"The Bread Baker's Apprentice" by Reinhart

[glossyp]

<b>Vengroff</b>, thanks for answering the question about the camera. I am in the process of deciding on a new one and the info was most helpful. Mahalo!

So, I did make the Anadama bread for the dinner and it came out just fine but due to several variables, the amount of flour I needed to get the dough to the point where it wasn't really sticky was almost a third more than the recipe called for. I used Bob's Red Mill Unbleached Bread Flour instead of the King Arthur which I normally use and it was a very, very wet and rainy day. I used the full flavor molasses so the color came out quite dark compared to Peter's (he suggested using a lighter molasses but we don't mind the stronger flavor.) The bake time was just under 40 minutes.

1st proof - the smell of the molasses and cornmeal is quite intoxicating!

Cooling on the rack - we were running late so the bread on the rack went into a low cardboard box and I carried it on my lap to our destination.

Ready to serve - it went great with the pork chops in maple/bourbon/pepper pan sauce. Most of the group ate it without butter, using it to mop up sauce.

Anxious to see what everyone else has been baking! Can't wait for my Oregon Trail Starter to arrive. Hopefully, it will be this coming week. A Happy Valentine's to all!

[FoodMan]

Great baking everyone!! These brioche look awsome, I made them several times but I do not have the molds so I either bake like a loaf or use one of PR instrucions to shape and put it in muffin cups.

That Anadama looks perfect as well. I love it but my wife, alas, is not too crazy about the crunchy polenta that is used.

As for the ciabatta, Behemoth, Vengroff is probably correct. I would guess it needs to be wetter, and handled gently so as to preserve the air bubbles.

Tonight I am baking the Multigrain Bread Extraoridinaire which is PR's take on Straun(sp?) bread. This has been a staple in my house since I tried it a few months ago. It really makes the best toast both in texture and taste. I try to make it at least once a month. More to follow.

Elie

[vengroff]

This moring I made pain ancienne. It's amazing that those cavernous voids in the crumb are the end results of such a simple technique.

I started with 400g of bread flour and used the percentages in the book.

Here's how the dough looked just after mixing. It's quite cold at this point because of the ice water. It's very wet, but somewhat gummy and holds together well.

After overnighting in the fridge and then spending two more hours on top of the fridge the dough was double its original bulk and just below room temperature.

I used a spatula to turn it out of the bowl, repeatedly dipping in water to prevent sticking and working as gently as possible in order not to degass the dough. Reinhart is right about the need for a ton of flour in order to be able to handle the wet sticky dough. Here it is after rounding and resting for a few minutes.

The next step is to carefully cut it with the scraper. Dipping the scraper in cold water and then pushing straight down pinches the dough together and seals it reasonably well.

The dough is really soft and loose and this point, and I wasn't quite sure about how I was going to stretch it. It turned out that letting gravity do most of the work was a perfectly good approach. The mere act of lifting the sections of dough with heavily floured hands caused them to stretch out to the right length. Here they are on the peel just before going in the oven.

As before, I used a pan of water heated to boiling on the stovetop and then put in the oven on the rack below the stone. Someone asked earlier what kind of pan I use. It's a 2qt AllClad. I also sprayed the oven walls this time, once 30 seconds after the bread went in and once 30 seconds after that.

I pulled the water pan out of the oven at the 10 minute mark, then baked for another 12. At that point the internal temp was 208F so I pulled the bread. Here it is cooling.

Finally, here are some close ups of the crust to go along with the crumb picture from the beginning. I brushed a bit of the excess flour off to expose the crust a little more.

I said it before, but I still can't believe how simple this approach was. You have to be a little careful handling the fragile dough, but other than that this bread pretty much takes care of itself.

As always, comments and criticism are appreciated.

[glossyp]

<b>Vengroff</b>, your timing is perfect. I just now finished making the dough for the pain ancienne (this is my second time making it) and put it in the frig. Your photos and complete description of how you handled the dough will definitely be helpful when I make the bread tomorrow. The first batch I made (a few weeks ago) didn't have a really crisp crust and while the crumb was pretty good it wasn't as nice as yours. Thanks for posting such detailed information. I really appreciate it!

[Behemoth]

SethG, thanks for your advice and link -- I had much better results this time:

This is by far the most delicate dough I've ever handled...I tried to keep it as wet as possible and did as little mixing as I felt I could get way with. The folding method as explained in the thread you linked is really interesting. manipulating the dough was like trying to hold an infant!

The next time I do this I may leave it in a little longer -- the internal temp was about 200 when I took it out, whereas PR says 205. The one thing I will need to get good at is getting the dough in, and water poured as fast as possible. My oven really doesn't have as much power as I would like so I need to spare all the heat I can. Maybe I will try vengroffs method of putting a pan of boiling water in the oven instead. Those pain a l'ancienne loaves are really something to work up to.

Still, I was pretty happy. My results tasted amazing this time, the big holes really do make a difference in flavor.

So for next week I need to decide if I want to work on this recipe again. Part of me wants to get this one perfect before moving on, but the other part of me wants to play with razors.

[SethG]

Behemoth: gorgeous!

Vengroff: magnifique!

I'm kind of in a sourdough rut. I gotta break out of the routine and get back to these rustic big-holed breads.

[FoodMan]

Here is last week's Multigrain bread. Sorry it took me a while to download the pic.

Vengroff, these look excellent.

Behemoth, I am glad you got much better results this time. That is exactly how it should look.

Elie

[Marcia]

vengroff, wonderful job, thanks for your pictures! Your Pain a L'ancienne looks fantastic and I bet it tastes great too!

Behemoth, your ciabatta looks nice too. You would love Pain a L'ancienne, it's easy to make and you normally get a rewarding result.

SethG, nice to see you around here! I read all the threads from the PR's Q&A and everyone there seemed so professional. I love the part in the book where he says that teaching someone is to hand the power to this person, it's really touching. Oh, and if you happen to make a sourdough please post here too, then maybe we can all get inspired and learn a bit more too.

Elie, wow great multigrain loaf! Lovely colour and the texture looks so fluffy and light!

--

I've been baking Pane Siciliano again and again . I just wanted to be sure it wasn't first time luck, you know? It's my favourite bread so far and I'm so happy that now I can actually make and eat my own bread, that it's far better than most of the poor breads you find in this town... It really lifts my mood .

Marcia

[SethG]

SethG, nice to see you around here! I read all the threads from the PR's Q&A and everyone there seemed so professional. I love the part in the book where he says that teaching someone is to hand the power to this person, it's really touching. Oh, and if you happen to make a sourdough please post here too, then maybe we can all get inspired and learn a bit more too. 

...

I've been baking Pane Siciliano again and again  ...

←

You'd get bored with my pictures pretty fast. I bake bread every two or three days, and usually it's sourdough! I vary the amount of wheat germ/whole wheat/rye that I add to keep it from getting too repetitive. But seeing all these loaves makes me want to branch out a little more, like I used to.

I also love that Pane Siciliano. I posted a picture of mine a loooong time ago that I may dig up and link to here later.

[FoodMan]

It really is a very satisfying "hobby" that benefits everyone. I love to bake bread and it has been a quasi-resolution of mine not to buy supermarket bread ladden with fat, corn syrup along with God knows what else. I am proud to say that this year we bought bread only once. The rest of the time I bake, at least once a week and I try to vary, but my standbys are three breads, a sourdough white (sometimes I mix some rye in it) based on Jackal10's recipe, the multigrain bread form PR apprentice, and the best wheat loaf ever called "Robin's Bread" from the Alford/Duguid book, this is what I baked last night after a long retardation, it is lovely.

Elie

[rcaffelle]

Made the Italian Bread yesterday for a spaghetti and meatball dinner. Love this soft bread that you really have to pull on to take a bite. First loaf was just topped with butter. Froze the second loaf and will make a chipotle garlic bread with it next week. I accidentally made the biga with AP flour and didn't even realize until the next day when I went to make the dough and noticed the wrong container of flour on the counter. I weigh flour so I think the effect was minimal. This is the first bread I've made with a KA mixer. I had always done it by hand. I like how I don't need to add flour like I do when kneading by hand. Also I think the mixer gave better gluten development than I do by hand with the higher protein flour. This is my favorite thread on the net. Keep it coming!

rich

[glossyp]

My pain ancienne didn't turn out so well. On a positive note the crust was very crisp and nice. Thanks, I'm sure, to using Vengroff's boiling water method. Everything was going well until the actually shaping of the dough. I had a hard time getting clean cuts with the dough scraper even though I was dipping in cold water, then it stretched out too much as I tried to place it on the parchment so there wasn't any oven spring. Though the bread had quite a few holes, it wasn't particularly light.

Any thoughts on what would have happened if I had recombined the pieces and tried to shape again? Probably not a good idea but just wondering.

Oh well, back to the kitchen and try again. After all, it's not like it was inedible unlike some of my earlier attempts!

[FoodMan]

You can certainly combine them again. The only problem is that you might end up with a dough that it too deflated, but you should still get a good result.

Another tip is to cut the dough into 4 not six pieces, gently flatten each one without deflating the air bubbles too much and roll up like a traditional baguette. I do this all the time.

Elie

[Marcia]

Glossyp, i'm sorry that your pain a l'ancienne didn't turn out well... Maybe you can combine the remaining dough, stretching and folding like ciabatta and let it rest for another hour or so? I'm not sure, it's just a thought because in the recipe PR says you can let it rest for another hour and it will get a ciabatta style bread...

[snowangel]

I now have my own copy of the book (Half-Price books, $8.98). The slip cover is missing. I'm thinking that there is Pain a L'ancienne in the very near future.

So, my question. I have a round pizza stone. It is cracked. It hasn't bugged me until now, but am thinking that I should probably should. Perhaps I'm just seeking approval from this august body to justify yet ANOTHER kitchen purchase.

[glossyp]

Aloha everyone. I decided to make the Marbled Rye Bread (pg. 183) and it was really easy. I prepped the bowls for the light and dark rye doughs at the same time and then mixed and kneaded one right after the other. The kneading only took a few minutes and this dough is super easy to work with which is kind of a relief after the struggles with the wetter doughs. (I will keep working on those of course but thought this bread would be good with a corned beef dinner.) The doughs proofed in under an hour. I did a spiral batard. The final proof was 40 minutes and the bake time was 30 minutes- the dough was at 200F when I pulled it out. I heeded Peter's advice and let it cool for 2 hours before slicing. Highly recommended bread for the taste and especially a good one to try for those just starting out baking.

<b>Snowangel</b>, I would never discourage anyone from buying something for the kitchen especially if it has to do with baking!

[FoodMan]

That is a fine looking marbled loaf, glossyp. I made this once a while back and baked in a loaf pan. I am not sure why I never made it again, it was very good. I need to try it again soon.

How did you get the dark rye so dark? did you use cacao powder like I remember him recommending?

Elie

[glossyp]

How did you get the dark rye so dark? did you use cacao powder like I remember him recommending?

←

<b>Elie</b>,

Thanks for your kind comments about the bread - it was one of those rewarding bread experiences!

Regarding the color, Peter recommended liquid caramel coloring which I didn't have and suggested cacao powder or instant coffee as substitutes though he said they might give a bitter taste. I used instant coffee but with less water to dilute it than the recipe called for to get a bit more color. I couldn't detect any coffee flavor or bitterness to the bread at all.

Edited March 1, 2005 by glossyp (log)

[kitchenmage]

what a lovely and appetizing collection of bread!

I feel almost off-topic here because I am not baking some form of baguette, but I'll be brave and hopeful and ask anyway...

Can we talk about bagels for a minute? I have the sponge for the bagels in the BBA sitting on my counter, waiting for the rest of the flour and stuff to be added and I am really skeptical. It looks like I'd be lucky to get more than another cup of flour into it, let alone more than three. (the recipe calls for a total of 7.5 cups of flour and 2.5 cups of water)

Yeah, I know this is stiff dough, but I've been making bagels for years (ok, decades, but that makes me sound old), recently using minor personal variations on the recipe in Crust and Crumb, so I think I have a clue as to desired outcome. And this just looks thick and stringy (gluten is good!) and unlikely to resolve into real bagels given the rest of the recipe. In fact, it looks so unlikely I went looking for Peter's website to see if there was an errata sheet--is it true he has no website?

Has anyone made the bagels from BBA? Did you also look askance at it during the process and it turned out anyway? Am I going to break a wrist kneading this stuff?

edited to add: Well, that's what I get for doubting Br. Peter's formula... I ended up kneading in the last 2 cups of flour, over the course of most of an hour (alternating kneading and mini-autolyses while working in the flour slowly) but the dough was actually very nice to work with by the time i was done and the bagels are in the refrigerator, looking promising... and since i have lox on hand, i think we'll be having fresh bagels and lox for brunch...

Edited March 5, 2005 by kitchenmage (log)

[rcaffelle]

Made a batch of bagels today/yesterday.

Very easy, first time I've ever made bagels. This rack has a couple of 'everything' and the rest garlic. Used KA Sir Lancelot flour, nondiastatic malt powder.

First imagegullet attempt:

rich

[glossyp]

Your bagels are awesome! How did they taste and what was the crumb like? Looks like you have the image thing wired so post some more photos. I haven't baked anything since the rye loaf but since seeing your bagels I think I need to give them a try. Plus, the dearly beloved's stepdad is coming to town and that way I won't have to buy them. Thanks for posting!

[Marcia]

Hello everyone!

I'm currently trying to open the door of the Wonderful World of Sourdough Bread. But I'm still struggling with the key (the starter) and I do need some help...

I'm on my second attempt of making the sourdough starter, using the Seed Culture recipe on page 229. The first attempt was disastrous as on the second day part of the starter found its way out during the night (the container was too small) and the next day it completelly stoped making bubbles, so I threw it away and started again.

Here's my diary of this new attempt:

Day 1

4.25 oz Rye Flour

6 oz water

Day 2

After 24 hours: some rise, just a bit, the starter looked puffed.

Added:

4.5 oz Strong Bread Flour

4 oz water

Day 3

After 24 hours: huge rise, it's triple the size and lots of bubbly froth on top.

Discarted half of the starter.

Added:

4.5 oz Strong Bread Flour

4 oz water

Day 4 - TODAY (14th March)

After 12 hours: little rise, some few bubbles on surface but no froth at all. According to the book, it should double or triple the size today and for me, the starter looks flat and not very excited to grow up...

My questions:

Am I doing something wrong?

Was my starter read on Day 2? I felt so bad throwing away half of that...

Temperature here inside our flat is around 22ºC (71.6ºF), is that the reason why my starter is so slow?

My MAIN question:

What should I do now? Should I wait until it doubles the size before I feed again? Even if it takes longer than 24 hours?

Any inputs or comments will be very appreciate!

Cheers, everyone!

Marcia

Edited March 14, 2005 by Marcia (log)

[jackal10]

You are doing fine. The bugs take a while or the optimum ones to establish, although the fast growing sugar eaters will zoom ahead and then drop out.

The temperature is a bit cold - 85F is optimum. Move it closer to a radiator, or over a pilot light, or over a pan of warm water?

I think you are not feeding it often enough. I would add more flour and water (I use equal amounts by volume, to give a thick batter consistency) twice a day.

If your water has a high chlorine content you might consider using bottled water.

[Marcia]

Jackal10, thank you for your reply. I turned on the oven and now the room is warmer. I'll buy some bottled water. I was using filtered tap water but I live in a area of very hard water and maybe it's not very good...

Do you feed it twice a day? I was feeding only every 24 hours like the book says. How much should I feed it? It weighs 16.5oz right now. Should I give 8oz (flour + water) twice a day then? But then... what about all this thing about double or triple the original size...? Am I not suppose to wait for that before feeding it? Bit confused now...

Thanks again for your help! By the way, i read your thread on eGCI about sourdough bread 1 billion times . I saw your starter in a the Tesco bag, is that from UK?

Marcia

[jackal10]

I'm in Cambridge UK. Yes it was a Tesco bag! Do you want some?

Traditionally you feed 2/3rds, that is 1/3rd of the previous starter to 1/3rd water and 1/3rd flour, throwing the surplus starter away, if you are up to volume. Often these recipes were for commercial bakeries needing to generate large amounts of sponge starter.

For normal baking I now take 1 tbs of starter and use it to innoculate a cup of water and a cup of flour, and incubate for 4 hours, then its ready. I know Sam (slkinsey) has views and has posted here about refreshing from very small amounts of mother culture.

I wouldn't go on volume increase, since that depends on many things. If the starter is a wet batter like poolish it won't rise much, but will show more bubbles on the surface. If its a more dough-like, then cutting it should show small bubbles on the cut surface.

Edited March 14, 2005 by jackal10 (log)