How dressed up do New Yorkers get?

[slkinsey]

I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

law and banking, according to one poster.

I have friends working for several investment banks that now wear suits. This may only be in the front office, sales and private client areas of the bank.

Hmm... Yea, I'd say it's pretty standard to wear a suit when you're in a business where you have to meet clients who are going to be spending big bucks for your services. That's certainly true of the law firms and banking business with which I am familiar. If your everyday job involves face-to-face interactions with clients of this kind, then I'd guess that suite are a requirement (not that I think this has ever changed). But it's also the case that plenty of people in law and banking only dress up for client meetings and dress "business casual" (or lower) otherwise.

Finish this sentence.

New Yorkers would never be seen wearing....

or,

A surefire way to spot a tourist is...

Dude, I wouldn't touch that one for all the sausage in Wisconsin.

The reality, gentlemen, is that, even if you're out with your wife, your love life will be improved by expending the time and effort to look your best.

It goes without saying that only a super-stud can get the same effect with a simple pair of fish pants.

[Fat Guy]

Dude, I don't want to hurt your feelings, but I dress that way around you because I don't want to have sex with you.

[Pan]

I'm not familiar with that terminology.

Oh. To me, "necktie"=bowtie; "long tie" is the kind that goes straight down, starting at the neck. Maybe that's an idiosyncratic usage of mine.

[Bux]

I'm not familiar with that terminology.

Oh. To me, "necktie"=bowtie; "long tie" is the kind that goes straight down, starting at the neck. Maybe that's an idiosyncratic usage of mine.

Very idiosyncratic. A bow is but a less common form of necktie.

[coughy]

We had never been to Sardi's and a few weeks ago we were seeing Golda's Balcony which is right next door. You could tell the "out-of-towners" because they were the ones dressed up. In NYC a women with a pair of black slacks and a nice shirt can go anywhere. Enjoy your trip!

[egator]

Finish this sentence.

New Yorkers would never be seen wearing....

....wool knit sweaters with pictures of little kittens on the front

OK. But what about wool knit sweaters with (choose holiday) pumpkins, turkey or snowmen on them. Is there anywhere you can go to escape those?

[Felonius]

I'd be interested to know what fields have seen the comeback of the "suit/uniform."

law and banking, according to one poster.

Now that FG and Sam are completely off-topic, I suppose I might as well indulge myself....

Around 1999-2000, all the big investment banks on Wall Street switched from suits/ties to a minimum requirement of "business casual". This relaxed policy only applied to home office settings where bankers weren't in front of clients. Every one I know still dressed up in suits/ties when meeting with clients. This policy was largely a knee-jerk response to the mass exodus of talent to dot-com and tech companies with more laid back cultures. The HR honchos at the likes of Merrill and Morgan figured they'd attract and retain more talent if they let employees loosen their ties a bit. Plus, once one big firm did it, the others followed like lemmings (as they always do). While it certainly made the 100 hour work weeks more comfortable, the retention idea was silly. The only thing that keeps on people on Wall St. is the almighty dollar, and bankers would go to work in tailcoats or Elmo costumes if a firm paid more than its competitors.

Many law firms also followed this trend, one notable exception being Cravath where suits/ties have always be de rigeur. Some banks have recently nixed their "business casual" experiments, with Lehman Brothers leading the trend if I remember correctly. This retrenchment from business casual not surprisingly coincided with the post 9/11 period of massive layoffs on Wall Street, when retention of talent was no longer an issue in the industry.

[Fat Guy]

I should note that at Cravath one was always allowed to remove one's tie after, oh, about 2am. And you weren't expected to put it back on until around 8am.

[Behemoth]

While it certainly made the 100 hour work weeks more comfortable, the retention idea was silly. The only thing that keeps on people on Wall St. is the almighty dollar,

Though longer vacations would have gone a long way towards keeping this one

Okay, not NY, but last year when I came back to visit Philadelphia from my new home in the Midwest (aka my culinary hell.) When I got off the plane it took me a second to figure out why everyone looked so different. Then it hit me -- no holiday sweaters. Yeesh.

Topic? What topic? Oh yeah:

If I were going to a nice place in NY, I would wear my standard men's-cut pants and fitted top, walking-capable heels or very stylish flats.

Here's the way to spot (at least the female) city dwellers world over: they maintain a collection of great-looking comfortable shoes.

[bloviatrix]

Regarding Per Se, I was just told by the reservation-taker that jackets are required for men. And t-shirts, jeans, shorts and sneakers are not allowed.

[bushey]

they maintain a collection of great-looking comfortable shoes

An oxymoron.

On the other hand if you know a source for truly great looking comfortable shoes, please share...........................

[tommy]

On the other hand if you know a source for truly great looking comfortable shoes, please share...........................

Isabella Fiore, Manolos, Prada, Jimmy Choo, Nine West, Enzo.

or so i'm told.

[Behemoth]

On the other hand if you know a source for truly great looking comfortable shoes, please share...........................

Isabella Fiore, Manolos, Prada, Jimmy Choo, Nine West, Enzo.

or so i'm told.

Nine West, huh?

Okay, most of the time I live in lime-green adidas sneaks. For slightly more dressed up casual, I have a few pairs of Costume National boots. When I worked in a brokerage firm my boss called them moon boots. But then he wore those man-pumps. You know, with the tassels. You know what I'm talking about, don't pretend you don't. A couple of Kenneth Cole non-stilleto heels when I need to look a little taller and that pretty much takes care of things. I try to keep my birkenstock wearing to home use, but now that I am in the midwest, they look so much better than white keds I almost feel tempted to wear them around. Actually, nothing says "street cred" in a math department like showing up in birkenstocks. And black socks, natch So I have my department birks, when I need to impress

But I'd rather talk about restaurants.

[phaelon56]

On the other hand if you know a source for truly great looking comfortable shoes, please share...........................

If you live in lime green Adidas sneaks then you may find the shoes at Shoe Mania to be just the ticket. They've got an amazing assortment of comfortable shoes at good prices (for men - I know they sell women's shoes also). Their location on Union Square South (corner of Broadway and 14th Street) is almost within spitting distance of some restaurants I know and like (e.g. Steak Frites) and at least one I'd like to try on my next visit (Casa Mono). Or you could just step to the corner and get a halal kebab that's burnt to shit but tastes great with hot sauce

[tommy]

Nine West, huh?

yeah, they do a decent job on the low-end. and they make very NYC restaurant-appropriate shoes from what i've seen.

[Behemoth]

Nine West, huh?

yeah, they do a decent job on the low-end. and they make very NYC restaurant-appropriate shoes from what i've seen.

Actually, I was just teasing. But there was this really old episode of Will and Grace where Karen is complaining about Will's basement-level law office. You can see all these shoes walking by (street-level window) and Karen looks towards the window, shakes her head and says "nine west! oh, honey...". That's all I can think of now whenever I hear the name.

But yes, they do make nice shoes. And considerably more affordable than Blahnik, Choo and Prada.

[Amuse Bouche]

On the professional dress discussion, Jones Day, being notoriously behind the times on everything, never switched over from business dress either. Cravath doesn't have casual summers though, and Jones Day does. My other half is an agent, and they make at least the flunkies in the agency wear suit and tie every day. As he's risen through the ranks, he has been able to take more liberties with his dress

[slkinsey]

Okay... we've had some fun topic drift. Let's reel this one in and get back to NYC-compatible restaurant attire.

[Suzanne F]

Interesting start on this issue in today's Diner's Journal:

Nothing against the Neptune Room, which recently opened on the Upper West Side in the manner of a scallop, but one wonders about these neighborhood types, just out of the gym and damp, blithely stopping by a restaurant for $22 branzino and a bottle of tokai.

[slkinsey]

What follows is even more fun:

Ninety percent of the customers are in sport coats or sun dresses, golf shirts, khakis, trading desk twin-sets, checked buttondowns, even a few ties. Because, you know, it's a restaurant. And you would think it more comfortable to eat in dry clothes.

But in this city, what is in the wallet always trumps where the wallet resides. No one says boo. The gym rats take their places at tables and the rest of us turn to our plates, eyebrows raised in disdain and amusement.

[tommy]

A bunch disdainful diners can't be a very pleasant sight or good for business.

[slkinsey]

Yes, but... it's disdain leavened with amusement.

[Suzanne F]

Hmmm Don't you generally find that baking powder, yeast, or eggs are better leaveners? How do you adapt the baking formula for amusement? Oh, I guess that's laughing gas.

Edited May 28, 2004 by Suzanne F (log)

[ingridsf]

On the other hand if you know a source for truly great looking comfortable shoes, please share...........................

Isabella Fiore, Manolos, Prada, Jimmy Choo, Nine West, Enzo.

or so i'm told.

Boy, "comfortable" is an elastic term. Or, elastic-waistbanded term, heh. Jimmy Choo? Are we talking heels? Let's talk comfort. Josef Siebels, baby. Leather needs zero breaking in, light as a feather, and the insoles have pressure points that give you a nice little massage up the backs of your legs. Men and women's. I wear them to work and out with nice pants. If one must wear a skirt or dress -- well, Fat Guy and SLKinsey, what did you wear with your kilts? The photos don't show your feet.

Ingrid

[James Kessler]

I live outside of New York City, (close by, in the greater metro area.) Do these suggestions apply equally outside of NYC proper? If you are a chef, or work front-of-the-house, do you feel disrespected by a customer who "pushes the limit" by underdressing as much as possible while staying within barely acceptable bounderies of dress-code? Do you treat customers differently if they are underdressed? I eat out often with a friend at restaurants that are seriously trying to put forth quality presentation. I feel that the customer should likewise present him or herself in a quality fashion out of respect for the chef and the other employees. Often my friend will be dressed far less neatly than myself as we eat at very nice restaurants. Sometimes I think we are treated differently than the other customers if my friend is severely underdressed. My friend might be just barely meeting the standards of the dress code for the place, but in reality, a pair of cut-off cargo shorts with strings hanging off, and a pair of beat-up sneakers is not really "casual neat" or "smart casual."

What are your thoughts on this? I know many of you work in restaurants either in the kitchen or front of the house. Tell me what are your thoughts?