Cutting edge kosher restaurants: not abba's kosher

[Gifted Gourmet]

Newsday article

Put aside the notion of pastrami on rye washed down with Dr. Brown's Cel-Ray soda. These days - under strict rabbinical supervision - you can knock back a killer ginger-lemongrass martini, follow it with roasted Chilean sea bass in a fragrant Thai curry sauce and finish the meal with a hot caramel souffle. Clearly, these restaurants aren't the predictable pot-roast- and-kugel places they used to be.  Nobody's laughing these days, when so much is new in the kosher vernacular. Sushi, which may be served in both meat and dairy restaurants, is sweeping the observant community with tsunami force. Kosher steak houses are the near-clones of their nonkosher counterparts, save for the absence of dairy products and certain cuts of meat. Asian fusion, French and Mediterranean fare?

If you eat out and keep kosher, are there places like these outside of NYC?

Ever want to take out friends who do keep kosher and feel defeated by the meagre options?

Bloviatrix knows about some or all of these options in NYC ... do you?

And, even if you don't know or care about kosher food, might one of these places appeal to you because they are now so modern and competitive?

[bloviatrix]

I've eaten at all the restaurants they mention that are located in Manhattan. I'm also familiar with the Sushi Metsuyans in Cedarhurst and Teaneck although I haven't eaten at either. For most of my thoughts on the kosher dining scene, you can look here. I admire that there are chefs attempting to raise the bar with kosher dining. Despite the fact that there are those who understand good food, many in the community just don't get it. The frequency that I hear complaints about serving sizes or flavors is all too often.

I will admit that we were underwhelmed by our dinner at Solo. Of course, we had eaten at Per Se three weeks earlier, which could have something to do with it . However, we ate lunch there twice in October during their $20.05 special and found it to be outstanding. Their burger is one of the best I've ever eaten, with a fantastic bun that held up to the juiceyness. And their mushroom veloute was "lick the bowl" good. My mouth still waters when I think about it.

Personally, my favorite place to eat is Le Marais, which is owned by the guys who own Les Halles (of Bourdain fame). But, I like big steaks that are nice and bloody. When it opened, I felt like I was experiencing redemption because I could finally take clients out for steak and actually get to eat something other than fish. Great, now I'm craving a hanger steak with a nice bottle of red wine.

[Jason Perlow]

we had eaten at Per Se three weeks earlier, which could have something to do with it

What could have you eaten at Per Se that would have been even remotely kosher? The vegetarian tasting menu? The kitchen isn't certified. Unless you just didn't care about that.

[bloviatrix]

We did the vegetable tasting menu at Per Se. Furthermore, Blovie had them make a substitution for the cheese course.

[Jason Perlow]

Okay, but, it didn't bother him that shellfish and pork products were likely served on the same dishes that you were eating on? Or meat and dairy in combination? Or even cooked in the same pans as the food you were eating?

I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what Orthodox Jews will tolerate, because I have several as friends and business associates, and most of them would be totally resistent at the thought of going to eat at Per Se or at any restaurant that wasn't under Kosher supervision -- and its always a challenge going out to eat with them, they pretty much have to pick the place.

I have to really claim ignorance in this regard as far as understanding Kashruth. I thought that Orthodox Jews don't eat at restaurants that are non-kosher, period. I mean from the other posts that you have made in the past regarding your dietary restrictions, I sort of inferred that you guys were pretty hardcore Orthodox -- or rather, your husband was more Kosher observant than you were, but you both belong to an Orthodox shul and you kept a strictly Kosher household, but when you both went out to eat, it was at Kosher restaurants. Am I reading that correctly? I'm a bit confused.

[MHesse]

With the mini crustaceans swimming around in the tap water, one can't even wash the plates anymore and keep them kosher.

[Gifted Gourmet]

Not if one purchases and uses the filter to which bloviatrix refers ... and it is none too simple to not only be aware of these issues in keeping kosher but to adhere to them scrupulously in fulfilling Jewish law as it was intended ... I admire her tenacity and enthusiasm for kashrut ..

[tsquare]

Newsday article

If you eat out and keep kosher, are there places like these outside of NYC?

Ever want to take out friends who do keep kosher and feel defeated by the meagre options?

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I considered eating at a kosher restaurant in Venice. Yes, Italy. In the "original" ghetto area, there are a few that I walked by. But Italian cuisine without pork products? I didn't study the menus long enough to be able to recite what they were serving.

Settled for buying a bottle of water from the kosher market down the block.

[bloviatrix]

I considered eating at a kosher restaurant in Venice. Yes, Italy. In the "original" ghetto area, there are a few that I walked by. But Italian cuisine without pork products? I didn't study the menus long enough to be able to recite what they were serving.

Settled for buying a bottle of water from the kosher market down the block.

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I believe the kosher restaurant in Venice is dairy. At least it was in '97 when I ate there. The menu was fish and hand-made pasta.

[Pan]

I considered eating at a kosher restaurant in Venice. Yes, Italy. In the "original" ghetto area, there are a few that I walked by. But Italian cuisine without pork products?

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What's wrong with Italian dishes that have no pork products in them? I'm sure you've had some, and I suspect that if you cook some of Edda Servi Machlin's recipes, you won't miss the pork.

[Jason Perlow]

Speaking of upscale kosher Italian, here's some pics from The Pasta Factory in Teaneck NJ, a dairy/fish restaurant:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=56010&hl=

[Pam R]

If you eat out and keep kosher, are there places like these outside of NYC?

Ever want to take out friends who do keep kosher and feel defeated by the meagre options?

I think there are few places that have kosher restaurants like this. You need to have the population to support them - at least in places where things don't cost as much as they do in NY. Toronto has kosher chinese,sushi,steakhouses, italian, etc. Montreal is probably next in line - but far behing Toronto. The rest of Canada has even fewer choices.

We have operated kosher restaurants here (Winnipeg) off and on for the last 15 years or so. We've tried dairy (sold is vegetarian/dairy to the non-Jews) and we've tried meat. We have found that we just don't have the population to support it. Many of our customers were non-Jews and many of the Jews weren't religious or keep kosher. But in a small city, when prices are extremely low in restaurants, you can't compete when you have to bring in all of your kosher meat, most of your dairy and many other ingrediants from other places.

It would be nice to have some options. I do eat in non-kosher restaurants, and I am hardly what you would call religious - but I do have family members and friends who are orthodox and it would be nice to have some options.

[Pam R]

Okay, but, it didn't bother him that shellfish and pork products were likely served on the same dishes that you were eating on? Or meat and dairy in combination? Or even cooked in the same pans as the food you were eating?

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This varies with each individual but - being in the kosher business, and spending a lot of time in synagogues, my family has always been very friendly with rabbis and their families.

I have known orthodox rebbitzens who will eat cold (raw) foods in non-kosher restaurants (though I've always thought that odd) and I have known conservative rabbonem who wouldn't.

[Gifted Gourmet]

It would be nice to have some options.  I do eat in non-kosher restaurants, and I  am hardly what you would call religious - but I do have family members and friends who are orthodox and it would be nice to have some options.

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Pam, an article on the kosher ramifications of eating "out" by the Metrodox by our own Rabbi Ribeye ( and this is reprinted with his express permission to use this excerpt whenever relevant):

Metrokosher Musings

Many of us metrokosher still travel in, or on the periphery of, the orthodox Jewish world. The most kindly of our by-the-book kashrut-observant coreligionists wistfully tolerate us, or simply ignore our foibles. We are roundly condemned, excoriated by the less tolerant among them, no credit for effort that falls short of perfect, just the denunciation that “You might as well be eating traife.” And technically they are probably right. So, from an icky-picky legalistic perspective, let me not dwell on the minutiae that we metrokosher do not observe, because they are mindboggling and probably condemn us all to same hell as . . . David Rosengarten and Al Franken.  By its very nature, metrokosher plays fairly fast and loose with the rules. Clearly, we will not eat pork, shellfish, beef and poultry that has not been ritually slaughtered and prepared, and milk and meat in combination. After that, “what we do” and “what we don’t” eat out is pretty much the oxymoronic free-for-all of conscience.

Some metrokosher borderliners stay away from anything in restaurants beyond cold foods like salads. Culinary snobs thumb your noses, but salad bars for these folks can be a welcome metrokosher respite from the daily same-old same-old at home. And, if the cold-only folks push the envelope just a little further and go for sushi, upscale places like Minado (in the New York/New Jersey area, Boston and Atlanta) present an endless variety of ocean-fresh rolls and nigiri and the most beautifully displayed oriental salads.

[Pam R]

Thanks Melissa. I love the musings.. and now of course will be explaining what metrokosher means to everybody I know! (as well as metrodox!)

Rabbi Ribeye is a wise man.