Dining Talk 2004

[shocker]

and the space while very dimly lit is pleasant (except for the mirrors on the wall which are in need of cleaning).

i'd wager they (the mirrors) aren't dirty. something more akin to glass patina.

but, yes, they sure look dirty.

good on you two for taking the leap and checking it out for yourselves. sounds like one yay and one nay.

but it still adds up to 'way overrated' if i've done the math correctly.

Edited July 5, 2004 by shocker (log)

[marlena spieler]

last trip last month i loved:

lluna basque: their seared tuna in roquerfort sauce, also the potatoes with herbs and vinegar, and the pineapple gratin.

town hall. we ate everything there in tiny portions (it was a party). wow. really yum, and a nice buzz too.

slanted door as usual, though my shakin beef was overcooked. i'd ask for it rare rare rare next time. everything else was up to its normal deliciousness.

and i like a funky el salvatorian place in the mission that makes creamy black beans but don't know if i should share it.......i have to have a think. i kinda like keeping it my little secret, big fear: it would get yuppified......but its worth trawling around the area for these funky wonderful places. heartwarming in more ways than one. .

oh yeah and i hated chez spencer for more reasons that i could count for here though a number of the dishes were well executed.

foreign cinema is always good, though havne't been there in a while. the couple who own it are fine chefs, the food is stylish, delicous, honest all at the same time.

welcome to san francisco,

marlena

x marlena

[tsquare]

This place has just come back on my radar recently. Hasn't the chef just received a Best New Chef or something award from Food and Wine?

Eww, I read her blurb in the Top Ten New Chefs - her favorite appliance is the microwave! I hope that was a joke.

[MsMelkor]

good on you two for taking the leap and checking it out for yourselves. sounds like one yay and one nay.

Actually there were three of us. I had about the same reaction as Melkor.

One thing that struck me as odd: After Pim left a few tomatoes on her plate, the server kept asking her after each course if everything was OK. I understand she wanted to make sure she was happy, but it seemed intrusive.

[winesonoma]

and the space while very dimly lit is pleasant (except for the mirrors on the wall which are in need of cleaning).

i'd wager they (the mirrors) aren't dirty. something more akin to glass patina.

but, yes, they sure look dirty.

If the mirrors are old they are likely De-Silvering witch will cause them to look black.

[rdailey]

The quality of ingredients was good, but again not great.  Compared to other meals  at that level that I've had lately, the ingredient quality was really not all that great.  For example, the Bellwether farm lamb was nothing compared to Elysian farm lamb that the French Laundry and Trio use.

FYI, Thomas Keller uses Bellwether Farms (Calif) lamb for a few months in the spring and early summer, the rest of the year uses the Elysian Farms (Penn) lamb. He prefers the Bellwether Farms meat. Not sure about Trio...

[pim]

oops. my mistake.

I didn't like that lamb though, it didn't taste like a very good lamb, in my opnion at least.

I like Bellwether farm cheeses, but not particularly the meat, at least not that piece I had at CNH.

[pim]

One thing that struck me as odd: After Pim left a few tomatoes on her plate, the server kept asking her after each course if everything was OK. I understand she wanted to make sure she was happy, but it seemed intrusive.

Now I remember those tomatoes. They were very pretty, peeled, and doused (far too liberally) in a vinaigrette. The acidity in the vinaigrette was so overpowering it was all i could taste--nothing about the taste of early summer cherry tomatoes, only the acidic vinaigrette. They could have been using January Safeway tomatoes....

[jschyun]

I would sooner return to CNH than Boulevard or Fleur de Lys.

Just a question, why do you guys hate Boulevard so much? I'm not going to argue that's it's a destination restaurant, but I've been there a couple of times, and never had a horrible meal. And usually, I get out of there for around $100 (back in the day) - $200 per couple, which seems cheaper than CNH. Perhaps you can enlighten me, as I admit, I'm more about Asian food than Western style food.

--I'll admit the recent dessert offerings aren't my faves.

Edited July 8, 2004 by jschyun (log)

[MsMelkor]

Just a question, why do you guys hate Boulevard so much? I'm not going to argue that's it's a destination restaurant, but I've been there a couple of times, and never had a horrible meal. And usually, I get out of there for around $100 (back in the day) - $200 per couple, which seems cheaper than CNH. Perhaps you can enlighten me, as I admit, I'm more about Asian food than Western style food.

--I'll admit the recent dessert offerings aren't my faves.

I just don't find it compelling. Most dishes I tried were fine, but nothing stood out as extraordinary.

[little ms foodie]

I'm surprising my husband with a weekend in SF for our 1 year wedding anniversary in Sept. We really enjoy eating and drinking out and would love some insider recommendations for our weekend.

Of course I tried for reservations at the French Laundry but I'm on a waiting list. I doubt anyone ever cancels!

We love all types of food but really love Seafood, Italian and French. We haven't been to any of the tried and true SF restaurants so I'm thinking maybe Aqua? Chez Panisse, Boulevard?

Since we haven't started experiencing the famed chefs of SF where would you suggest we start?

Will be staying at either the Omni or the W downtown if that matters......

Thank you!!

[KatieLoeb]

I'm surprising my husband with a weekend in SF for our 1 year wedding anniversary in Sept. We really enjoy eating and drinking out and would love some insider recommendations for our weekend.

Of course I tried for reservations at the French Laundry but I'm on a waiting list. I doubt anyone ever cancels!

We love all types of food but really love Seafood, Italian and French. We haven't been to any of the tried and true SF restaurants so I'm thinking maybe Aqua? Chez Panisse, Boulevard?

Since we haven't started experiencing the famed chefs of SF where would you suggest we start?

Will be staying at either the Omni or the W downtown if that matters......

Thank you!!

Don't miss having sunset cocktails at Top of the Mark at the Mark Hopkins Hotel. Incredibly romantic, the entire city twinkles like a jewel at your feet. The views are awe inspiring and they make a proper cocktail as well as usually having live jazz playing. It's quite a lovely way to spend an hour or so.

[Absonot]

If you choose Chez Panisse, please note it's in Berkeley across the bay, which would be a hefty cab fare...although I'm sure worth it. Not sure if you're renting a car?

Boulevard is a can't-lose option, and it's right off the Embarcadero, which is a lovely place for a leisurely stroll before or after dinner.

[Squeat Mungry]

You'll find lots of suggestions and discussion on this thread.

You can't go wrong at any of the three restaurants you mention (though I have not been to Aqua for some time). You might add Gary Danko to the list, and Oliveto in Oakland. Zuni Cafe is a uniquely San Francisco experience you might consider, possibly for lunch.

Since you say you enjoy Italian and French, at the risk of sounding like a broken record (anyone remember those?), I'll again mention that my current favorite dining experience in town is at Quince. Very romantic and charming room with excellent and creative Mediterranean-inspired food (including some amazing housemade pasta dishes) and terrific service. Other eGulleteers who have been have also given favorable reports. (If you decide to go to Quince, reserve early. The dining room is tiny and books up well in advance.)

Katie's suggestion for sunset cocktails at the Top of the Mark is an excellent one.

Cheers, and enjoy your visit to San Francisco!

Squeat

[fiftydollars]

In SF I recommend you strongly consider going to at least one of the following:

Gary Danko

La Folie

Fleur de Lys

These are, in my opinion, some of San Francisco's most consistently outstanding restaurants and you are almost guaranteed to have a great meal there.

Zuni Cafe, One Market Street, The Slanted Door, Betelnut... these are also great choices and you won't be dissappointed by any of them.

Chapeau! is a new favorite of mine. It is small in a location and neighborhood quite out of the way, but the food and the service are outstanding.

Just outside of San Francisco, in Berkeley, there is Chez Panisse and I can't think of any reason not to go there. It's easily one of the best restaurants in the world and you can usually get in by making a reservation 1-month to the day.

In Oakland there is Oliveto, which dishes up some of the best Italian food in CA and they can often get you in with only a few days notice.

Michael Mina recently opened a new restaurant at the St. Francis and I can bet that it is outstanding given his record at another SF great, Aqua.

[melkor]

From the suggestions already offered I'd go with Chez Panisse, Gary Danko, Zuni, Slanted Door, and Quince. There are a handful of places people seem to really enjoy that I've found either awful or underwhelming - Fleur de Lys, Oliveto, Charles Nob Hill, and Boulevard in my mind range in order from quite bad to just unremarkable.

I'd also add 1550 Hyde and Delfina to your list of places to visit while in town.

[bilrus]

My recommendations, as a tourist with two visits last year -

Chez Panisse is one of my favorite restaurants I have been to - the cooking is not going to blow you away with its elaborate recipes or presentations, but it is a place that makes me smile. And that is a good recommendation. I've only been to the upstairs Cafe, but I know many people recommend that over the downstairs, prix-fixe dining room.

Slanted Door, at its previous location was a disappointment to me. The food was OK, but the atmosphere felt like being in a huge Pizzaria Uno to me. This of course could have changed with the move, but I am more fond of something slightly more intimate than what I found there.

Zuni is a fun place with a buzz and good, simple food cooked well.

I am a fan of Farallon - excellent seafood in a cool, "underwater" setting. This was a pleasnat surprise on our last trip.

Do Dim Sum somewhere. We did Yank Sing, which was good, but not super cheap. Others certainly will have more suggeestions.

[little ms foodie]

Man! You guys are good! thank you!

So on Chez Panisse what is the difference between upstairs and downstairs? Is one better for a weekend dinner? Also what would you think cab fare might be? We aren't renting a car so I will have to take that into consideration.

Thanks for the cocktail recommendation! I will check the map and see where Top of the Mark is in relation to where we will be, sounds great!!

[melkor]

Also what would you think cab fare might be? We aren't renting a car so I will have to take that into consideration.

I'd guess it'd cost $50 or so each way by cab - it's likely to be cheaper to just rent a car for 1 night.

[Squeat Mungry]

Cab fare from the City to Chez Panisse and back will cost you as much as if not more than the meal. However, it is a breeze to get to by BART.

Top of the Mark will be easy to reach no matter which hotel you choose. You can take a cable car there!

Admittedly based on only one visit, but I'd put 1550 Hyde in the "quite bad to just unremarkable" category. Nowhere in the league of Quince, Zuni, Danko, CP, etc.

Squeat

[fiftydollars]

Upstairs at Chez Panisse they feature a more casual atmosphere with lower prices. They also have pizza, which is a must for any fan of Alice Waters.

Downstairs they have a fixed price menu that changes daily. Normally the menu gets more elaborate and expensive as the week progresses into weekend. Mondays usually feature the more modest offerings and Saturdays they pull out the stops... so to speak.

I recommend the downstairs dining experience if you've never been because that's the original format and the soul of Chez Panisse.

[Squeat Mungry]

Mondays usually feature the more modest offerings and Saturdays they pull out the stops... so to speak.

I recommend the downstairs dining experience if you've never been because that's the original format and the soul of Chez Panisse.

The Monday dinners downstairs are also a real bargain at $50 prix-fixe.

[fiftydollars]

The Monday dinners downstairs are also a real bargain at $50 prix-fixe.

Good point!

Take a look at the menu for this week:

http://www.chezpanisse.com/downmenu.html

[melkor]

Cab fare from the City to Chez Panisse and back will cost you as much as if not more than the meal. However, it is a breeze to get to by BART.

Top of the Mark will be easy to reach no matter which hotel you choose. You can take a cable car there!

Admittedly based on only one visit, but I'd put 1550 Hyde in the "quite bad to just unremarkable" category. Nowhere in the league of Quince, Zuni, Danko, CP, etc.

Squeat

I wouldn't put 1550 Hyde in the same company as Danko, CP, or Quince - but then again I wouldn't put Zuni there either. I've had consistantly good meals at 1550 Hyde, but then again you've had good meals at Boulevard

[Squeat Mungry]

I wouldn't put 1550 Hyde in the same company as Danko, CP, or Quince - but then again I wouldn't put Zuni there either.  I've had consistantly good meals at 1550 Hyde, but then again you've had good meals at Boulevard

Touche! For clarity, I should not have included Zuni in that list. I'd put it and Boulevard (where I have indeed had consistently good meals) in the same league, however. I do think both restaurants are at least a cut above the experience I had at 1550 Hyde.