Four Restaurants -- Comments & Thoughts Requested

[TCD]

Planning a visit to London in the coming months.  These are four restaurants (among others) at which we are considering dining.  They all receive good print reviews (at least the ones I have been able to find, including Zagats) and, other than a few negative comments regarding Petrus, they all enjoy solidly good reputations from my London-knowledgable friends.  Your thoughts and comments (pro and con) would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.

[Tonyfinch]

You should be aware that at Gordon Ramsey you will be told what time you will be allowed to eat and,if its the early sitting,what time you must finish.

You should also know that Gordon Ramsey,by playing the Marco Pierre White card of tortured,misunderstood perfectionist,has succeded in coming across as an abusive loudmouthed bully.

Give GR a miss. Go to Le Gavroche or La Tante Claire instead.

[cabrales]

You should be aware that at Gordon Ramsey you will be told what time you will be allowed to eat and,if its the early sitting,what time you must finish. . . . Give GR a miss. Go to Le Gavroche or La Tante Claire instead.

If you have never visited Gordon Ramsay RHR before, I would recommend it over the other three restaurants on your list. Yes, there is more than one service for each meal, but the food is for me better than the other three. La Tante Claire would be my second preferred restaurant among the four.  

[tony h]

I ate in GR - RHR early last year.  We went at lunch time (evening was full) & spent over 3 hours there without any hint of kicking us out.  I didn't like the restaurant itself but the food there is special & better than the others so i'd put it top of your list.  Of course, that's if you can get a booking - its virtually impossible these days.

[TCD]

You should be aware that at Gordon Ramsey you will be told what time you will be allowed to eat and,if its the early sitting,what time you must finish.

Depending on how far in advance one makes the reservation, often a restaurant will not have the time you would prefer available (or they have set seating times), so being "told what time I can eat" doesn't seem to be too out of the ordinary.  Petrus, which I believe is also owned by Mr. Ramsey, did indicate that the table would be booked 2 hours later.  Not rude about it, and that is a policy a few of the very popular places in NYC.

[TCD]

I ate in GR - RHR early last year.  We went at lunch time (evening was full) & spent over 3 hours there without any hint of kicking us out.  I didn't like the restaurant itself but the food there is special & better than the others so i'd put it top of your list.  Of course, that's if you can get a booking - its virtually impossible these days.

My understanding is that the book opens exactly 30 days in advance, which gives me some time before I need to call.  I would imagine that it would be very difficult to get a reservation if one didn't call very early that first day.

[Tonyfinch]

Depending on how far in advance one makes the reservation, often a restaurant will not have the time you would prefer available (or they have set seating times), so being "told what time I can eat" doesn't seem to be too out of the ordinary.  

Gordon Ramsey has set seating times You cannot book for,say 8 or 8.30pm. I'm told the times for dinner are 6.45 or 9pm.

IMHO it is NOT acceptable for restaurants at this level of expense to demand the table back after a couple of hours or to refuse to allow you to eat at the time you wish. I'm amazed that people seem so sanguine about it. Maybe I'm too old fashioned but in all the top restaurants I've been to both here and abroad,unhurried leisure at table was both expected and encouraged by the restaurant. Now here's everybody queueing up to eat in a restaurant which not only bullies the staff but bullies the customer as well. What IS the matter with you all?

[macrosan]

Tony, I know that's the case at Claridges (which I therefore won't go to), but I thought not at RHR (and if it is I 'll take it off my dinner list).

[cabrales]

Gordon Ramsey has set seating times You cannot book for,say 8 or 8.30pm. I'm told the times for dinner are 6.45 or 9pm.

I've had bookings at 10:15 pm or 10:30 pm.

[tony h]

I've had bookings at 10:15 pm or 10:30 pm.

How can you face eating that late?  By 10.30 all I'm thinking about is going to bed.

[Andy Lynes]

Tony, I know that's the case at Claridges (which I therefore won't go to), but I thought not at RHR (and if it is I 'll take it off my dinner list).

My understanding is that they do turn tables at RHR.

You are far more likely to find Marcus Wareing, Eric Chavot and certainly Philip Howard at the stoves than Gordon Ramsay.

Ramsay's website www.http://www.gordonramsay.com.

Our dear Simon has given The Capital a good review very recently with web address included on the thread somewhere.

You might like to read http://www.therestaurantgame.co.uk article about Petrus which will give you a very good idea indeed about what to expect your dinner to be like, click on the pink dot under the "e" in game on the title page of the site to find it.

I had lunch at The Square last November which was really lovely, but I do know Phil Howard just a tiny bit (I've met him twice, both times at his restaurant) and was well looked after. The thing I really like about The Square, apart from the food of course, is the acres of space between tables. They have a website at http://www.squarerestaurant.com

My personal choice would probably be Petrus, but mostly because I haven't benn in over 18 months and rather miss the old place.

[cabrales]

How can you face eating that late?  By 10.30 all I'm thinking about is going to bed.

blind lemon higgins -- At that hour, I wouldn't order the tasting menu. Due to work constraints and the need to book in advance, I used to make reservations at that type of hour to be sure that I would be able to attend.  

[TCD]

Gordon Ramsey has set seating times You cannot book for,say 8 or 8.30pm. I'm told the times for dinner are 6.45 or 9pm.

IMHO it is NOT acceptable for restaurants at this level of expense to demand the table back after a couple of hours or to refuse to allow you to eat at the time you wish. I'm amazed that people seem so sanguine about it. Maybe I'm too old fashioned but in all the top restaurants I've been to both here and abroad,unhurried leisure at table was both expected and encouraged by the restaurant. Now here's everybody queueing up to eat in a restaurant which not only bullies the staff but bullies the customer as well. What IS the matter with you all?

Generally, we prefer to dine starting at 8pm or so, but 9pm is not a problem (tried for 8pm at Petrus and were told 7pm or 9pm, we opted for 9pm).  If the times available are not satsifactory, there are too many excellent or very good choices from which to choose in major cities like London to worry about not getting a table at a particular restaurant.  If that is the manner in which the restaurant believes it can best operate then so be it.  If it doesn't work for me then they've lost my business for the evening.  If it doesn't work for a sufficeint number of people, I assume the restaurant will need to change their operating procedures or go out of business.  I believe in diner's rights, but the restaurant has to the right and the obligation to guarantee a good dining experience for all its patrons.  If that particular kitchen works best by having set seating times, then so be it.

For two people, I find two hours to be ample dining time generally.  But I really don't like to feel rushed so I tend to book later whether or not I am expressly informed the table will be turned.  For parties of 4 or more, 2 hours would seem to be rushed and I would hope that the restaurant would book accordingly.

Many people hate to be kept waiting for their reserved table. By telling the diner upon making the reservation the restaurant's booking policies it minimizes (i) a diner unexpectedly feeling rushed at the end of (and ruining) an enjoyable dining experience and (ii) a diner starting off their experience on a negative note by having to wait for a table.

[tony h]

Due to work constraints...

Maybe if you spent less time one eGullet....  

[cabrales]

blind lemon higgins -- An accurate observation, of course  

[Tonyfinch]

For two people, I find two hours to be ample dining time generally.  

I think GENERALLY that is true. But when you go to a top restaurant you are looking for a different order of experience.It is an occasion,an event(well it is for me) and I'm looking for a memorable evening in its entirety which is obviously mainly about,but not ONLY about,great food.

The very best restaurants make everybody feel special and valued. They set standards which from the moment you walk in until the moment you leave are designed to enrich you and uplift you in a way that truly great books,movies,music etc. can.

I don't care if you have been told in advance that the table will be required again.To me being told that you must leave after 2 hours is a notion that in my opinion flies in the face of giving the customer a whole evening to remember and to cherish. GR is heavily booked so obviously people don't mind,but I think its a shame and a lowering of the standards set by restaurants such as Le Gavroche and La Tante Claire,to name but two in London.

[Jon Tseng]

i) Have done RHR 8/8:30 before no prob - suspect it depends on how busy they are and how early you get the reservation in (phone first thing on T-30 [er, about 3am your time] and keep hitting the redial - much like what I hear about French Laundry, although not as bad)

ii) If you can choose when you come July or even better August are traditionally very slow months as everyone's on holiday - bookings much easier (have gotten RHR a week in advance in August, although this was before the third star so things probably tougher now)

iii) Can second comments on the Capital - best prixe fixe lunch in London

iv) RHR and Petrus both very much have the Ramsay imprimateur on them - if you want some more variety try substituting one of them (eg Tante Claire, Gavroche as suggested above, or even the legendary St John)

cheerio

Jon

[Basildog]

I do believe the world has gone mad...Restaurants allowing a certain time to eat...and then "on ya bike!".Why do customers put up with it?????????????? Its all become a very silly game..book for 4 people..get a better time..try and book for 2 and get less choice of time.So people book for 4 and only 2 turn up! MAD MAD MAD! Is it all down to ££££££? We all need to make a living but still....OR do we get the service we deserve? And why is it the "better restaurants" have the most demands on there customers?

[cabrales]

Its all become a very silly game..book for 4 people..get a better time..try and book for 2 and get less choice of time.So people book for 4 and only 2 turn up! MAD MAD MAD!

Basildog -- I empathize with your concerns regarding changes in the number of people in a reservation, particularly for a relatively small restaurant such as yours. Some people may book for 4 already knowing only 2 would show up. For me, however, if I need to book a lengthy time in advance and I'd like the flexibility to have 4 show up (e.g., I have not confirmed a couple can attend), I would book for 4 and try to scale down later. It's easier to reduce the number of people for the reservation than to increase it, generally. This is probably not a helpful practice from the restaurant's perspective, but I try to give as much advance notice of any scale-downs as practicable.

[Simon Majumdar]

Having tried all the restaurants mentioned only once, I would rate in the following order

1) Petrus

2) GR @ RHR ( the real deal compared to the dire Claridges - but I just hate their sitting policy )

3) Captial - see thread

4) The Square - I found this Ok but ordinary comapred to any of the above

S

[tony h]

If you can choose when you come July or even better August are traditionally very slow months

Just thinking - when is the world cup on?  Last time it was on we managed to book the unbookable when one the home team/s were playing - not just food but theartre.  In fact the theartre's were half empty.

Then again - as I don't know (read - don't care) where its being held there may be a time difference to factor in.

[ps - a few years ago someone mentioned that the world cup was on - I asked - world cup of what?]

Oh dear, does this mean I've started a football thread?

[Basildog]

Cabrales...its not a problem with my place .i don,t  turn tables. My customers , tend to be very fair to me, mostly because i'm fair to them.I do spread the bookings over the evening..20 people turning up at the same time  makes the kitchen grind to a halt

[Matthew Grant]

My understanding is that the book opens exactly 30 days in advance, which gives me some time before I need to call.  I would imagine that it would be very difficult to get a reservation if one didn't call very early that first day.

If your trying for a table on a Friday make sure you are on the phone at 09:00, they will probably leave you hanging on but will come to you in turn.  By 09:15 table choice is severely restricted or quite possibly full

I have had tables at various times (later rather than earlier) and have seen people coming in to eat at 10.30pm.

With regard to the sittings, I think I am correct in saying that GR won't have lots of people arriving at exactly the same time because of the strain it puts on the kitchen, and subsequently bookings are staggered. If you go early though, you can expect to lose the table but this is explained when you book.

I'm with Cabrales , GR @RHR and La Tante Claire would be my first choices in London.

If you want to head just a little outside, I would recommend the Waterside Inn. I have only eaten there in the evening but imagine it would make an excellent venue for Sunday lunch, especialy if the sun was shining. Take wheelbarow loads of cash or check your credit limit before you go.

[cabrales]

If you want to head just a little outside, I would recommend the Waterside Inn. I have only eaten there in the evening but imagine it would make an excellent venue for Sunday lunch, especialy if the sun was shining. Take wheelbarow loads of cash or check your credit limit before you go.

Matthew -- It is a nice place for lunch, because apertifs can be taken (weather permitting) in the back of the restaurant along the waterfront (literally -- some tables intended for aperatifs are just next to the Thames), or at an intermediate level (i.e., the level of the giant overarching tree) close to it. Also interesting (especially in the wintertime) are two little private "huts" (one is along the waterfront, the other is on the same side, but further back and quite close to the side of the restaurant area) where one can have aperatifs. These are heated in the wintertime, and are quite colorfully decorated. The alternative place for any aperatifs not taken at the table is the entryway to the restaurant/hotel (or an adjacent little room which has the door leading up to the bedrooms), where there are lots of Roux momentos and where one finds two art pieces involving people holding actual musical instruments.

Subjectively, RHR and La Tante Claire have better food than Waterside Inn, but the latter is worth a visit with enough time. The lobster with port wine dish is quite good, and is a signature. Also, for dessert fans, Waterside Inn might be a closer call relative to La Tante Claire than for others. Roux's souffles are generally considered worth sampling. I have only had the mirabelles (special type of plum) souffle, and it was not bad, but also not particularly memorable. I have had two excellent woodcock dishes at Waterside Inn, but obviously the visit prompting this thread would not be during game season.  :confused:

[Matthew Grant]

The lobster with port wine dish is quite good, and is a signature. Also, for dessert fans, Waterside Inn might be a closer call relative to La Tante Claire than for others. Roux's souffles are generally considered worth sampling. I have only had the mirabelles (special type of plum) souffle, and it was not bad, but also not particularly memorable. I have had two excellent woodcock dishes at Waterside Inn, but obviously the visit prompting this thread would not be during game season.  :confused:

The Lobster in a white port and ginger sauce is one of my favourite dishes. I have also made this at home quite succesfully  

Desserts at the Waterside are in my mind superb and, in answer to another thread on Egullet, prove that Cooking can indeed be art.