How dressed up do New Yorkers get?

[browniebaker]

What's all this about whether ties are "required"? Doesn't anyone like to dress up anymore? Why are men striving only to meet the minimum standard of dress at a restaurant?

Last month, on holiday in London, I was having dinner at the Dorchester Grill Room when I saw at another table a man who had obviously removed his dinner jacket and was wearing only black tie, white shirt, and black trousers. Need I say that, without the dinner jacket, he was dressed less attractively than even the waiters, who were wearing waistcoats?

So come on, gentlemen, please wear a tie, keep your jacket on, and raise the bar.

[oakapple]

I suppose this thread has already been done to death, but I'm wondering if there are any restaurants left in NYC that absolutely require a tie.

I'm pretty sure I was told to wear jacket and tie at Picholine when I dined there recently.

[tommy]

I sort of like dressing up for special occasions (perhaps because I'm a musician), so if I go to a fancy place, I usually wear a suit and tie, then depending on the temperature inside the place, may take off the jacket or/and tie when inside.

that's the interesting thing, though, pan. a lot of people where a suit and tie every day. it becomes something completely un-special. it's a uniform to a lot of people, and one that they'd just as soon lose after 10 hours if at all possible. hell, just pulling off a tie makes you feel like you've just broken out of shackles for some people.

personally, i'm happy that the trend in fine dining, and i would say in NYC overall, is getting away from formal dress, into whatever it's morphing into. everyone looks good in a smart suit, and i would say that most people even feel good in a smart suit. but the concept of the suit as a dinner uniform is becoming a thing of the past. yay.

women, however, have a lot of wiggle room. but they always look smart, so it's ok.

[tommy]

I suppose this thread has already been done to death, but I'm wondering if there are any restaurants left in NYC that absolutely require a tie.

I'm pretty sure I was told to wear jacket and tie at Picholine when I dined there recently.

i hesitantly respond to this, because it has been about 4 years since my last visit to picholine, but i was certainly not wearing a tie, and no one looked twice.

if anything, this might be a sign of blurry standards, and i certainly don't want those decisions put in the hands of the host on duty. going with the flow, i think, works.

[hshiau]

personally, i'm happy that the trend in fine dining, and i would say in NYC overall, is getting away from formal dress, into whatever it's morphing into.  everyone looks good in a smart suit, and i would say that most people even feel good in a smart suit.  but the concept of the suit as a dinner uniform is becoming a thing of the past. yay.

Actually, you might be surprised to learn that many firms in New York are starting to go back to requiring suits every day. Many of the law firms and banks have already started. This isn't to say everyone is going to do that but it does seem to be a trend.

Now, even though I'm not in favor of HAVING to wear a suit and tie every day to work, I would do so if I went out to a nice restaurant. Is it a uniform if you have to wear it to work? Absolutely! Is it feel special to wear it to a top New York City restaurant? Absolutely! Now why wouldn't I want to feel special in these cases? Would the restaurant feel less special if the guy at the next table was wearing sweatpants? Absolutely!

[Bux]

I suppose this thread has already been done to death, but I'm wondering if there are any restaurants left in NYC that absolutely require a tie.

I'm pretty sure I was told to wear jacket and tie at Picholine when I dined there recently.

By whom? I'm sometimes told to weat a jacket and tie, but it's usually my wife who's speaking. I haven't been to Picholine in a while. It's a pretty spiffy place, but I'd doubt a tie is required.

[tommy]

Actually, you might be surprised to learn that many firms in New York are starting to go back to requiring suits every day.  Many of the law firms and banks have already started.  This isn't to say everyone is going to do that but it does seem to be a trend. 

nope. not surprised at all. why would i be? many industries are losing the casual wear thing. whether or not that particular trend will bring back those styles of the 80's and early 90's remains to be seen. personally, i doubt it. we have a generation dominating the workforce that has never had to wear a suit to work. but that's another discussion, and one based purely on opinion, altogether.

Now, even though I'm not in favor of HAVING to wear a suit and tie every day to work, I would do so if I went out to a nice restaurant.  Is it a uniform if you have to wear it to work?  Absolutely!  Is it feel special to wear it to a top New York City restaurant?  Absolutely!  Now why wouldn't I want to feel special in these cases?  Would the restaurant feel less special if the guy at the next table was wearing sweatpants?  Absolutely!

we seem to have differing opinions on a few of these points. that's another great thing about NYC: you can't be overdressed.

Edited May 25, 2004 by tommy (log)

[hshiau]

we seem to have differing opinions on a few of these points.  that's another great thing about NYC:  you can't be overdressed.

Absolutely right! I lived in the Bay area for a couple of years in between stints in New York and was, it seemed, always overdressed.

But I suppose the original question really meant "How dressed down can you be?". I didn't help answer that.

Edited May 25, 2004 by hshiau (log)

[Fat Guy]

I'm only aware of two restaurants in New York City that still have policies in place requiring neckties for gentlemen: Le Cirque 2000 and Alain Ducasse at the Essex House. I'd be interested in hearing of any others where people are certain that a necktie is required -- as in, it is clearly stated as policy (for example on the restaurant's voicemail) and the restaurant truly is unlikely to admit you sans tie.

There are many other restaurants where only a jacket is required, and at several of those a necktie may be suggested.

[Pan]

Neckties only? Long ties aren't acceptable???

[Fat Guy]

I'm not familiar with that terminology.

[Suzanne F]

. . .

There are many other restaurants where only a jacket is required . . .

What, no shirt? No pants? Don't think I'd want to eat at those places.

Well, maybe no pants would be okay, if there are tablecloths.

[slkinsey]

A few thoughts on the metadiscussion:

First, it's interesting that some have observed a trend back towards formal dressing for work. I've held day jobs in some of the traditionally most conservatively-dressed business areas around (banking, law, etc.) and still haven't noticed that people are returning to suits, ties and white shirts. Ten years ago, I always had to wear a tie to work, which is something I haven't done in at least 5 years.

That said, I have noticed a trend away from Dockers and cotton bottondowns towards higher quality "dress slacks" and "soft constructed" sportcoats -- but I think this in general reflects a move towards a more upscale, urban definition of "business casual" as opposed to "LL Bean catalog casual." I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

Second, I have also always enjoyed "dressing up" too (although, in the interest of full disclosure, I tend to dress more formally than many in general). I would embrace the opportunity to wear a suit out to dinner three nights in a row. I tend to find that men are more resistant to dressing up than women. I think this is due to the fact that most men think of suits and related items of clothing as a necessary evil. As a result they don't often take the time or money to find a suit or sportscoat that really fits well, that looks great on them, that is comfortable to wear and that they actually like wearing.

Finally, I agree that it's almost impossible to overdress in NYC.

[bloviatrix]

That said, I have noticed a trend away from Dockers and cotton bottondowns towards higher quality "dress slacks" and "soft constructed" sportcoats -- but I think this in general reflects a move towards a more upscale, urban definition of "business casual" as opposed to "LL Bean catalog casual." I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

Actually, the appropriate definition for this look is "Relaxed Professional." (About 4 years ago I created a dress code policy for a client and this term made the most sense to everyone)

[Fat Guy]

I tend to find that men are more resistant to dressing up than women. I think this is due to the fact that most men think of suits and related items of clothing as a necessary evil. As a result they don't often take the time or money to find a suit or sportscoat that really fits well, that looks great on them, that is comfortable to wear and that they actually like wearing.

And as a result they get laid a lot less than they'd like to. The reality, gentlemen, is that, even if you're out with your wife, your love life will be improved by expending the time and effort to look your best.

[plpcolumbia]

Are there any restaurants in NYC where you could go in black tie? Or is that just for prom-goers these days?

[tommy]

I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

law and banking, according to one poster.

[Suzanne F]

Are there any restaurants in NYC where you could go in black tie? Or is that just for prom-goers these days?

You could probably go almost anywhere in black tie. Except maybe biker bars. Otherwise, we're pretty tolerant.

Actually, Maxime's (now gone) used to require it.

[hshiau]

I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

law and banking, according to one poster.

I have friends working for several investment banks that now wear suits. This may only be in the front office, sales and private client areas of the bank. I also don't know that this is a written rule yet but everyone's wearing suits and those who don't are frowned upon.

BTW, those in the high end fashion business (I don't mean retail) still wear suits.

[Bux]

Are there any restaurants in NYC where you could go in black tie? Or is that just for prom-goers these days?

I don't think there's anyplace one would go in black tie just to eat dinner. Wherever you go in black tie, an assumption would be made that you're dressing for some event after dinner, unless you're eating very late and it might be assumed you were coming from some party.

Although it's very hard to overdress in NY, I think it's quite easy to be spotted as a tourist by the way you overdress.

[tissue]

I tend to find that men are more resistant to dressing up than women.  I think this is due to the fact that most men think of suits and related items of clothing as a necessary evil.  As a result they don't often take the time or money to find a suit or sportscoat that really fits well, that looks great on them, that is comfortable to wear and that they actually like wearing.

And as a result they get laid a lot less than they'd like to. The reality, gentlemen, is that, even if you're out with your wife, your love life will be improved by expending the time and effort to look your best.

Word.

[hshiau]

Although it's very hard to overdress in NY, I think it's quite easy to be spotted as a tourist by the way you overdress.

I think it's easier to locate a tourist by how fast they walk.

[Fat Guy]

Are there any restaurants in NYC where you could go in black tie?  Or is that just for prom-goers these days?

I don't think there's anyplace one would go in black tie just to eat dinner.

Unless you happen to be the waiter . . .

[egator]

Although it's very hard to overdress in NY, I think it's quite easy to be spotted as a tourist by the way you overdress.

On the subject of spotting tourists, I was thinking this might be fun, although not really related to food (but sorta related to this topic)...

Finish this sentence.

New Yorkers would never be seen wearing....

or,

A surefire way to spot a tourist is...

I'm gonna go with, New Yorkers would never be seen wearing white Keds or Wrangler jeans (but as a tourist myself, I could be wrong - please tell me I'm not wrong).

[chefdavidrusso]

Finish this sentence.

New Yorkers would never be seen wearing....

....wool knit sweaters with pictures of little kittens on the front