Pate a Choux - The Topic - Ask Questions Here.

[SuzySushi]

Did you puncture each puff after baking to let out the excess steam?

[mukbo]

Hi,

Thanks for the prompt reply.

I didn't puncture them.

How do you puncture each choux?

Could you explain more?

I am clueless..

[K8memphis]

I never heard of spraying with water. Did you bake them long enough??? And you can pull the soft membrane out of the inside and discard it too so it does not redistribute the moisture, y'know. How hot was your oven?? Your batter looks good.

And I bet you could re-bake any unfilled ones you have to dry them out a bit and crisp them up.

They sure photographed pretty!!!

[chromedome]

Spraying water = huh?

Once they're nicely golden, turn down the oven to about 200F and let them ride until they're nice and crisp. Pull one out, and listen to it...you should hear little "rice krispie" noices from a fully-dried out puff or eclair.

[simdelish]

There are two school of thought: to puncture or not. I used to, but then read not necessary, and I found that to be true, and a time saving step. However, I do bake them at 425 for ten minutes, and then quickly open and close the door, and turn down to 375 for another 10 or 15 minutes, depending on size and color, to dry out a bit.

Because I always make mine before I need (2 or 3 days), they do get a little soggy being sealed up and stored. So-- I put them in the oven for a minute or two prior to filling, to crisp them up again. HTH

[Pam R]

I slice mine open once they're out of the oven and let them dry (after taking out any of the soft insides.

I also find that I am usually tempted to take them out of the oven too early. Once they turn golden brown, I leave them in the oven a while longer. It's hard to tell from your pictures (which look lovely), but you probably could have cooked them a little longer.

I've never sprayed them with water or punctured them.... (ummm.. or what K8memphis said)

[mukbo]

Thank you guys.

I learned very very important tips. I am sure next time my choux will be crispy.

If you want to get the effect of steam ejected oven (for crispy crust of bread),

Spray some water to the surface of the choux.

[Wendy DeBord]

First...........I suspect that Papa Beard uses a mix to keep the product standard in all locations. So I do think that may prevent you from ever getting an exact duplicate of their cream puff. Well, unless you can buy professional mixes thru bakery sources.

BUT you should be able to make an even better tasteing one, actually!

Personally, I don't like to puncture and dry out my puffs. I'd rather see you bake them longer (your's are a bit pale, but nice looking) so the exterior crisps up more, yet the center remains somewhat moist.

[sanrensho]

First...........I suspect that Papa Beard uses a mix to keep the product standard in all locations.

All of the Papa Beard choux pastry is made in one of three central plants and shipped frozen to franchises. The fillings are made at each location.

http://starbulletin.com/2005/03/02/features/story1.html

[Lesley C]

Your choux pastry is too thick. Another egg or two should help. It should have a nice gloss but hold its shape when piped.

It also looks undercooked to me. Bake it at 375 for about 30 minutes. It should be a deep golden brown -- not just golden.

Edited June 14, 2005 by Lesley C (log)

[GaryK]

Just to add my 2 cents. I very new to this and tried pate choux as one of my first pastry doughs. Had exactly the same problem you did. I second the recommendation to bake them longer. The water is not necessary and will make them soggy (as you have found out). I can't tell if puncturing them (with tip of paring knife) made any difference. You can freeze them, but if you refrigerate them, they get soggy. Also once filled, you have only a few hours at most before they get soggy. Other than that, they're easy : )

[koffiemousse]

mukbo,

I don't know if your recipe calls for milk or water but water will give you a cripier (if that's the right word) end result rather then the one made with milk.

hope this helps

AShiana

[Wendy DeBord]

mukbo,

I don't know if your recipe calls for milk or water but water will give you a cripier (if that's the right word) end result rather then the one made with milk.

hope this helps

AShiana

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I'll ditto that experience. All water does bake crisper and shinier for me.

Also ditto Lesleys remark about the puff being too thick......I missed that.

[Wendy DeBord]

I was just reading the article about Papa Beards and ran across something that stumped me.........I'm hoping someone else might be familar with this.

In the article, it says "It's a double crust incorporating a tradtional choux and a pie crust type dough.", Not just choux paste. Which also helps explain to me why these cream puffs are worth waiting hours in line to buy. I've never had a cream puff THAT exciting worth waiting.

That's different!!!

Yet..........strikingly familar, in that I make a breakfast pastry that seems pretty similar. My pastry is a shortbread/pie dough base pressed into a long rectangle. On top of that crust I put my raw choux paste and bake until light golden. The choux paste isn't like a cream puff as in you don't let it bake up into a puff........you underbake it so it remains soft in contrast to the shortbread base. I do several twists on that adding more flavor, fillings, toppings, etc... I think the original source for that recipe was Betty Crocker..........I'll look thru my book later and tell you the source.

Soooooo when you eat these cream puffs we need more details on how they taste texture wise. How do they put the layer of shortbread in the puff (can you see it there lining the cream puff if you cut one in half)?.........you can't before baking, can you (what....dip the shortbread in the choux paste......... but shortbread isn't going to hollow out)? Is the choux paste on a base of pastry (somewhat like I described above)?

[sanrensho]

Soooooo when you eat these cream puffs we need more details on how they taste texture wise. How do they put the layer of shortbread in the puff (can you see it there lining the cream puff if you cut one in half)?.........you can't before baking, can you (what....dip the shortbread in the choux paste......... but shortbread isn't going to hollow out)? Is the choux paste on a base of pastry (somewhat like I described above)?

Here are some photos that will give you a better idea of the texture. Looks to me like choux pastry inside of a flaky pie type crust, although I have yet to try one.

Photos are from this blog:

http://onokinegrindz.typepad.com/ono_kine_..._papas_cre.html

[SuzySushi]

Wendy, the Hawaii forum has a photo thread on Papa Beard's cream puffs. skchai couldn't get their "secret recipe," but maybe you can figure some things out from the photos!

[Wendy DeBord]

The last photo in the link you gave Suzy......the close up of the puff..........it looks fried to me. Not baked. But the photos in this thread looks baked.

In fact, the photo in this thread could have a choux puff baked on a shortdough base as I mentioned. But probably not.. a taste test is needed.

The custard filling the girl is stirring in Suzy's link is kind of weird, not exactly pastry cream. Looks like a very eggy pastry cream mix. And what's with the photo showing unbaked puffs? I thought they were all made in their main factory and shipped to the stores?

[nightscotsman]

Your choux pastry is too thick. Another egg or two should help. It should have a nice gloss but hold its shape when piped.

It also looks undercooked to me. Bake it at 375 for about 30 minutes. It should be a deep golden brown -- not just golden.

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I completely agree with Leslie - dough too thick and bake longer.

As for the "tradtional choux and a pie crust type dough" option, Bo Friberg has a recipe for what he calls "Swedish Profiteroles" on page 597 of the fourth edition of the Professional Pastry Chef. It calls for a thin disk of sweet short dough placed on top of the piped choux before baking. I've tried the recipe in the past and liked them quite a bit - the short dough adds crunch and flavor. Something like this may be what you're looking for.

[rooftop1000]

Your choux pastry is too thick. Another egg or two should help. It should have a nice gloss but hold its shape when piped.

It also looks undercooked to me. Bake it at 375 for about 30 minutes. It should be a deep golden brown -- not just golden.

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I completely agree with Leslie - dough too thick and bake longer.

As for the "tradtional choux and a pie crust type dough" option, Bo Friberg has a recipe for what he calls "Swedish Profiteroles" on page 597 of the fourth edition of the Professional Pastry Chef. It calls for a thin disk of sweet short dough placed on top of the piped choux before baking. I've tried the recipe in the past and liked them quite a bit - the short dough adds crunch and flavor. Something like this may be what you're looking for.

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This sounds like what I have read about Papa...it is pastry wrapped around the choux and they are baked onsite from frozen....

T

[mukbo]

I agree that my paste is too thick and needed to bake longer.

I used Julia Child's recipe, which tells me to use water and milk combination.

My Korean and Japanese book only use water.

Next time I will just use water.

What I found in my korean book, on top of piped choux paste,

they piped almold cream. To my eye, It looks really really crispy.

Thanks for all of your tips and My mission to find crispy choux will be comtinued.

Oh by the way, Nightscotman, can you share the recipe for 'Swedish Profiteroles '?

It sound like I must try.

Edited June 17, 2005 by mukbo (log)

[K8memphis]

In the article, it says "It's a double crust incorporating a tradtional choux and a pie crust type dough.", Not just choux paste. Which also helps explain to me why these cream puffs are worth waiting hours in line to buy. I've never had a cream puff THAT exciting worth waiting.

That's different!!!

Yet..........strikingly familar, in that I make a breakfast pastry that seems pretty similar. My pastry is a shortbread/pie dough base pressed into a long rectangle. On top of that crust I put my raw choux paste and bake until light golden. The choux paste isn't like a cream puff as in you don't let it bake up into a puff........you underbake it so it remains soft in contrast to the shortbread base. I do several twists on that adding more flavor, fillings, toppings, etc... I think the original source for that recipe was Betty Crocker..........I'll look thru my book later and tell you the source.

Oh, oh a Danish Puff???????!!!!!! I've made those!!

Like this one--clicky here.

[Wendy DeBord]

Yes, K8Memphis. Although I use a slightly different recipe. I put raspberry preserves, pineapple preserves (and any preserve for that matter) frangipane, cheesecake filling (for danish...any danish filling too) between my shortdough bottom and my choux paste top.

I also add more flavors to my choux paste using extracts, oils, fruit zest, etc... sometimes. Last, I bake on my almonds or nuts, that way it holds more (use an egg wash to glue on the nuts before baking).

YEAH NEIL! I'll definately have to give that recipe a try the next time I'm making petite fours. I'm excited, can't wait to taste that combo. Wish I could try papabeards version. It must be pretty good to form lines..........

[reid]

Yes, K8Memphis. Although I use a slightly different recipe. I put raspberry preserves, pineapple preserves (and any preserve for that matter) frangipane, cheesecake filling (for danish...any danish filling too) between my shortdough bottom and my choux paste top.

I also add more flavors to my choux paste using extracts, oils, fruit zest, etc... sometimes. Last, I bake on my almonds or nuts, that way it holds more (use an egg wash to glue on the nuts before baking).

YEAH NEIL! I'll definately have to give that recipe a try the next time I'm making petite fours. I'm excited, can't wait to taste that combo. Wish I could try papabeards version. It must be pretty good to form lines..........

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Blogger Makiko Itoh at i was just really very hungry, posted a two part series last year on making choux pastry and cream puffs. You might want to try out her recipe. Worked quite well for me.

[onehsancare]

It must be pretty good to form lines..........

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There are always lines at McDonald's.

[Wendy DeBord]

As for the "tradtional choux and a pie crust type dough" option, Bo Friberg has a recipe for what he calls "Swedish Profiteroles" on page 597 of the fourth edition of the Professional Pastry Chef. It calls for a thin disk of sweet short dough placed on top of the piped choux before baking. I've tried the recipe in the past and liked them quite a bit - the short dough adds crunch and flavor. Something like this may be what you're looking for.

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I made Friebergs Swedish Profiteroles this past week. I really liked it. Typically I'm not crazy about whip cream filled choux puffs (boring).........but the addition of the crunchy super-sweet short dough makes these cream puffs very good.

I didn't roll my short dough out, instead I pinched off pieces and flattened them in my palms then placed them on the freshly piped out choux paste. I haven't taken a photo of them (yet) but you can see the short dough on top of the finished puffs. Where the dough ends on the sides of the round puff. So I'm thinking if Papa Beard is doing similar you/I can't see if in the photo linked. The linked photo looks like a plain choux puff.

Did yours look different too Neil?