Chinese UWS

[Daniel]

Anyone know of a good chinese restaurant on the UWS 80's westend ish. I have been enjoying thai food, vietnamese food and even tibetan shambala, but cant seem to find a place that has even decent chinese food.. Eventually, I caved and went to Ollies.. That place was god awfull. Is cottage any good? Any sichuan.

Thanks.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Daniel (log)

[twiggles]

There's not much in the area, but I've been to Silk Road Palace, Amsterdam between 81st and 82nd. It's not great, but probably better than Ollies. Haven't tried Cottage.

[Stone]

I used to really enjoy Ollies. But the last time I was there, they seemed to have changed the menu and the cooking.

I remember Silk Road being very good as well.

[Jason Perlow]

Whats that Cuban Chinese place in the 80's? I love that place. Not Ollies.

EDIT: La Caridad on 78th street.

I discuss my first time going there here:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...ndpost&p=387246

[Daniel]

You are really funny.. You seem so excited about that place in your post.. How quickly did the 4 egg rolls you bought last ? I am sure its good, But i am looking for less retro chinese and more authentic. .. I actually have gotten their fried yuca when I needed a side for a chimmichuri steak i made. Good black beans too..

[mjs]

You're pretty much out of luck on the UWS. Saigon Grill is probably the best Asian overall. Although they say they are Vietnamese there are several Chinese dishes on the menu.

[alacarte]

If you don't mind slumming in the lower 60s, Shun Lee Palace is excellent.

[Daniel]

Saigon grill is really good and that seems to be my go to.. In terms of Shun Lee palace, I am not a fan.. Really boring stuff.

[Pan]

Anyone know of a good chinese restaurant on the UWS 80's westend ish.

←

No.

Sincerely,

UWS emigrant and LES snob,

Michael

[jgould]

Saigon grill is really good and that seems to be my go to.. In terms of Shun Lee palace, I am not a fan.. Really boring stuff.

←

that's classic i assume you are referring to shun lee west on W 65th?

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city, & to characterize as boring signifies a lack of familiarity with the varied number of interesting selections on their menu ranging from mild-to-spicy; or using another criteria - every nite, 7 nites a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year, year-after-year; shun lee has a filled restaurant with both regulars, & newcomers who ALL seem to turn into regulars. to even compare with saigon grill is particularly odd, these 2 are not in the same chinese ballpark. additionally, the much EG- touted grand sichian is very good, but not in the same league as shun lee west!

Edited November 24, 2004 by jgould (log)

[SobaAddict70]

additionally, the much EG- touted grand sichian is very good, but not in the same league as shun lee west!

←

That's debatable, as this thread shows.

Also, Shun Lee West and Grand Sichuan serve two different styles of Chinese cuisine. Shun Lee focuses on a broad selection of Chinese cuisine with some modern fusion thrown in, whilst GS tends to focus on one specific area. It's a bit like comparing apples and onions but your mileage may vary.

Getting back on topic, if you're willing to travel out of the area, you might consider Phoenix Garden and either Wu Liang Ye (48th St. near Rockefeller Center) or Grand Sichuan (midtown location). I'm afraid I'm not much help with UWS Chinese. As for Chinatown (and for future consideration), Dim Sum GoGo, Sweet-N-Tart, and Oriental Garden are all worthy.

Good luck,

Soba

[Pan]

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city

←

Beg to differ. Never was, either. Always overpriced and never more than merely solidly good, at best, from what I remember. Shun Lee Palace may have once been the best Chinese restaurant in the city, though.

[KatieLoeb]

Others may disagree, but I've had many good meals (both take out and sit down) from Empire Szechuan on 72nd between Broadway and West End. This place was practically in the lobby of a good friend's former apartment and I've always enjoyed the food from there. Is it earth shatteringly great? Probably not. But it is consistently very tasty and prepared with fresh ingredients. The Crispy Orange Beef was always a fave.

[jgould]

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city

←

Beg to differ. Never was, either. Always overpriced and never more than merely solidly good, at best, from what I remember. Shun Lee Palace may have once been the best Chinese restaurant in the city, though.

←

i guess that's why 1 has a choice between chocolate & vanilla... as well as very recent trips to both shun lee's as opposed to "what i remember". many of these have been around for a long time & so many "remember" what was, not what is. overpriced is always in the eyes of the beholder, but its best to remember "one gets what one pays for", n'est-ce pas?

off-off topic, as to apples & onions, it is debatable as regards to an appropiate analogy, sort of the same as GS vis-a-vis SLW.

[Pan]

Beg to differ. Never was, either. Always overpriced and never more than merely solidly good, at best, from what I remember. Shun Lee Palace may have once been the best Chinese restaurant in the city, though.

←

i guess that's why 1 has a choice between chocolate & vanilla...

←

Obviously, we're talking about opinions here.

as well as very recent trips to both shun lee's as opposed to "what i remember". many of these have been around for a long time & so many "remember" what was, not what is. overpriced is always in the eyes of the beholder, but its best to remember "one gets what one pays for", n'est-ce pas?

←

No. In no way does paying high prices because a Chinese restaurant is on the UWS, superficially fancy, and caters to non-Chinese make it have better food. Would you say the same thing about the fact that the cleaners on 97 St. between Broadway and West End charge at least 50% more to clean a suit than the cleaners on my block? Do you suppose they do a 50% better job? Well, they don't. And I think think this is probably a more unfavorable comparison than simply the same quality of food for higher (probably at least 100% higher) prices. But that depends on some things I'll discuss in the next paragraph.

What I remember is a long time ago when Shun Lee West was actually a good, though overpriced restaurant - in relation to good restaurants in Chinatown. What I remember more recently is mediocre meals there, or worse (characterized by extreme - and I mean extreme - blandness the last few times). Granted that the last time wasn't very recent and I'll admit it was a few years ago, but if Shun Lee West has suddenly become one of the best Chinese restaurants in Manhattan after probably never having been, I'd be amazed and very pleasantly surprised. Is your point of view that Shun Lee West has been a "great" restaurant for a long time or that it experienced a steep improvement at some point? If it's the former, we are simply in strong disagreement; if it's the latter, when do you date the improvement from?

[SobaAddict70]

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city

←

Beg to differ. Never was, either. Always overpriced and never more than merely solidly good, at best, from what I remember. Shun Lee Palace may have once been the best Chinese restaurant in the city, though.

←

i guess that's why 1 has a choice between chocolate & vanilla... as well as very recent trips to both shun lee's as opposed to "what i remember". many of these have been around for a long time & so many "remember" what was, not what is. overpriced is always in the eyes of the beholder, but its best to remember "one gets what one pays for", n'est-ce pas?

off-off topic, as to apples & onions, it is debatable as regards to an appropiate analogy, sort of the same as GS vis-a-vis SLW.

←

An appropriate analogy?

You are comparing a restaurant that serves cuisine that covers a broad range of genres within Chinese cuisine -- Shanghai, Beijing, Sichuan and Cantonese (along with some modern interpretations) as opposed to a restaurant that has a strong focus on classic Sichuan cuisine. Saying that one is not in the same league as the other with the implication that one is "better" than the other within this context is not quite accurate and is purely a matter of speculation and/or opinion.

Soba

[jgould]

"An appropriate analogy?

You are comparing a restaurant that serves cuisine that covers a broad range of genres within Chinese cuisine -- Shanghai, Beijing, Sichuan and Cantonese (along with some modern interpretations) as opposed to a restaurant that has a strong focus on classic Sichuan cuisine. Saying that one is not in the same league as the other with the implication that one is "better" than the other within this context is not quite accurate and is purely a matter of speculation and/or opinion.

Soba"

i assumed you could not resist the bait, thanks for reaffirming previously held assumption(s)

Edited November 26, 2004 by jgould (log)

[Todd36]

Ivy's on 72nd between Broadway and Columbus isn't bad. The Chinese place on 72nd between Broadway and West End has changed ownership yet again, and now seems to be doing much more business than before (Shanghi style). I have not eaten there yet. Both are on the south side of the street. To add fuel to the fire, Shun Lee Cafe (the cheaper part of Shun Lee West) is overpriced but good (meaning above average).

Edited November 26, 2004 by Todd36 (log)

[SethG]

I lived on the UWS for five years, and it was always a restaurant wasteland (although it did begin to improve a lot by the time I left in July 1999). But I could never figure out why the Chinese restaurants in particular were in general so god-awful. The fact the Ollies was always packed spoke volumes, since it capital-s SUCKED.

I've seen a lot of comments on eGullet about why the UWS is bad for restaurants in general-- but I would've thought that the UWS, with its large population of Jews and takeout regulars, would be a great place for Chinese food.

Why is it not the case?

[jogoode]

I've seen a lot of comments on eGullet about why the UWS is bad for restaurants in general-- but I would've thought that the UWS, with its large population of Jews and takeout regulars, would be a great place for Chinese food.

Why is it not the case?

←

Hey, no one said Jews eat good Chinese food!

[Pan]

A more interesting question is whether there were better Chinese restaurants on the UWS in the 70s than there are now, and if so, why. I answer to the first part of the question, with the caveat that I haven't had Chinese food on the UWS for some time, given my downtown location and also the job that takes me through Flushing every week, I think the answer is probably yes, but I may be wrong and wonder what others with long memories and fresher comparisons to UWS Chinese restaurants of today think. As to the answer to "why," I really have no idea.

[robyn]

Saigon grill is really good and that seems to be my go to.. In terms of Shun Lee palace, I am not a fan.. Really boring stuff.

←

that's classic i assume you are referring to shun lee west on W 65th?

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city, & to characterize as boring signifies a lack of familiarity with the varied number of interesting selections on their menu ranging from mild-to-spicy; or using another criteria - every nite, 7 nites a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year, year-after-year; shun lee has a filled restaurant with both regulars, & newcomers who ALL seem to turn into regulars. to even compare with saigon grill is particularly odd, these 2 are not in the same chinese ballpark. additionally, the much EG- touted grand sichian is very good, but not in the same league as shun lee west!

←

I'm not from New York - but I've enjoyed the dim sum at Shun Lee Cafe on several occasions (first found the place on a trip to NYC when I wanted dim sum - but didn't feel like going all the way down to Chinatown to get it). Most recently (last month) - my husband and I hosted a post-bar mitzvah family lunch for about 15 there. Not the best dim sum in the world - but very good. And the service was gracious and attentive.

Note that I haven't been to Shun Lee Palace for perhaps 15 years - maybe 20. Didn't like it last time I went . Robyn

P.S. Regarding price - it was about $30/person including tip this last trip. But we had a lot of large young men who ate about twice as much as my husband and I usually eat. When we've gone there alone - it's usually about $20/person. Chinatown is cheaper (minus cab fare) - and sometimes better - but it's not always convenient to go there for a "dim sum" fix.

Edited November 29, 2004 by robyn (log)

[pidge]

A more interesting question is whether there were better Chinese restaurants on the UWS in the 70s than there are now, and if so, why. I answer to the first part of the question, with the caveat that I haven't had Chinese food on the UWS for some time, given my downtown location and also the job that takes me through Flushing every week, I think the answer is probably yes, but I may be wrong and wonder what others with long memories and fresher comparisons to UWS Chinese restaurants of today think. As to the answer to "why," I really have no idea.

←

maybe the question is actually whether the chinese food any of us experienced on the upper west side 15-20 years ago (let alone the 70's) was significantly worse than now or whether having been to chinatown or flushing more regularly, with the strong influx of chinese immigrants from different provinces and cuisines- coupled with our own burgeoning food culture, has made us all a little more jaded....or adventuresome? when i first moved to the neighborhood, i considered ollies and shun lee and whoever else to be very good, but my palate has definitely expanded since then. can i say that the food is no longer as good as it was--well,no not really, but it's just not what i expect any more.

and, yes, the rents and the basic expense of doing business in the neighborhood do make a difference. that accounts for the fact that what is there is so over-priced comparatively, and that's also why the uws suffers from a dearth of any young, new, exciting less expensive restaurants, bakeries and general little take out shops that others enjoy in their downtown and outer borough neighborhoods. it's just not possible to serve that kind of food and pay 70,000 a month for a corner space on b-way.

[Pan]

when i first moved to the neighborhood, i considered ollies and shun lee and whoever else to be very good, but my palate has definitely expanded since then.

←

Point well taken (as are other points in your post), but in answer to this one, there definitely were Chinese restaurants better and more interesting than Ollie's on the UWS in the 70s, and most of them were inexpensive. We already had Sichuan and Hunan restaurants in the mid-to-late 70s. Now, exactly how I compare a restaurant I knew as a child with one I eat at nowadays is a different question, and one worth pondering but ultimately unanswerable.

[Daniel]

Saigon grill is really good and that seems to be my go to.. In terms of Shun Lee palace, I am not a fan.. Really boring stuff.

←

that's classic i assume you are referring to shun lee west on W 65th?

shun lee WEST, not the awful shun lee PALACE on the eastside, may be the best chinese restaurant in the city, & to characterize as boring signifies a lack of familiarity with the varied number of interesting selections on their menu ranging from mild-to-spicy; or using another criteria - every nite, 7 nites a week, 4 weeks a month, 12 months a year, year-after-year; shun lee has a filled restaurant with both regulars, & newcomers who ALL seem to turn into regulars. to even compare with saigon grill is particularly odd, these 2 are not in the same chinese ballpark. additionally, the much EG- touted grand sichian is very good, but not in the same league as shun lee west!

←

Jesus christ! I am assuming you like this place. You are right i am mistaken, I had only been to the Sun Lee cafe, the attachment to Shun Lee. At this place i had the dim sum, and found the dim sum to be very boring and overpriced. However, it is too far get delivery to my girls place.. Also in terms of the menu at shun lee i really dont like that type of stuffy chinese food. Something i never find in china. Would you compare the type of cuisine close to the food at mr chow or chin chin? Cause i hate both those places.