEKIE]

To finish what I was saying in a very hurried way,yesterday.

Bonded warehousing is common and has been for as long as alcohol has been manufactured and stored. This is common to all distilleries not just to 'London Docks' or other British Naval Rum Stores.

A brand name, for a rum no longer produced, 'London Dock' was produced by Newfoundland Liquor Board (Canada).  They imported various rums (mature) stored them ,blended & bottled them. This was popular with the fishermen and sailors out of Newfoundland. 'London Dock' is no longer bottled. 'Screech' rum is still bottled in Newfoundland which is produced by Appletons in Jamaica, then bulk shipped to Canada.

When I mentioned one of our members buying an old 'Lambs Rum' I thought he could inform us more on 'London Dock'. Having done his research in England recently to find his rum, he could have learned a lot more about its history of storage and bonding.

[Bolivar Petit Corona]

Very interesting info.  JOHN, is all rum bulk shipped to Canada?

[JOHN REEKIE]

Well yes and no.

To start with each Province (like States) have their own 'Liquor Boards', (L.B.s) who govern seperately what alcohol is sold in that Province. So the Liquor laws in Quebec, although similar, can be different from Ontario. Dan Smith in Quebec can tell us the state of Rum in Quebec. Having said that each Province can bulk import,dilute,bottle, then distribute to the  L.B.s  their rums. The L.B.s  also do vast testings for quality and poisons and contaminates and it can take two years to get a bottle on to a shelf for sale.

Back to Bulk, the larger companies with bigger brand names will bulk transport to their own bottling plants here.While smaller companies will ship in bottles in cartons. ( I always check the bottom of a carton to see where the box was made, to see where the rum was bottled. ie if its a Jamaican carton the rum was bottled in Jamaica, if its an Ontario carton the Rum was more than likely bottled in Ontario.) The promotional wording used by distillers are very decptive when it comes to where rums are dilstilled or matured or blended or shipped to or bottled. So Appletons, Bacardi, Captain Morgan, Lambs all have Canadian bottling plants where they dilute from cask strength to 40% (80 proof) for sail. This is done for their most popular selling bar & standard rums, but not for their Premium or top shelf rums.

Now comes a twist....All those rums I have mentioned have to say bottled in Ontario and some Product of Ontario. While Mount Gay Rum bottle says Imported ( which sounds better in advertising terms). But Mount gay bulk ships to upper New York State some where, and bottles there then trucking in the cartons/skids.

Product of Ontario is another category of Alcohol, which I do not understand totally. During the old prohibition days alcolhol was distilled and flavoured and labled what ever,and shipped south. this alcohol was made from anything that would ferment and produce sugars.( definitely not cane in Canada).  To me the definition of Rum is that it must be a distilate of sugar cane from sugar cane growing  lands of a certain latitude) Beat sugar or corn or wheat etc makes alcohol not rum.

I have to move to a different terminal and as one can not save in between I will sign off then continue.

[JOHN REEKIE]

There is a practice of taking Cask Strength Rums (bulk rums) and diluting them down to bottling strength, either by diluting with pure distilled water ..ok  -or with pure spring water ..ok but is it reliable .  -or by using low proof, non matured, GRAIN ALCOHOL. Well to dilute strong alcohol with week alcohol to get to 40%abv you can imagine what the proportion is of real rum and how much is "Canadian Rum" that actualy ends up in that  bottled rum.  In Germany this is called (and excuse my translation) Imitation Rum while true rum is called Islanderrum.

Is all rum in Canada Bulk shipped ? Yes and No. And thank goodness it is this way.  So that the everyday bar rums are then bottled here while the premium rums bottled in the island distilleries are not adulterated !

Have you ever noticed that all bulk shipped rums are 40%abv (80 proof). While some of the same rums distillery bottled are 43 -45%Abv (86-90proof) I do not think you will find a North American bottled rum  at any thing but 40%. A lot of the premium rums (imported) one finds are also at the higher alcohol strength and not diluted just for a North American Continental market. I think this applies to the States as well.

Enough said....  lets hear about London Dock history  from someone who knows the history.

[Bolivar Petit Corona]

I just noticed my Canadian bottles of HC7 from Ontario say made in Canada on the bottom.  Don't know if I have one from Quebec or not.

Here's a link other may find usefull, the site for the liquor control bard of Ontario:

http://www.lcbo.com/

[JOHN REEKIE]

I am glad you found the LCBO website. Not to much of interest except to policies unfortunatly no real list of product with prices. This would have been an interesting comparison with the States prices.  Anyway some might find the site interesting.

I will have to go home to read the bottom of my Havana Club 7  bottle and I will look at the bottom of a Carton again.  I think, without checking tonight, that the carton is stamped made in cuba. While the bottle could well be Canadian. With our open trade policy with Cuba,  Havana Club distillery could well find their bottles cheaper in Canada. I will check both out tonight.

You also have to consider that Havana Club has a trading partnership with The Paul Ricard Group in France, who are promoting Havana Club everywhere except the States.

We should have started a new thread. Otherwise The London Docks will get lost in the fog and like all good mystery novels we might never hear or learn the answer.

John Reekie

[Bolivar Petit Corona]

The site USED to be searchable. :confused:

[JOHN REEKIE]

This thread is getting to tangled.

So I will start another with the topic of -"Havana Club 7yr in Canadian Bottles" - This will free up this one for responces on- "London Dock Bonding", where it started.

I have gone searching .... John Reekie