Shallots vs. Onions

[Pan]

I'm personally talking about the shallots found in classic French cooking. I use "Thai shallot" or "Asian red onion" to refer to the red shallots used in Asian cookery.

I wouldn't do that because all the onions I saw in Malaysia on my last trip were red onions (but not so-called in Malay), and the scallions available in the markets were young red onions, too, but none of those are the same as shallots.

Shallots in France aren't red? What color are they?

By the way, I use "scallions" to refer to whatever anyone else calls "green onions" or "spring onions," period, regardless of whether there's a more or less small bulb at the bottom or not. Chives are a related but different thing. Until now, I had never heard of anyone using "shallot" as a synonym for "scallion."

[fifi]

Until now, I had never heard of anyone using "shallot" as a synonym for "scallion."

We were an ignorant lot in Texas in the 50's.

What shows up in the stores here as "spring onions" are really small whitish onions with the tops still attached, not dried like regular onions. I think this is a Mexican thing.

Interestingly, this link shows what we call a green onion as a spring onion in Asian cookery. Also interestingly, a lot of the google hits are calling what we are calling green onions, spring onions.

These are closer to what we see in the market here labeled spring onions but ours seem to always have a little bit bigger bulb.

This is all so confusing.

[FistFullaRoux]

So, as I understand it:

"Onion tops" and "scallions" are the green portion only of "spring onions" - which are about as big around as a magic marker and could be used whole (as in you could use all parts except for the extreme root end) if you wanted to. Only the hollow green part above ground is known as scallions or... erm.... thingee.

"onions" (your standard yellow, white and red varieties) are related to the above spring onions and derived products, but "spring onions" will not mature into "onions" if just left in the ground. Also, the green topside parts of "onions" are not to be confused with "Onion tops", scallions, spring onions or anything else.

Shallots? Dahell is a shallot?

Edited May 21, 2004 by FistFullaRoux (log)

[Pan]

The green parts to me are the scallion tops, and the white parts are sort of the lower half of the scallion.

[fiftydollars]

...When you want a lot of shallots at a cheap price, head to where Thais and Viet people shop for food. These members of the lily family are sold in plastic netting by the bag. They can be of slightly less quality (you get what you pay for) but the price is right...

I completely agree. I discovered that the markets featuring Asian ingredients sell shallots around here (SF Bay area) for about $.50-$1/pound instead of the $4/pound found elsewhere. Sometimes they only sell them in 3-4lb bags, but at those prices I don't care. I also find that in some markets they aren't quite as nice, but in some I think they look better and probably haven't been sitting around quite as long as in other markets. At Ranch 99 Market, they sell shallots at such a rapid rate that Andronico's couldn't possibly keep up and at some stores shallots don't sell very well and they can look pretty old.

The low price has made my use of shallots completely indiscriminate. I love raw shallot. I also love shallot soaked in lime juice, which is a variation on a common Mexican garnish using red onion. Shallot confit. French shallot soup. Substituting shallots for onions in chicken stock. My list of uses and abuses of shallots goes on and on...

Edited May 21, 2004 by fiftydollars (log)

[fifi]

For cripes sake, fiftydollars. Did you really have to mention shallot confit? Do you realize that you might precipitate the same madness as the onion confit thread?

(Hmmm... Now I am intrigued. Off to Hong Kong Market for a bag of shallots.)

[mudbug]

Here is a site with photographs as well as common name usages in different countries for Green Onions & Leeks as well as Dry Onions & Shallots.

In regards to shallots, it states....

They have a more delicate, garlicky flavor than other cooking onions, and are a common ingredient in French sauces.  Many people find them too hot to eat raw.

For all those who want to use shallots but don't want to pay shallot prices, I highly recommend growing Multiplier Onions which are incredibly similar to shallots (which are a multiplier onion).... all shallots are multiplier onions but not all multiplier onions are shallots.

I literally bought one pound for $1.00 which was probably 30-40 bulbs, planted them, and never had to buy shallots ever again. Besides, you can't get any better than garden fresh produce harvested minutes before you need to cook/eat it.

According to the National Gardening Bureau, multiplier onions can produce a larger yield per area than any other vegetable except staked tomatoes.

Multiplier onions exist in two horticultural forms: potato onions and shallots. Shallots may be distinguished from potato onions by the shape and division pattern of the bulbs.

From: Southern Exposure Seeds

[Mabelline]

I used to use the little bulblets of the ripe 'walking onion' tops, before they bend over and plant themselves, when I wanted intense onion taste. It works, too. They're usually about the size of an English pea, but Hell for stout!!

[mudbug]

Yes, Walking Onions aka Egyptian Onions aka Topset Onions are quite winter hardy to zone 3 so they make a great onion for year round harvest even when there's snow on the ground. The green part tastes just like (American) scallions.

[bleudauvergne]

Inspired by this wonderful thread, and just a consumer without a garden but a basket full of various onions, shallots and things just waiting to be sliced up, I went to the kitchen. I'm not going to pretend I even know what breed or this or that I'm dealing with here.

Shallot.

It was the first thing I tasted. Initial fire that made me think of onion with a sudden drop off to a hint of garlic, smooth, level overtones. Note the multiple lobes, the "clusters" that mudbug mentions above.

Onion.

Acidic sharp and much more pungent classically loved onion flavor that takes up more urgency as the oil hits the eyes. Crying. Single oily stinging lobe. Much more dynamic to the whole experience, beginning small and developing over a longer period of time.

Red onion.

Lobes. Like the shallot. Much milder than the onion but more pungent than the shallot. It was like a cross between the shallot and the onion.

The truth from my home kitchen: When I have a recipe that I value highly that calls for a shallot and I don't have one I use the same volume of onion with no major ill effects, although I do use a shallot if it's available, just because I want to follow the recipe. If Brigitte Vanel intended for me to use an onion, she would have said so. I do not add garlic with an onion substitution, though. When I have a recipe calling for one onion or less and I only have shallots (it's been known to happen) I just go ahead and substitute.

o I can't get the same effect as shallot with onion in a vinaigrette.

o I can't get the same effect with shallot for onions in an onion soup.

o Shallot doesn't dice like onion. Sometimes you want a certain visual effect.

[fifi]

I used to use the little bulblets of the ripe 'walking onion' tops, before they bend over and plant themselves, when I wanted intense onion taste. It works, too. They're usually about the size of an English pea, but Hell for stout!!

My mother used to grow these and called them Egyptians. From her garden they were quite a bit bigger than a typical "green onion" and boy were they strong. Stewed slowly in butter, they lost their bite and cooked down into wonderful sweetness. They would make a helluva confit.

[Mabelline]

Just think how many it'd take, fifi!

When you cut up one of those onions that are gasmask-strength, you can soak them, in a strainer, in icewater about 15-25 mins., then shake the water off, and they are considerably milder. I do strong whites that way for guacamole, when I don't want the onion running the show.

[fifi]

Do you mean the little bulblets? Mother used to cook the bottoms. They were about an inch in diameter. I don't recall that she ever cooked the little bulblets, or used in them in cooking for that matter. For some reason, I am finding that really odd. She would normally try just about anything at least once.

I learned the white onion trick some years ago from a cook in Mexico. Rinsing chopped white onion in cold water results in what I call a bright clean taste. It makes quite a difference in salsas and guacamole.

[Mabelline]

Yep, I learned from one of my tias in AZ.

OK, I even got me confused. The bulblets-just one or at most two, but in a meat dish like stew.

Then the bottoms themselves for a confit--which would take at least a SKILLION!!

[andiesenji]

Taming the wild onion, strong onions.

Actually a very old-fashioned method for taking the "bite" out of strong onions and the "wild" onions gathered in the spring in Kentucky and most of the other southern states, AKA "ramps", is to soak them in milk or buttermilk.

Our cook, when I was a child, was a Gullah woman from the Carolina lowcountry and every spring she and her "girls" went out hunting for the little pungent wild onions.

She always split them lengthwise and soaked them in milk for an hour or so to "break their spirit" (her words).

I have been using this method ever since I began cooking on my own. Usually I can tell with the first cut if an onion is going to be hot and strong. It works with garlic also.

[Mabelline]

andie, I am going to try that. Thanks. Do you rinse them-after the soak? I can take a little milk, but it would seem like you ought to for some dishes, like with clear brothes?

[andiesenji]

andie, I am going to try that. Thanks. Do you rinse them-after the soak? I can take a little milk, but it would seem like you ought to for some dishes, like with clear brothes?

Yes, rinse with water. I usually slice them before soaking in milk, then rinse and chop. However I have put chopped onions in milk when I realized after chopping that they were too strong.

[fifi]

Soaking in the milk makes some sense. Milk being an emulsion it can dissolve and "capture" a large range of larger molecules. When you cut an onion, contents from the interior of the split cells combine and form the sulfur compounds that cause the sharp taste and burning eyes. That is why just a rinse in cold water works, but milk would likely work better.

[Adam Balic]

Shallots in France aren't red? What color are they?

Depends on the variety, but you will see discriptions of the 'true shallot' being the grey variety. In reality they aren't really grey (colour refers to the outer surface of the individual scales), more pinky with a greenish overlay that may be considered as being grey. But there are a number of different types, incuding some quite reddish ones, although these tend to be larger and not as deep red/purple as the SE-asian types.

Speaking of which, last year I bought a jar of deep fried shallots from an Asian grocer, the image on the label clearly showed a red shallot type bulb with a flower stalk that looked identical to a 'Purple Tasseled Grape Hyacinth'*. So I grew some of the red shallots out of curiosity. Flowers were nothing like the illustration.

* A type of bulb that is found throughout the Med., can be eaten and is very tasty, but is also highly prized by bulb collectors. Anybody that has walk the paths at Cinque Terra (Liguria) in early summer would have passed many of these flowering.

Tasseled Grape Hyacinth

Edited May 24, 2004 by Adam Balic (log)

[Pan]

Thanks for the explanation and the link to that beautiful photo, Adam.

[Barb48]

Cooked shallots are milder than onions and have unique aromatics. When you caramelize them carefully, they're very rich and almost garlicky yet they don't overpower other ingredients.

You can substitute onions for shallots in almost any recipe and it will come out fine. But it won't come out the same.

It's like substituting chicken stock for veal stock in a dish. You can do it. The dish will retain its identity. And depending on the complexity of the dish and the quantities involved, the difference in the end may only be noticeable to a small percentage of tasters. But the difference will be there. And if the dish is very forward about that ingredient, the change will be very noticeable. Like, try making a bordelaise sauce with onions instead of shallots -- it will be quite different.

I just started using shallots around two months ago, and I do love the subtle difference it makes on almost all dishes, especially when you're reducing and deglazing a sauce. I think onions used in this way would not work as they would be overpowering. And I don't even have to go so far as carmalizing the shallots and they impart a layer of sweetness that is YUMMY in every dish I've made with them.

[fifi]

* A type of bulb that is found throughout the Med., can be eaten and is very tasty, but is also highly prized by bulb collectors. Anybody that has walk the paths at Cinque Terra (Liguria) in early summer would have passed many of these flowering.

Tasseled Grape Hyacinth

What do these taste like? Are they oniony?

[andiesenji]

Soaking in the milk makes some sense. Milk being an emulsion it can dissolve and "capture" a large range of larger molecules. When you cut an onion, contents from the interior of the split cells combine and form the sulfur compounds that cause the sharp taste and burning eyes. That is why just a rinse in cold water works, but milk would likely work better.

The chemical reaction is exactly correct. Just as milk is a "cure" for hot peppers because the casein in the milk grabs onto the capsaicin molecules and carries them away, the same effect takes place with the onion as the casein in milk combines with the sulfer compounds that give onions there pungency.