Sacre bleu! It's the SAQ topic!

[ademello]

Food tastes run to fairly simple Hazan-inspired Italian country cuisine (the handle ain't for nothing), strongly spiced dishes (curries, chiles, etc.), relatively unadorned seafood, grilled meats (hurrah for BBQ season)...

So: any suggestions on good values that would allow me to walk away with no less than four -- dare I say five -- bottles?

Thanks!

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Best bang for the buck IMHO is the Petite Syrah from L.A. Cetto, from all places - Mexico. At $11.40 a bottle - 10 bottles for a little over a c-note with the current 10% sale - it's a steal and goes especially well with grilled meats, or even as a "cocktail" wine. It's my fave QPR wine from the SAQ. It's plenty bold with the fruit and flavors, and moderate heat for a Petite Syrah at only 13% alcohol.

[Mr. Fagioli]

Somehow I missed Carswell's recommendations a couple of posts up. Doh. Thanks retrospectively for those. Thanks also to wattacetti and ademello. I'll put together a basket of all of your recommendations...

[wattacetti]

Somehow I missed Carswell's recommendations a couple of posts up. Doh.

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If you're willing to set aside a bit of the budget to splurge, that Coldstream Hills Pinot Noir Carswell listed is a very good Pinot for the price. Still would leave about $73 for other bottles.

[carswell]

If you're willing to set aside a bit of the budget to splurge, that Coldstream Hills Pinot Noir Carswell listed is a very good Pinot for the price. Still would leave about $73 for other bottles.

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Actually, having opened bottles of both in the last month, I'd say the 2003 Domaine des Perdrix Bourgogne blows the Coldstream Hills out of the water.

Food tastes run to fairly simple Hazan-inspired Italian country cuisine (the handle ain't for nothing), strongly spiced dishes (curries, chiles, etc.), relatively unadorned seafood, grilled meats (hurrah for BBQ season)...

So: any suggestions on good values that would allow me to walk away with no less than four -- dare I say five -- bottles?

←

A highly arbitrary list of wines tasted in the last six months or so and that are still available. I set my upper limit at $30. I'm writing this from memory, too, so prices and spellings are approximate.

Rustic Italian

- San Lorenzo 2001, Rosso Conero, Umani Ronchi, $18. Suave montepulciano-based red from the Marches.

- Medoro 2002, Marche, Umani Ronchi, $12. Sangiovese from the Marches.

- Ulysse 2000, Etna, Duca di Castelmonte, $18. Sicilian red made from two indigenous neros, neither of them d'avola. Dark and juicy but not heavy. A favourite with grilled meats.

- Chianti classico 2002, Isole et Olena, $27. Not the greatest vintage but, as always, a lovely wine.

- Chianti classico 2001, Berardenga, Felsina, $26.

- Chianti classico 2002, Fonterutoli, $28.

- Vitiano 2003, Umbria, Falesco, $16. A savvy blend of sangiovese, merlot and cabernet sauvignon. Somewhat international in style but still a great buy. Give it an hour to breathe before serving.

Simply prepared seafood

- Soave 2002, Calvarino, Pieropan, $28. And the $40 La Rocca is simply stunning.

- Anselmi's VDTs (used to be Soave, now declassified): San Vincenzo, Capitel Foscarino, Capitel Croce, $17-$28

- Lacryma Christi del Vesuvio 2003, Mastroberardino, $21. The other Mastroberardino whites (e.g. Greco di Tufa) are good too.

- Viognier 2002, St. David's Bench, Niagara, Château des Charmes, $17. Absolutely nothing like a Condrieu (the top appellation for viognier) but a really pleasant, zesty dry white. All of CdC's whites are worthwhile, especially their late-harvest (sweet) riesling.

- Château de Fuissé 2001, St-Véran, $24. One of the best inexpensive white Burgs. The LCBO occasionally stocks the vieilles vignes, which is an order of magnitude better.

- Côtes-du-Rhône 2002, Guigal, $20. Very good white despite the tricky vintage. Better than many Châteauneuf-du-Papes.

- Château St-Martin de la Garrigue 2002, Coteaux du Languedoc, $19. Dry, complex, lively with an intriguing bitterness of the finish.

- Château Roquebrun 2002, Coteaux du Languedoc, $18. Denser, heavier than the preceding, so better suited to richer fish.

- In Alsatian whites, the current line-ups from Trimbach, Hugel and Beyer are all excellent. Prices range from $15 to $50 and beyond, depending on the grape and the cuvée. At the low-end, Hugel's Gentil is hard to beat.

Grilled meats

- Big House Red 2002, Ca' del Solo (Bonny Doon), $20. Crazy red blend.

- Koonunga Hill 2002, Shiraz-Cabernet, Penfolds, $17.50.

- Peyrouzelles 2002, Gaillac, Domaine de la Causse Marine $17.50. Fruity, easy going, great with grilled meats like pork and rabbit and with duck confit.

- Château Mourgues du Grès 2003, Galets Rouges, Costières-de-Nîmes, $17. Très syrah with grenache in a supporting role.

- Zinfandel 2002, Cline, $20.

- Château Monauriol 2000, Côtes-du-Frontonnais, $18. Made from the negrette grape. Unique.

- Mas Cal Demoura 2000, L'Infidèle, Coteaux du Languedoc, $27. Classic Languedoc.

- Côtes-du-Rhône 2001, Guigal, $20. Several excellent CdRs from small producers (e.g. L'Oratoire St-Martin, Cuvée Antique, Domaine Richaud) have sold out. While the Guigal may not have quite the personality, it remains good juice.

- Tercius 2000, Ribatejano, Falua-Sociendade de Vinhos, $19. Portuguese red blend perfect with grilled meats. Not a lot left in the network.

Spicy food is always a challenge. For discussions, search the Wine forum for Indian or search the India forum for wine. Ultimately, beer rules.

Edited April 8, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Mr. Fagioli]

Wow. Splendid stuff; I can't thank you enough for the effort.

Unfortunately life is intruding somewhat and I may miss out on the current sale, but it's still good to have the guidance.

As for spicy food: I prefer beer for that as well, but almost nobody drinks beer anymore among my friends. (I'm not sure why getting into wine means abandoning beer, but that seems to be the path. Maybe they're just trying to cut back on carbs...which is such a dull topic that I've never bothered to bring it up.)

Personally I still drink beer, but wine seems to be essential at any gethering these days even if we're eating something really fiery.

[Mr. Fagioli]

A quick & partial update: I made a shortened list of many (but not all) of the suggested bottles under $20 and went to my local Sélection. I was only able to find the Monauriol 2000 and the Cetto Petite Syrah. Haven't had the Monauriol yet, but I'll bet we'll be seeing the Cetto at bbq's all summer, until supplies are exhausted. At great buy for less than $12.

The staffer who helped me determine that everything else on my list was sold out did mention that all the recommendations were excellent. Maybe if I have some time later in the week I'll see if any of the other bottles are still in stock.

[carswell]

The staffer who helped me determine that everything else on my list was sold out did mention that all the recommendations were excellent. Maybe if I have some time later in the week I'll see if any of the other bottles are still in stock.

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The staffer is talking about his/her outlet. Most if not all the bottles mentioned can still be found around town. Your best bet is the Sélection stores, like Laurier West, Beaubien, Rockland, Atwater, the Forum, Fairview and de Maisonneuve. Alternatively, you can order at least some of the wines online and have them delivered to your door.

To check availability, go to the SAQ's website www.saq.com (once there, click the L at the top of the page to switch to English) and in the Search box type all or part of the wine's, producer's or appellation's name. Then find the wine you want from the search results and click the corresponding Outlets link (if the wine is available online, there will be an "Add to cart" link too). Select the geographic area you're interested in (e.g. Greater Montreal) and you'll obtain a listing of all the outlets that carry the wine and the number of bottles they have in stock. Click on the outlet name for its business hours, address and phone numbers.

[Mr. Fagioli]

Thanks. Yes, I realize that he was talking about that particular outlet (Laurier, as it happens), but unfortunately I haven't got much time to schlep around town at the moment. For some reason I've never ordered directly from saq.com, but I may give it a go once I've polished off some of the things I already have around.

[carswell]

So I finally managed to snare a copy of the Sideways DVD at Phos (so popular you have to reserve two days in advance). And dinner was to be Shaking Beef (stir-fried filet chunks sauced with soy, mirin, fish sauce, sugar and pepper and served on a bed of watercress), a natural match for a New World pinot noir. Pleased with the fortuitous alignment of film, food and wine, I bopped over to the neighbourhood SAQ Classique — normally a well-stocked store (if it were any bigger, it'd have to be a Sélection) — to see what they had on offer. California? Nope. Oregon, Washington, B.C., Ontariariario? Fergettaboutit. Australia? Sorry, mate! South America, maybe? No way, Jose. New Zealand? You're dreamin'. I collar a clerk and ask if it's true they have not a single New World pinot noir in stock. He checks the same sections I just did, looks in back, diddles with the computer and drags me over to a display at the front of the store: Pinot Noir 2002, Central Coast, Private Selection, Robert Mondavi at $19.95 a bottle. "That's it?" I ask incredulously. "We sold our last bottles of even the high-end stuff a couple of weeks ago," he answered, "and the manager says he can't order any more. There's none left in the system. Ever since that movie came out. Now, if you'd like a bottle of merlot..."

Edited April 18, 2005 by carswell (log)

[Mr. Fagioli]

Hilarious, carswell. California pinot noir...Tickle Me Elmo for '05. (I'm thinking there must be a better analogy -- some product that became ridiculously hot because of a movie -- but I'm drawing a blank.)

Just a heads-up: the Sélection on Laurier has (or had as of yesterday) Quinta do Noval Silval vintage 1998 port for $51 (regular $63). I don't think this is a system-wide sale, though I could be wrong.

Personally not my thing, but looks like a good buy for those who are interested.

[wattacetti]

I was at the Sélection (440 de Maisonneuve o) this evening and decided to repeat Carswell's experiment and see if I could find any New World Pinot Noirs. There were exactly two: a 2000 Beaux Frères at $127 (one bottle) and a 1999 Beaulieu Vineyards at a slightly lower $75 (4 bottles). Everything else was European, though they did say that stock would eventually come in.

Plenty of Merlots, but I did notice that the 2001 Sauternes and Barsacs have started to trickle in.

[carswell]

Everything else was European, though they did say that stock would eventually come in.

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No doubting that. I wonder what effect the increased demand is going to have on prices, though.

Haven't seen any box-office figures but am surprised the film appears to be having such an impact in Quebec. The staff at Phos report that À la dérive is as much in demand as the original Sideways.

Speaking of the Signature store, this week's new arrivals circular listed Trimbach's pinot gris Vendange Tardive in half bottles from three long-past vintages at hard-to-believe prices: 1990 @ $47, 1988 @ $42 and 1985 @ $36.75. Not only do those prices seem low for 15-20 year old wines, they also seem backwards (normally the older a wine, the more expensive it is).

[sf&m]

Carswell, that's because the 199O Alsace Vintage is considered an exceptional year in general. Don't know anything about Trimbach.... but that 1990 could be a great deal. Same price as any Ontario Icewine. Thanks for the tip.

[carswell]

Carswell, that's because the 199O Alsace Vintage is considered an exceptional year in general.

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You're right about 1990 VTs, though it wasn't a banner year for botrytized wines (sélection de graines nobles). But '88 and '85 were also first-rate. Limiting myself to citing one "authority," here's Phaneuf in his 1993 Guide du vin:

1988 : Un grand millésime favorable aux vendanges tardives et même aux sélections de grains nobles. Des vins riches et fruités, mais plus nerveux que les 1989.

[...]

1985 : Un excellent millésime; des vins corsés et puissants rappelant le 1983. Les grandes cuvées vivront longtemps, en particulier les Gewurztraminer.

Plus nerveux usually means sharper, higher acid, which typically increases longevity.

Don't know anything about Trimbach.... but that 1990 could be a great deal.  Same price as any Ontario Icewine. Thanks for the tip.

While I haven't checked my notes, I don't recall tasting any of the three. I have had Hugel pinot gris VTs from '90 and '88, though, and they were lovely. But don't buy a bottle thinking you'll get something similar to an icewine. These will be nowhere near as dense or sweet. In fact, since they're Trimbach, they're almost certain to be dryish. (Along with, say, Hugel and Beyer and as opposed to, say, Zind-Humbrecht and Weinbach, Trimbach tends to avoid Parker-pleasing high residual sugar levels.) So I wouldn't think of them as dessert wines. They'd probably be happiest accompanying a seared foie gras scallop with a not very sweet sauce. Or being sipped as a deluxe aperitif or digestif. I could also see them pairing nicely with a fish or shellfish first course like scallops in a curried cream sauce.

Trimbach's regular and reserve lines of rieslings, gewurztraminers, pinot blancs and pinot gris are almost always worthwhile. But to really understand the beauty of Trimbach and the genius of Alsace, hotfoot it to the Westmount SAQ and pick up one or two of the Island's nine remaining bottles of the 1999 riesling Cuvée Frédéric Émile. Gorgeous now and capable of improving for at least another ten years. Pricey at $49 but it's one of the world's most enthralling expressions of dry riesling. Plus it's a relative bargin next to its rarer stablemate, Clos Saint-Hune.

Edited April 23, 2005 by carswell (log)

[phedre]

Ok guys, this was REALLY fun. I've been looking to extend my wine selections lately. I tend to get into 'wine ruts', where I'll only buy what I know. For the past month, I've been making a concerted effort to NOT buy anything I've had in the past.

I went through the last page of posts, and picked five wines that caught my eye (and was available on saq.com).

So here's the rundown:

Shiraz Scothmans Hill geelong Australie 2001

Moulin-à-vent Château des Jacques Louis Jadot 2001

Pinot gris Bodega Lurton mendoza Argentine 2004

Petite syrah L.A. Cetto Mexique 2002 (x2 cause it was CHEAP!)

Pinot noir Coldstream Hills Yarra Valley Australie 2002

To be delivered on Wednesday morning. If they suck, I'm gonna hunt you all down ;)

I'm looking forward to trying them all!

And what is UP with this pinot noir craze? Seriously people! *mutter* i hate bandwagon jumpers.

[phedre]

Actually, as long as we're talking about SAQ wine, i recently picked up a bottle of

Riesling Rosacker Hunawihr alsace grand cru 2000. Product code for the SAQ is 00642553

I'm loving it :)

[phedre]

Ok, i've received my SAQ shipment, and this evening uncorked this:

Pinot Noir 2002, Yarra Valley, Coldstream Hills

Carswell: did you notice that the wine looked... cloudy? It just looks off. Or am I imagining it? it looked almost like it was muddy. I've never seen anything quite like it before.

[ademello]

Ok, i've received my SAQ shipment, and this evening uncorked this:

Pinot Noir 2002, Yarra Valley, Coldstream Hills

Carswell: did you notice that the wine looked... cloudy? It just looks off. Or am I imagining it? it looked almost like it was muddy. I've never seen anything quite like it before.

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As far as I am concerned, the Coldstream Hills Pinot is no longer worth drinking. My $0.02 is that we have a bum batch in Montreal, the last few bottles I have tried in Quebec have varied between bland (on the high end of the scale) and horrible. Not sure what the cause is of this, but I suspect that somehow the wines were damaged during importing or that Coldstream has developed an acute case of bottle variaton. Hard to be believe the latter since I continue to drink the wine when abroad and it does not disappoint.

I see you that you have two other wines in your list that I love: The Scotchman's Hill and LA Cetto Petite Sirah. I hope you have better luck with those!

[carswell]

My experience parallels ademello's. I'm a longtime fan of Coldstream Hills and have nothing but respect for James Halliday, their founder and guiding light. I bought a bottle of the 2002 pinot noir not long after it was released and found it quite good. I bought a second bottle in March during the sale referred to at the top of this page and found it strange. Cloudy, like you mention, unbalanced and beety flavoured, almost a caricature of a New World pinot. I've since noticed a couple of bottles that were leaking under the capsule. My guess, like Mr. A's, is quality control issues. That's why I mentioned upthread that the 2003 Domaine des Perdrix Bourgogne blew the 2002 Coldstream Hills out of the water.

Cloudiness in a wine is not necessarily a defect, though I don't recall that first bottle of the 2002 being cloudy. And to be fair, I should point out that if any wine is affected by bottle/travel shock, it's pinot noir; usually you're best off letting it rest for a month or two after the kind of rough handling it receives during transport. Still, I think your bottle was probably defective; if you have more than 2/3 of it left, stick a cork in it and return it to the SAQ for a refund.

[phedre]

Yeah, i'll be returning it. The smell, taste, and look is all just... OFF! There was a sharpness to it that I just found strange and offputting, almost like vinegar, but not quite.

Oh well, back it goes! I'll give the Perdix a try, for sure! I'll return the coldstream to an SAQ that carries it.

Ademello: The LA Cetto was a great surprise! Had a bottle the other night with some friends. Great value for your money, definitely.

[jayt90]

I have one bottle of 1994 Coldstream Hills Pinot Noir Reserve buried in my cellar.

Have I left it too long?

[carswell]

Oh well, back it goes! I'll give the Perdix a try, for sure! I'll return the coldstream to an SAQ that carries it.

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There's very little left on the island. With four bottles, the Jean-Talon Station store looks like it might be your best bet. As always, give a call before making a special trip, wherever you go; just cuz www.saq.com says they have it doesn't mean they do.

I have one bottle of 1994 Coldstream Hills Pinot Noir Reserve buried in my cellar.

Have I left it too long?

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A bottle of the '95 Reserve opened last summer was disappointing. Not bad but lacking the wow factor of the bottles opened years earlier. One of the knocks against New World pinots is that they don't benefit from extended aging. The '95 certainly didn't disprove it.

[carswell]

In the FWIW department, www.saq.com just got a mostly cosmetic makeover. I wonder whether the Bill 101 types are going to raise a stink about the word English appearing top centre on every French page.

And a heads-up. As discussed recently on the wine forum, Kim Crawford's flagship Marlborough (New Zealand) suavignon blanc has suddenly shown up en masse at the SAQ. Product code: 10327701. The saq.com listing says it's the 2004 but so far wattacetti and I have only found the 2003 (please give a shout if you spot the 2004; it would be interesting to do a side-by-side comparison). Provided you like the style, which I've heard one hardcore Europhile dismiss as Fresca, it's good stuff: lemon-lime nose with a hint of jalapeno, bright and juicy on the palate with a crisp finish. The overall impression is much like biting into a piece of fruit. Very similar to, if lacking a bit of the zing of, the early Cloudy Bays that caused wine lovers the world over to sit up and take notice 15 years ago. Packaged in an elegant bottle with a screwcap, it's a great aperitif wine and is tailor made for accompanying cool summer salads and seafood dishes. The 2004, part of LCBO's April 30 release (along with KC's pinot gris, chard, merlot and rosé...), reportedly flew off the shelves at $19.95. Given the thousands of bottles in stores on Montreal island, someone at the SAQ obviously thinks the same thing's going to happen here, especially as the SAQ's list price is a way cool $16.95.

[wattacetti]

I have found the 2004 Crawford in Pierrefonds of all places (4777 St John's); all other outlets I've checked thus far carry the 2003. So, I now have a bottle on hand to do a side-by-side comparison between the two vintages.

[phedre]

I have found the 2004 Crawford in Pierrefonds of all places (4777 St John's); all other outlets I've checked thus far carry the 2003. So, I now have a bottle on hand to do a side-by-side comparison between the two vintages.

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Let us know how it turns out :) Too bad pierrefonds is so far away, or i'd be off to get a bottle or two of my own. The beaubien selection is carrying the 2003 only, and haven't even HEARD of a 2004. I picked up two bottles anyway, just to give them a try. I'll keep checking the thread for 2004 notifications.

Re: Perdrix - the downtown core is sold out. I managed to locate some in St. Laurent, and had them put three bottles aside for me. I'll be making a special (looooong) trip tomorrow to pick them up.