Second trip to France

[Keith Talent]

My wife and I just bought airline tickets to France, It'll be our second trip in three years, and thus want to get out of Paris this time. We're on the ground nine days and would like to spend three in Paris, so my question is; Which region should we see next? We fly into CDG and arrive at approx. 11 AM so would be free to get on a train that day and head out. Assumably we'll rent a car at the other end and hopefully head somewhere rural-ish, but still in striking distance to urban centres?

We've discussed Alsace, Burgundy and Bordeaux. Don't know if it's significant, but we'll be traveling in November.

So the question is, where should we go? The problem is you take food out of the equasion, and planning gets tough, as that is generally the prime criteria in my family picking destinations.

Thanks in advance. We get the destination out of the way and I can start quering the board on specific restaurants and places to stay.

[GG Mora]

You can hop the TGV from CDG and be in Avignon in 4 hours. Pick up your rental car at the train station, and all of Provence is yours. Stay somewhere close to Avignon your first night; St. Remy is less than an hour by car and is a quiet enough place to revive after all that travel, but puts you squarely in rural France. Ile sur la Sorgue, Fontaine de Vaucluse, Gigondas are other possibilites. From there, you can explore down into the Camargue, or through the Luberon and over into the Var (where the Gorges du Verdun is a must-see must-drive experience). And you needn't take food out of the equation; it would be a crime to, since all of Provence is a culinary wonderland. Since it's in the South, the weather can still be quite decent in November.

[Keith Talent]

Thanks.

What I meant when I said take the food out of the equasion is that it will be (I hope and am 99.9999% certain of) equally good anywhere, so it can be discarded as a selection criteria.

[John Talbott]

Your wonderful question demands more info.

November is really unimportant, it's a fine time to travel in France; what is critical is (1) where you've been before and either want to repeat or avoid and (2) what you like, e.g. Maine's rugged coast, California's surf, B.C.'s mountains, Grand Canyon's spendor, Boston's Beacon Hill, etc.

Prior threads, which you should check out, have suggested the Loire, Provence, the Haute-Savoie, Brittany, Normandy, Langedoc, Burgundy, Bordeaux - you name it. All are great, all should be seen, but you have to define the parameters.

GG Mora is right; almost anyplace in France is but a few hours from Roissy or Paris on the TGV; Avis has rentals at almost every train station and almost every stop leads you to wonderful sights and food.

Before Colette and I went to China a few years ago, a sage friend said "Don't worry if you miss the bus for some afternoon trip; you'll find something just as interesting." The same thing holds for rural France; you can't go wrong, except maybe in the Pas de Calais.

But give us some details of your likes & dislikes.

[Keith Talent]

I guess what I'm looking for is specific recommendations, France, I suspect, is wonderful everywhere and wherever we go will be great. Eliminate cuisine, and I guess the criteria become somewhere local, ie. definately France, as opposed to places like the Algarve or Costa del Sol in Spain where you may as well be in Britian. Economy, somewhere my Euro isn't robbed from my pockets like a Scandanavian tax minister are is charge of my wallet. Then again economy and local seem to travel together. The only other thing would be somewhere with wine production, to tour vineyards and wineries.

Does France have a similar system to Italy with the Agriturismo accomodation designations? I can see myself in a stone building on a hilltop surrounded by vines sipping local plonk snacking on great hunks of foie gras, cheese and coarse pate waiting for my wife to finish doing her hair and makeup prior to going for dinner somewhere simple, but authentic and good.

Maybe Provence if the weather still will be fine should be given extra consideration over more northerly locales.

I'm getting out the darts and a big map of France.

[GG Mora]

I'm getting out the darts and a big map of France.

That's very nearly the wisest thing to do.

The Dordogne Valley / Perigord is quite beautiful, too, and may still be temperate in November. Also, by November it's less likely to be overrun with Brits – not that the British invasion is entirely a bad thing except that it can make it more a British than a French experience. The Perigord has the advantage of being foie-gras Ground Zero, in addition to all the other duck-goose products (I think nearly everything is required to be cooked in duck fat), the truffles and everything walnut (Liqueur de Noix is a tasty diversion from wine and Armagnac). The architecture in the region is quite stunning, too, with chateaux around nearly every bend, perched on rock faces and in some cases built right out of the rock. In La Roque Gageac, the village homes seem to sprout from the rose-ochre rock wall, and as you look higher up you see the pentimento of previous inhabitants all the way back to the Troglodytes. And the self-flagellating can wander over to Roquamador and scale the stone steps on their knees.

And then there's the Basque country, where la France profond rests cheek by jowl with the ritz of Biarritz and Bayonne, and there's opportunity to throw Spain in the mix.

My point is that you can hardly go wrong.

Edited August 6, 2004 by GG Mora (log)

[Orik]

The Dordogne Valley / Perigord is quite beautiful, too, and may still be temperate in November. Also, by November it's less likely to be overrun with Brits – not that the British invasion is entirely a bad thing except that it can make it more a British than a French experience.

I love the Dordogne, but would actually recommend going there in early-mid October - most of the tourists have gone, but businesses haven't closed down for the winter quite yet. (yes, many good restaurants, hotels and B&Bs are completely closed). Burgundy might be a better option that time of year.

[Schneier]

They're all good options.

My advice: get yourself a Michelin green guide. The guide lists all sort of sights in France, but not by region. The sites are listed alphabetically, and are all mixed together. Flip through the guide book, and choose ten or twenty things that you'd like to see.

Then, go visit the region that has the plurality of the things you've chosen.

Bruce

[42390]

I had a fabulous vacation in Alsace in June and highly recommend it. Some may say that it is not really hard core France, and it is not since it has traded hands between France and Germany a number of times. The scenery will make you think you are in Germany but the cooking is definitely French.

Within about a 40 mile range of Strasbourg you will find numerous starred restaurants and plenty more local winstube type of places. I stayed in the hotel associated with Auberge du Cheval Blanc (2 stars in the red guide) in Lembach. Here is a link. Cheval Blanc The 6 or 7 rooms there run from about 107e to 190e. This is a great place. There are plenty more small hotels with good restaurants attached in the area with rooms in the 50e - 60e range. Here is a link to an example: Hotel Restaurant Anthon

This area is an agricultural paradise. There are fruit orchards and vineyards everywhere. There is a road called the Route de Vin d'Alsace that winds through miles of picturesque villages where you can stop and sample a wide variety of wines (mostly white) and locally produced eau de vie.

Depending on which town you choose as your base for exploring the area, it is a 4 to 5 hour drive from Paris or you can take the train to Strasbourg and rent a car from there. You are sure to enjoy this part of France.

[winemike]

My advice: get yourself a Michelin green guide. The guide lists all sort of sights in France, but not by region. The sites are listed alphabetically, and are all mixed together. Flip through the guide book, and choose ten or twenty things that you'd like to see.

That's a very good advice, indeed. On top of that, get yourself a Michelin red guide and check the repartition of starred restaurants on the map of France (if you're looking for food experiences...). It can help making a choice.

Being from Alsace, I surely encourage you to visit this wonderful region

[Underhill]

November would be a nice time to travel in Burgundy, and you can't do better for fine food and wine. The sightseeing is excellent, including noted cathedrals, museums, Roman ruins, and of course famous vineyards. Driving is generally easy, a plus if the winter should turn rainy. If the weather is good, there's all of the wild Morvan region to explore: good walking and hiking.

We love Provence, but that region can best be appreciated in spring or early fall. Burgundy conjures up images of old inns with flames crackling in the fireplace, a glass of good red wine, a dozen escargots in garlic sauce, a slice of paté...just right for cool weather.

[Keith Talent]

Thanks for all the help.

I think we've settled on Provence. *DISCLAIMER - NO DECISION IS FINAL. ALL PLANS SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF MRS. TALENT.

Anyway, we're trying to decide between being based around Avignon or Aix-en-Provence. Any more opinion out there?

Merci

[GG Mora]

Any more opinion out there?

Yup. I'm full of them.

It's my personal opinion that Aix is a more charming place to hang out. Additionally, it's more central to the whole of Provence. And ya just gotta love all those fountains.

Edit: On-street parking in Aix can be scarce, but there are several large underground car-parks. Also, I believe you can get directly to Aix on the TGV.

Edited August 11, 2004 by GG Mora (log)

[Carlsbad]

We were just in Provence in June for the second time. The TGV will take you to either Aix or Avignon. I agree that Aix is more charming and beautiful than Avignon, but the area around Avignon is beautiful and there many things to see. On both of our trips to Provence, brief as they were, we split the time between the two areas. I did quite a bit of research on hotels and restaurants in both areas. If you want, send me a personal message or email, and I'm happy to share what I learned.

[John Talbott]

I'll ditto Aix over Avignon; more to do, great scenery, good boules, a few more restaurant choices.

[menton1]

My favorite part of France is the Southwest; (although I love all parts of France). I am partial to Acquitaine because of the beautiful terrain (rolling hills and rivers) the most old chateaux in France (over 1200) just sitting on the highest point of the hills, the history (many caves here with fantastic 20,000 year old cave drawings!) and the prices. I have found the prices of hotels and restaurants to be 1/3 lower here than in Provence. Less touristy and more real as well. Many "Chambres D'hote" (bed & breakfasts) with Tables d'Hote (home-cooked meals).

Check out Sarlat or Cahors as a base.

Bon voyage!

[cigalechanta]

For dining, I prefer Avignon over Aix. Clos de Violette is one the few great places in Aix. But it is beautiful. Sugested reading: MFK Fisher's, "two towns in Provence, "

And "The Boss Dog." You'll get a feel of Aix.

[cigalechanta]

For dining, I prefer Avignon over Aix. Clos de Violette is one the few great places in Aix. But it is beautiful. Sugested reading: MFK Fisher's, "two towns in Provence, "

And "The Boss Dog." You'll get a feel of Aix.

[John Talbott]

Well, cigalechanta must be prescient, because after reading Patricia Well's review today of Christian Etienne's restaurant in Avignon, which I summarized in the most recent post to the Digest, I'd go there in a flash.

[bleudauvergne]

I can see myself in a stone building on a hilltop surrounded by vines sipping local plonk snacking on great hunks of foie gras, cheese and coarse pate waiting for my wife to finish doing her hair and makeup prior to going for dinner somewhere simple, but authentic and good. 

Keith, if that's what you're after, go west. The image you describe is taking place in Bordeaux. Follow your mind's eye. That's wine and fois gras territory. We were there last Autumn, in November, to be precise. It was light sweater weather. Warm enough to spend days out in the countryside, crisp autumn nights perfect for the fireside. Highlights included a lot of wine tasting at the vinyards in and around St. Emillion. To get an idea of what you can expect there, take a gander in Paula Wolfert's The Cooking of Southwest France. In the book she writes about the local fare, the fois gras, the cassoulet, the history and the people. From it you can get a good idea of what can be expected in the restaurants there. November is glorious in Bordeaux.

[Ocean_islands]

This is an almost impossible request to fulfill -- you'll just have to choose.

If it were me, I would choose Alsace, it's great in the autumn and Alsatian food is at its height. Other great autumn destinations: Dijon/Bourgogne and Lyon. If you have your slicker and like English Channel weather, I would say that Brittany's St. Malo and Normandy's Mont St. Michel would be quite breathtaking in late autumn -- brisk salty air, roiling clouds, and scarce tourists. Mont St. Michel is great to visit when no one else wants to be there -- its something you must experience once in your life, like Venice -- if, like Venice, you can get past the tourists because it's unbearable with the full tourist contingent present. If you go don't forget to try the lamb pre-sale. The lamb is raised on meadows seasoned with the salty air, and it can be tasted in the meat.

If you want to escape from all that Autumn brisk air, go to Provence. You won't be sorry whatever you choose, so choosing based on climatics is as good a reason as any. I would guess there will be more people in the warmer climes that time of year than the other tourist destinations.

If you want to make this dream come true: "I can see myself in a stone building on a hilltop surrounded by vines sipping local plonk snacking on great hunks of foie gras, cheese and coarse pate waiting for my wife to finish doing her hair and makeup prior to going for dinner somewhere simple, but authentic and good. " Don't forget that the vines don't have leaves in late November, so temper your expectations. There's a great little restaurant in the village Chateauneuf-du-Pape that looks just like this -- you could stay in Avignon and drive the wine road.

Edited August 18, 2004 by Ocean_islands (log)