A chat with chef Igles Corelli

[Igles Corelli]

Chef, thank you for joining us on eGullet. I will preface my question to say that I love both Italy and Italian food of all stripes. I particularly love the fact that Italy is leading the charge in the battle to maintain the biodiversity of our global food supply. How, if at all has the Slow Food Movement effected your cooking and your view of food? Do you feel that the movement is compatible with creative and avant-garde cooking? Ifso, please explain why and if not, why not. Thanks again for your thoughts.

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Dear Docsconz, I think that any chef in the world should be grateful to Slow Food Movement for their defense of biodiversity and small producers. I don't know if it has affected my attitude towards cooking. I guess it has. I know Petrini since ever. I was present at TerraMadre conference in Turin in 2004 and I was next to him when he declared "Next year we'll have here all the chefs from all over the world". He smiled when I told him: "One is here already"

The best chef in the world would be nothing without good ingredients. In your signature you quote a sentence of Ferran Adria that could as well be mine. I subscribe it 100%.

Let me also add that many chefs in Italy have done a lot to support small producers of high quality food, using them in their kitchens, quoting them in the menus, promoting them among customers, sometimes even selling them in their restaurants. Small producers can't afford the traditional distribution. They risk the extintion, also because our institutions are not doing much to protect our peculiarities within the EEC regulations. A good restaurant, or a network of restaurants, needs small quantities and can afford to pay a higher price for quality food. Italy is so rich of typical products and it would be impossible to know many of them without Slow Food. Now they are introducing in a larger community and this is great.

The second part of your question is a bit more complicated. Actually Slow Food concept may appear more concerned with past traditions rather than with avant-gard or creative cookery. Restaurants quoted in their guides are usually simple "osterie" or "trattorie" where the menu reflects the local traditions and general setting avoids luxury. My opinion on this respect is that creativity can be expressed also through simplicity and that tradition in cooking is the slow response to social and cultural changes. I could say that tradition is not a still picture but a movie played in slow motion. If avant-garde means industry, than Slow Food is not compatible at all. But the movement created by Petrini is promoting a revolutionary idea with a very long historical background. The concept that the Earth is a unique and quite small country, where different people with same rights live, is probably 2000 years old, maybe more. Besides humans, there are other living organisms that deserve care and respect, also in our interest. This is avant-garde today.

Igles

[chefzadi]

Chef Corelli-

I find myself eagerly anticipating your responses. Your wife's writing style is so lyrical and warm. They are like honey on my computer screen. Again your honesty and insightfullness cannot be mentioned enough. Your accounts resonate deeply inside me on a personal and professional level. I would love it if you wrote an autobiography or a collection essays. I would tell all my students to read it as a shining example of what a great Chef is, does and understands about food as well as "the business." Your expansive, detailed knowledge can only from years and years of real life experience.

I agree about being behind in marketing. Even Spanish and French chefs have a long way to go before we catch up with American chefs.

[Igles Corelli]

Chef thank you for joining us here on egullet. 

I assume your assoication with Slow foods is a natural one with Northern Italy's standard of earth to mouth. 

On our last trip to Italy we went to Il Rigoletto in Reggiolo amoung others and found it good, but somewhat outside would I would expect for restraurants in Emilia-Romagna.  How does your food compare to the foods you would expect to see in the region?

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Hello Irodguy! My replies to Francesco and Fifi are a partial answer to your question. Rigoletto is an outstanding restaurant. I know Gianni Amato quite well (by the way, he's not skinny at all!!! ) and let me say first that he is not precisely from Emilia Romagna. He moved in Reggiolo few years ago from Aulla, a small town on the border between Liguria, Tuscany and Emilia. This could be one reason for which his cuisine doesn't comply with expectable Emilia's standards.

To answer about my food, I'd rather know how is Emilia Romagna food in your expectations. I may guess that you refer to Tagliatelle with ragù alla bolognese, or Lasagne al forno, Cotechino con lenticchie, Tortellini in brodo etc. etc. These are traditional dishes. I prepare the "ragù" in the traditional way (minced pork and beef meat stirred in a vegetables "soffritto", and a quite prolongued cooking after adding tomatoes) and I use it, together with béchamel to stuff Lasagne, but my Lasagna is cooked in single portions, with an unusual shape (it is not a flat and soft square, made by layers of pasta and sauce) and it is served with a parmesan cheese sabayon, flavoured with a bit of nutmeg.

I usually prepare the ragù for Tagliatelle with a cooking technique diferent from the traditional one. Each ingredient is cooked separately in a pan, at high temperature and for a very short time. I wish that colour and consistency don't differ too much from the original. At every passage I degrease the pan with stock (vegetable or meat) and let the liquid reduce. In this way I obtain almost a sauce, enriched by the flavours of each single ingredient. I put them together only when I season the pasta. The result is that you may feel the typical taste of each ingredient, on a basis which is the combination of all.

I hope that you succed to understand me. To do it is much simpler than to explain.

Igles

[francesco]

Melly and Franco Solari are very good friends for us. She is a superb chef, one of those able to perform tradition respectfully but with a contemporary approach. They both highlighted Ligurian cookery, which, to me, is one of the most "modern" of Italian regional cuisines, bringing its essentiality near to perfection. I wish I could taste their food more often! It's a pity that their restaurant is in some way neglected today by Italian critics ... Someone who still today prepares the pesto sauce with "mortaio e pestello", someone who cooks Rabbit with black olives and herbs as she does, or a place where you feel the warmth of a family as it is at Ca' Peo restaurant would deserve much more attention.

..............

Dear Igles and Pia,

I am happy to see that many of the arguments you put forward do seem to coincide with my own view. I am one of those who are conducting a small battle on this forum on behalf of higher-end restaurants in Italy. The two of you with many of the colleagues you cite elsewhere are part of that "crazy" people category who have decided to give up easier profits in the pursuit of the defense of a piece of Italian gastronomic tradition and I think we should all be very grateful for that.

I cannot agree more with you on the Italian public's attitude. Indeed in the quote that you cite about Italians and 55 million experts, the emphasis is on the fact that they *believe to be* rather than *are* experts. The true experts are unfortunately few and far between.

I am particularly pleased to see that you cite with affection some of my "heroes" such as Cantarelli, Bergese and the Solari family. I was recently in a restaurant in Santa Margherita Ligure and I was very happy to discover very clear "traces" of Nino Bergese in the food (the chef trained with Mary Barale in Boves) so perhaps not all is lost

The Solari family is very close to my heart for what they are doing for my beloved ligurian cuisine and for the fact that they really get little recognition. I visited them over Christmas and I hope to be able to write something about them and their restaurant if I get a chance because they really deserve it.

Speaking of Cantarelli, I really do believe that what they did could be a model for the "Italian way" to gastronomic restaurants. I suspect the reason that this model did not really take off is that it would be difficult to gain any recognition from Michelin with a restaurant like that and without Michelin, gastronomic restaurants struggle to survive. What do you think?

Thank you again.

Francesco

[Boris_A]

First of all, a huge "Thank you" for the incredible amount of time Pia and you are sacrifying here. What a fascinating thread!

But if I have to choose one I'd say Cantarelli.

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And thank you for remembering Mirella and Peppino, those gentiluomini della Bassa (people of the plain of Po) and their excercise in "calligraphy" of the cucina Emiliana.

[Igles Corelli]

Ciao, Igles, e grazie per parlare con noi!

[...] Anyway, I think that when most Americans think of "Italian food," what they're really thinking of is Italo-American food based on Southern Italian heritage (Campagna, Calabria, Sicilia, etc.). And what I think of first when I think of Italian food is regionality. Anyone who's been to different regions of Italy knows that every region has its own specialties and all regional cuisines are distinct from the others. So my question to you is whether you feel that there is any commonality that makes a dish or a type of cuisine Italian to you, as opposed to Piemontese, Toscana, Calabrese, etc., or whether the differences between Northern and Southern Italian cuisines may be greater than the differences between some regional Italian cuisines and, say, Provencal style. A subsidiary question could be whether there are some nationwide newfangled trends nowadays. I look forward to your answer.

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Ciao Pan, che domanda difficile!!!

There has been a huge discussion on this subject on Gambero Rosso Forum and I can't say that we've been able to find a precise answer.

Indeed Italian cuisine IS REGIONAL. This is a fantastic peculiarity (by the way, I agree with you that in US Italo-American food derives from Southern Italian heritage).

If the question is "Is there a dish that is unmistakably Italian at first sight (or tasting)?" a straight answer would be pasta and pizza.

Pasta (or better "primi piatti"), in the way we serve it, is only Italian. For us, it is as important as the proteic main course. All other countries using pasta or rice, as far as I know, consider it as a side-dish, to accompany the main course.

Pizza is a "piatto unico", a full meal. It is unusual for an Italian to eat pizza after a pasta, or before a main course. Pizza has been adopted almost everywhere in the world, and it is possible that now belongs to humanity, but it is Italian. You know what's funny about pizza? You can buy frozen "American" pizza in Italian stores!!! . The box has Stars and Stripes on it and the pizza topping includes a wide variety of ingredients: corn, sausage, peppers, cheese, tomato, of course, maybe onions, olives etc. etc.

But, to be precise, Pizza is from Naples (although in many other regions there are flat breads, plain or topped with various ingredients) and pasta may differ enourmously from North to South. In the Po plane, and mainly in Emilia Romagna, pasta is only fresh made, with the egg-dough and it is served with meat or fish sauces. In the South it is mainly dry semolina pasta, served with fish or vegetables sauces. When it is fresh it is made only with wheat flour and water, without eggs. Obviously pasta is common everywhere in Italy, but I'd say that vegetables and legumes soups are traditional in Central Italy.

Rice is mainly Northern, especially if cooked as a "risotto".

Concerning the degree of differences among regional cuisines, or between them and another country traditions, I think that the answer should be different case by case. Political borders are different from cultural ones. So traditional Piedmont cookery resembles more French Savoy cookery than any Southern Italian cuisine. Liguria's tradition is not so different from Provencal style.

There are French and Spanish influences in traditional Neapolitan cuisine and Arab and Spanish in Sicilian (due to history).

There are some recipes present in almost all regional cuisines, with slight differences, such as the fish soups, grilled fish, roasted meat, vegetable soups.

And there is now a unifying typical ingredient, that is extra-virgin olive oil (although it is different from region to region, or even from province to province).

I wrote "now" because in a past not too far, olive oil was scarcely used for cooking purposes. Except main producing regions, like Liguria, Tuscany and Puglia, elsewhere butter or pork fat was mainly used for cooking. Olive oil was only for seasoning salads. And in the North, where olive trees were scarcely grown, people didn't even like its taste, considered too "strong". We owe to Trattorie Toscane, almost the only example of regional cuisine exported in other Italian regions, if olive oil has started to be appreciated in Lombardia, Veneto or Emilia Romagna, for example. Trattorie Toscane were very popular in the bigger cities during the 70ies and the '80ies, before being totally replaced by cheap Chinese restaurants.

Who knows ... Maybe the future trend will be a wide-spread use of soy sauce?

Being serious, a trend could be the attention given more and more to territorial ingredients. This doesn't mean necessarily to cook according to traditional recipes.

It's positive, in my opinion, because you know deeply what you are dealing with, and you are safer concerning freshness and quality but, in excess, it could be as well a limitation for the future development of our cuisine.

Since in our past in was "traditional" to get ideas, products and habits from other cultures with which we had contacts, I think that being "sensible" to what arrives from the rest of the world it is still an advantage. The issue is "are we able to deal any kind of product, any idea, any technique in an "Italian" way? Honestly, I don't know.

If I have to judge from the many copies of Adria's foam and jellies or from the "japanese" look that many dishes have, the answer is maybe "No, we risk to loose our identity". But on the other hand I'm wise enough to know that it is too soon to judge. Ideas need some time before being digested.

Igles

Edited January 20, 2005 by Igles Corelli (log)

[Igles Corelli]

Chef, do you think it is possible to have great Italian cuisine outside of Italy?

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No, but I think it is possible to have a great cuisine also outside of Italy!

[Igles Corelli]

It's late now and I have to leave, for the moment. I'll be back ASAP. Chefzadi, be patient ... slowly slowly, but I'm reaching also your questions

[Pan]

Chef Corelli, thank you for your detailed answer to my question and all your other answers!

I'm really enjoying this Q&A.

[chefzadi]

Chef Corelli-

When I read your thoughts on Haute Cuisine (Cuisine Gastronomique) and terroir based cuisine (Cuisine du Terroir) and mama’s home cooking, I am instantly reminded of Lyon. As I mentioned it is the center of cuisine du terroir in France. It is also a city with a tradition of female chefs (les meres) who introduced home cooking to the restaurant scene. The most famous female chef from Lyon is probably Eugéne Brazier who earned her share of Michelin Stars. Although Paris is renowned for it’s Haute Cuisine, it doesn’t have a tradition of cuisine du terroir. Lyon on the other does have its share of Haute Cuisine. So it is possible for these strains that you mentioned to come together. I apologize for bringing up France here, but the example was too obvious for me (at least in my litte French mind) to resist.

I can visualize your techniques for ragù for Tagliatelle. Your description is perfect. I see it as more of a Cuisine Gastronomique method and result. Bravo! Therein lies an example of your mastery and confidence.

I understand that you are involved in the education of the next generation of Italian Chefs. What is your advice to them about the work and the business? What qualities does a successful chef have?

[Igles Corelli]

[...]

...but in my lifetime, I'm certain that the greatest white wine I've ever had was a carafe of Cinque Terre Bianco at an outdoor cafe in Spezia, served with a gnocchi al pesto, after a long day of hiking on goat trails by the sea.

What do you make of this?

Cheers!

Rocks.

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Hi DonRocks. I'm with you!

This is an interesting point. May I call it subjectivity or relativity of judjements? I'm not sure if that same wine, in other circumstances, with different surroundings, with you in a different mood would have tasted the same ... but in that precise moment and place it was really so, and this is what matters.

I feel the same, about food, and wine as well. Thanks to your words, it comes back to my memory one of my greatest gastronomic experiences. Some years ago, when our little children were not born yet, me and Pia went for a week of sailing school in Sardinia. Feeling young, athletic and enthusiastic we decided to ride there by bicycle, so we brought our sleeping-bags with us.

Lodging at the school was very austere, small rooms crowded with 6 mates. We wished some intimacy , so we decided to sleep on the beach with the stars of Sardinian sky over our heads. Wake-up call was at dawn, "ringed" by the swashing of the sea. If some of you knows how the sea is in Sardinia, knows also that it is like being in heaven. Our breakfast? Sea urchins just picked from the sea and eaten on the shore ... Definitely the best breakfast in my life! Then we went for our hard sailing class, 4 + 4 hours of infinite pleasure and fun.

At lunch and dinner we were served very simple, "heavy", nutritious food in the school's mess. The menu changed daily, but peppers, onions, cucumbers and garlic were always massively present, cooked and raw. I had been eating them rarely up to that moment, because, for me, they were difficult to digest, but the chef, with whom we became very good friends, had a passion for these vegetables. I loved (and digested) every bit of the food. It was delicious and after so many years I can still feel the vivid flavours in my mouth.

What is the meaning of all this? Food is important, but not in itself (unless it's a matter of survival). People who do my job sometimes find hard to accept that what we cook is not what really matters. Of course it HAS to be good, but it will never be as good as it could be if everything around it is even better. And this fact makes our job even more difficult, because you can be careful in respect of the quality of what you prepare, of the way you serve it, how you welcome your guests, how comfortable the atmosphere is etc. etc. but there isn't much you can do if the people who sit at your table had a bad day or are there with the wrong person.

One day a couple entered my restaurants. As I saw them, I had the feeling that there was some electricity between the two. That day we had only other 2 couples for dinner, so I had time to take care of them. We have a very small wine cellar (Pia calls it the telephone booth), next to the normal dining room. It has just a small table for 2. Instead of lighting up the lamps, I filled it with many many small candles. It looked so romantic and intimate! I felt the lady's surprise and I noticed that she started to soften. Their edginess melted away at the same rate of the wax of the candles. At the middle of the dinner they were chatting languidly, as if they had just met. You can't imagine how happy and proud I felt of myself!!! Food would have been the same that night, but without that atmosphere they would hardly have appreciated it.

Igles

[crazycow28]

Ciao Ciao Ciccino Corelli.......

Italy is a country rich of extraordinary food products as well as of extraordinary creations that, being “daily” for us, we tend to under-estimate, positioning them at the lowest level of our food system. I’m thinking of pizza, pasta and ice-creams.

I think that Italians should be aware of the great value of this gastronomic heritage while this consciousness seems to belong to foreigners . We need education and resources, as it is for all kind of long-term investments.

In your opinion, what should we do to give to our gastronomic heritage the place it should deserve in the international media’s consideration?

Why most of young, ambitious and creative chefs in the world have included siphon and jelly preparations, following Adria’s experiments and have never tried the challenge of a proper but innovative pasta dish?

Crazycow28

[crazycow28]

Ciccino Corelli.............

Chez Panisse become famous in US and in the world during the early 70ies, for its “alternative” attitude to cuisine of the period, creating a Californian style, although based on French cuisine. In the same period in Italy Marchesi, Santin at Antica Osteria del Ponte, Morini at San Domenico or Paracucchi, were trying to change Italian cuisine without leaving the stiffest French style. In that period restaurants in Italy were “trattorie” that prepared basically home food. In the States fast-food seemed to be the basis.

Why Italy, starting in the same period to revolution food & restaurants, has never succeeded to jump in pole-position with its chefs in the International hall of fame of contemporary cuisine?

Crazycow28

[Igles Corelli]

I had a busy day today ... I had the serious intention of replying to most of questions, but I'm tired (and Pia too). I'm sorry for those who are still waiting for an answer. We'll continue tomarrow. Be confident! Good night!

Igles

[robert brown]

As co-forum host (but having nothing to do with organizing this chat), I want to say how bowled over I am by Igles and how grateful I am to Albiston for making it possible. I know how busy chefs (and their wives) are, so to be presented with the depth and quality of participation that we have here is a rare gift from Igles and Pia to eGullet. In return, all Albiston and I can ask for is that everyone who is within a fair distance from Igles' restaurant to please make the effort to have a meal or two there. I know I will. It's something I very much look forward to.

[Boris_A]

In return, all Albiston and I can ask for is that everyone who is within a fair distance from Igles' restaurant to please make the effort to have a meal or two there.

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On the homepage of the Locanda, there's a mention of a cooking school. "Not being sure if this is OK with the new policy" , I'm ventilating the idea of a day with an "eG class" there. I know it's completely unrealistic or downright impossible, but OTOH the wholism presented here is something that touches my soul, hence I couldn't resist. Gals and guys, just to think about it is a pleasure.

Dear Pia and Ingles:

"what we cook is not what really matters"

If passionate, professional chefs say something like this, a taoist would know that they are already pretty close ... Edited January 22, 2005 by Boris_A (log)

[albiston]

On the homepage of the Locanda, there's a mention of a cooking school. "Not being sure if this is OK with the new policy" , I'm ventilating the idea of a day with an "eG class" there. I know it's completely unrealistic or downright impossible, but OTOH the wholism presented here is something that touches my soul, hence I couldn't resist.  Gals and guys, just to think about it is a pleasure.

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Boris,

It is a stimulating proposal. If more people are interested we could talk about making this an official eGullet event (therefore something we could organize on the Forum). I'll ask Igles and Pia for the practical detials and I'd suggest that anyone interested contacts me in private. Anyone interested should kindly refrain from posting any further comments to this idea on this thread

I understand the new policy might be confusing at times, as often new things are; in doubt feel free to contact me, pedro or Bux. It has been said before, but I'd like to repeat this again: the policy's goal is absolutely not that of limiting social events, just that of regulating how these events are organized.

Now, back to our chat with Igles. Since we started a day later than planned Igles and Pia have kindly agreed to keep this going until Sunday night, or better Monday early morning .

This is the last chance to ask any questions you might have kept in the closet up to now.

[pedro]

Igles and Pia, thanks very much for joining us.

We have a few hard-core lovers of becaccia (Scolopax Rusticola, woodcock, becada in Spain, becasse in France) in the site. What could you tell us about cooking this bird? Do you favor long periods of faisandage?

[docsconz]

I haven't had much time to follow this or other eGullet threads over the pat few days, but reading through the posts today has been a real pleasure. The insights and wisdom coming from Chef Corelli are truly valuable and have given me a greater understanding of the cuisine of Italy and the role of food in the culture and I thank Chef Corelli and Pia for that. I am anticipating your additional discussion avidly.

As a new, but now "hard-core lover of becaccia", I second Pedro's questions, and would add, what other game, birds or otherwise, do you value most highly and what special modes of preparation do you require for them?

[Igles Corelli]

Dear Igles!

Could you agree with my opinion, that northern Italian cuisine is maybe the "softest" (morbida) cuisine one can find. Almost never really spicey, realtively low in salt, for me many dishes  [...] have a hard to describe, mellowing character. In this regard, I'd call it an almost feminine, maternal cuisine (no wonder, in general kids do like it so much). It's somehow also a wonderful paradox that there are many Italian male home cooks and vice versa a high percentage of female chefs at the professional top level.

So I could think that Italian way of life (rarely being inflexible or hard pressing) or Italian language (a notoriously melodic, soft, rounded language) is perfectly reflected in their dishes. Is this too far fetched?

Futher, I'm convinced that Italian "arte di mangiar bene" (pleasure) has a as much to do with ingredients as with the conviviality of it's consumers and their relaxed attitude towards food. I have all the memories of sunday lunches, when wonderful food was served. The food was very important and was always discussed, but it never outshined the "being together" experience. There was always a playful implicitness that - in my eyes - demonstrates that Italy is maybe the oldest aristocracy in matters of fine eating (opposed to fine dining) in western world.

I think that Italian, rural restaurants (see Francescos remarks) offer not only truly great food, but also an un-solicitous atmosphere which I think is essential for Italian restaurants clients (an I must confess, for me as well). Remarkably, on can find a similar atmosphere from the simple family trattoria up to highly rated restaurant. This is one reason why I believe Italians are somewhat reluctant to interest in a cuisine which stresses cuisine too much. Is there something with my rationale?

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Yes, I DO!!! I couldn't describe the cuisine of my region and of the Northern plane in general in a better way. It's like our "azdore". Do you now the word? It's dialect and it defines the women who "run" a family, they are the "managers". They take care of everything concerning the family and the house and, of course, they prepare (or, more correct, prepared) the daily "sfoglia" (egg-dough) together with the rest of the meal. If I should describe the typical "azdora" I'd talk about a strong female, not too skinny, with a strong character, pragmatic but at the same time extremely sensual. "Azdore", and Emilia Romagna express a kind of cookery they I would also define soft, juicy, maternal before being feminine and sensual. It's buttery, creamy (these are the regions where butter, milk, cheese, cream have been widely used in cookery, since ever).

Indeed cuisine reflects the way of life of a country and its culture. I've always thought that if you want to know other people (not only from other countries, if you think of Italy, for instance) you need to know what they eat and how they eat, even before knowing something about their language.

What you say about "arte di mangiar bene" in Italy is extremely true. Both of us (I mean Pia and me) still remember a beautiful post written by a female e-Gulleters some months ago, concerning eating in a Italian familY. Sorry that none of us is able to remember her name, we can't search it now, but for sure you all know who I'm talking about, because she is a frequent and gifted contributor to the discussions. The scene that you recall it's absolutely true and typically Italian. It's funny, we never eat anything without talking about food: what we are eating, the way it should have been, how our grand-mother, mother, aunt, wife was or is doing it, what we ate the day before ... and so on. You are right, though, we always talk about food while we are eating (and often even when we are not), but food is not the main thing, without conviviality. Eating together is a way to share a pleasure. Eating together, for many Italians, implies intimacy and complicity. This is maybe one of the reasons why Italians don't like to share their table with people that they don't know.

Concerning the un-solicitous atmosphere of our restaurants, I couldn't agree more. I think that I've already expressed my feelings about this subject on a previous reply, but let me say that Francesco has clearly shown me the way we were looking since the beginning of our experience as restaurant owners: the Cantarelli's style! The solution was there..., we were circling around it ... OK I'll try to clear my ideas on this subject by answering directly to Francesco (but not tonight, it's late, once more!).

[Igles Corelli]

Chef, thanks for joining us for this chat.

On this site we discussed how resistant to change Italians can be when it comes to culinary traditions. See this discussion about Vissani for example Click Here. It seems that many Italians might not give a chef the kind of respect he or she deserves if they are cooking something that varies from the norm, tradition or "the Italian way". What are your thoughts about this issue? How do you express your creativity and manage to run a successful restaurant?

Thanks

Elie

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I think that my opinion on this subject has already come out on this Q&A. I agree entirely with Francesco's considerations about the way most Italians feel towards food and restaurants. His analysis is perfect and the way he describes his experience at Vissani is really enjoyable and true. I know Vissani since ever. His genious as a chef simply can't be discussed, but Italians do. Even worse, you should expect a daily pilgrimage to his restaurant ... but it is not so. The only "wrong" thing writtten by Francesco is to think that the restaurant is usually working below its capacity, with about 20-30 customers per day. It is working far far below. 2 or 4, 6 people per day, even on Saturdays, that's the reality.

And it is not like that only for him.

The knowleadgeable few Italian gourmets, are too few to fill the many good, innovative and usually quite expensive restaurants everyday. Only Michelin 3-.stars are always fully booked, and I guess this is because being so few they get the attention of foreigners. Most people in Italy discuss Vissani and his cuisine, without even knowing what he cooks. Some of the gourmets criticize him (and others chefs, too) because he is not always present in his restaurant and don't understand that he must get his money somewhere else. I think that he should be appreciated because he his investing everything in the restaurant.

So, when you say that I'm running a successful restaurant, well ... it makes me smile and hope it will be so! . On this respect, I'm in the same position as Vissani (and many others). Me and Pia have 2nd, 3rd and 4th jobs! Tv shows, teaching, writing books, organizing events, consulting etc. etc., so we can support our restaurant (well we also enjoy other commitments, but nevertheless...)

Why Italians are so conservative about food, generally speaking? I think it has to do with our long and rich tradition (sometimes it may be a limitation to accept creativity) and also with our poor "education" concerning food and its quality. Since most people are convinced to know how to cook and what is good, very few accept to be so "humble" to discover, accept or learn something different or new.

How do I deal with creativity? I think that you can't force yourself to be creative. Either you are or you are not. And its OK in both cases, provided that one follows his nature. Non-creative but skilled chefs are a gift from heaven. The keep the memory, they keep the connections with the roots, they prepare good food that reaches the purpose: simply pleasure, easy understanding, no cerebral complications ... it's relaxing.

Creativity is exciting and fatiguing, both for the chef and the customer. It claims for attention, understanding and it may go beyond pleasure. It may be "disturbing", and right because of this, even more satisfying, because it compells you to eat also with the brain ...

When I was younger my creativity was in some way more glamourous, "forced" by the desire to give surprise and shock. Now it's subtler. My aim is surprise and pleasure. In the past my dishes were very very complicated, with many ingredients, different techniques required ... now I'm more in favour of an apparent simplicity.

Igles

[Igles Corelli]

... just to show the evidence of how ignorant we (Italians) can be about food & restaurants and how neglected great chefs can be, this is a sentence just written on Gambero Rosso Forum on a thread about Vissani (where peolpe, rather than discussing about his cuisine, is fighting about prices and speculate about their managing costs):

L'Italia è famosa per i ristoranti, le trattorie, i gnocchi della nonna e le orecchiette della zia ... vissani e pierangelini sono uno dei tanti che buttano la pasta!

(Italy is famous for restaurants, trattorie, grandma's dumplings or aunt's orecchiette [a pasta traditional from Puglia] ... Vissani and Pierangelini [two among the greatest chefs we have in Italy are just some of the many who cook pasta!

Sic!

[Igles Corelli]

Chef,

I was wondering if you had any thoughts on this thread (In praise of out-of-season fruit).

←

Local, therefore seasonal is the best choice, to me, on behalf of quality and, to some extent, of safety, too (you may know and "control" the producer).

This is a very extreme statement and it's not in my nature to be so strict. It's true, but it would imply too many limitations.

I grow some vegetables in a small garden in front of my kitchen and I try to buy my fruit and vegetables as much as possible from the producers in my village. They let me select my pumpkins, my zucchini, my watermelons and melons directly on the field. It would be time-consuming to do the same with small fruits, like strawberries, tomatoes or apricots and in that case I rely on their harvest. So, for some products, I'm really using the freshest possible, and often also the best available on Italian market. The area where I live is famous for pumpkins and melons. But in northern Italy, the weather in winter is not helpful. All year round not all varieties of fruit & veg are grown here, therefore if I wish, as I do, to use the widest range of flavours and textures I must accept that these products come from far away and, indeed, today moving fresh goods from one place of the world to the opposite is just a matter of hours or, maximum, few days. This doesn't apply to vegetables only.

Fish, is very much the same. It's seasonal, it's perishable when fresh and its taste varies, depending where it was living and what has been eating. The northern part of the Italian Adriatic is sandy or muddy, with shallow water. The Tirreno is deeper and rocky, with a great variety of sea-weeds. We are now buying most of our fish at Anzio market (next to Rome) because some species of fish have a richer taste in the Tirreno Sea, compared to the same fished in the Adriatic. But when I buy a eel I want a wild eel from Comacchio and not those farmed and imported from France that are usually available at fishmongers even here in Comacchio. Why? A wild eel from Comacchio reaches the market when it is at least 7-8 years of age. The skin has a lighter grey colour and the belly is silvery. The flesh is greasier, soft and juicy. A farmed eel is ready for consumption in 3-4 years. Quality often means patience, care, time and higher costs.

Concerning season, I think that besides what nature does (and this can be by-passed importing seasonal products from other countries) there is also a season for the consumption of some food. I'm not eager for cold, maybe raw food in winter and I'd never eat a boiling soup in summer. I associate for instance meat ragout with cold weather and a tomato sauce made with fresh tomato iwhen it's warm. And I'm also happy with the expectancy of the forthcoming season, with its gifts.

Igles

[Igles Corelli]

Welcome Chef Corelli,

[...]

This is my reply to Chefzadi. I’ll try to comment all your posts with this one. In my slow pacing through all questions, I finally reached yours.

First of all thank you for your appreciation. I’m really honoured by your estimation. I would love to have you cooking for me. I’m not planning a trip in US in the next future, but if you are planning to visit Italy, we may do this: We stay together in my kitchen, I cook one dish for you and you cook one dish for me! Until we can’t go on eating! What do you think?

>> When I read your thoughts on Haute Cuisine (Cuisine Gastronomique) and terroir based cuisine (Cuisine du Terroir) and mama’s home cooking, I am instantly reminded of Lyon. As I mentioned it is the center of cuisine du terroir in France. It is also a city with a tradition of female chefs (les meres) who introduced home cooking to the restaurant scene. […] <<

What strikes me is that you are from Lyon. For some reasons I’ve always thought that Emilia Romagna (where I’m from) is the Italian Perigord. Am I wrong if I say that cuisine in both regions has something in common? As you say “terroir” and women, earth and sensuality. Both are cuisines of substance, rich and “good humoured”. I think that what Boris has written about northern Italian cuisine applies as well to that of Lyon.

In Italy we are starting maybe in these recent year to have a distinction between Cuisine Gastronomique and Cuisine du Terroir, and the funny thing is that they seem now to coincide. In older times Cuisine Gastronomique for us was French or International cuisine and everything else was home-style cuisine.

>>[…] I apologize for bringing up France here, but the example was too obvious for me […]

No need for apologizes! What is beautiful about cuisine is that exchanges, intrusions, mixing are the rule. I think that food can bring people together and, as I already said, give a great help to understand and know each other better.

>> I understand that you are involved in the education of the next generation of Italian Chefs. What is your advice to them about the work and the business? What qualities does a successful chef have? <<

Yes, I’m co-ordinating and teaching at the Master for future chefs at Gambero Rosso School in Rome and in some public professional schools here in Ferrara.

I’m usually mentoring my students. My kitchen is always open to those who wish to make some experience after the school or I contact my colleagues looking for stages for the students. What I like of all this is the relationship, the connections that remains for ever, I would say. Many of them call me often for advices or greetings, some come periodically and stay with me for a couple of days, sometimes longer, just to refresh their training or come to help when we organize some committing event.

In addition to that I organize amatorial classes or professional training periods in my restaurant, but since there is a specific question about this I’ll be more precise there.

To my students, the first question is always: “Are you really sure that you want to become a chef? Do you really know what it means?”

And then I insist because they must know the basics, before starting to fly with creativity. Pia, who’s responsible for the planning for many schools (Gambero Rosso’s Professione Cuoco is her creature) has created an effective method. She has been trying to reduce theory to the minimum and planned a progression of practical lessons, during which the same theoretical topics are developed and expanded while working. Recipes are functional to this and, of course, become increasingly more complex. Since the beginning, students prepare complete recipes, because it is important to see (and taste) the results of what you have been doing all day. She insists about respecting tradition without altering it, because if you want to change the rules you need to know them very well. Obviously tradition is performed according to all modern techniques that are used today in professional kitchens.

Anyway since I’m a chef, here is my recipe …

Ingredients (for let’s say about 85 kg of chef)

Inclination, made with

· 6 kg of well trained palate (by a skilled mother and by subsequent gastronomic experiences)

· 12 kg of passion for the job and for life in general

· 9 kg of curiosity, well trimmed by all sort of prejudices

· 4 kg of equilibrium balanced by 4 kg of bravery

· 9 kg of sense of taste and knowledge of aesthetics, matured by specific studies

· 8 kg of managing skills

Experience (to be aged for at least 10-20 years) made with

· 9 kg of knowledge of ingredients

· 9 kg of knowledge of techniques

· 8kg of knowledge of regional, national and international cooking traditions

· 7 kg of research and experiments

· a pinch of ambition, but never more than the dose of modesty

Mix together inclination with experience until is well blended, season with plenty of creativity, being careful because the result is never stable and tend to change his composition, with the same risk of good or bad results. These depend on how attentively the product has been preserved and matured.

[pia]

Before the lights will switch off on this thread, please, let me thank you for the nice words you had for me too!

Pia