snails in vietnamese and french cuisine

[mongo_jones]

in my most recent post i mentioned a scene of snail eating in the vietnamese film "the vertical ray of the sun". clearly the preparation is not french--the snails are steamed and dipped into what looks like a thin ginger-scallion sauce/broth of some kind--but the little two-pronged cocktail forks they're eaten with seem very european.

quite apart from cutlery i'm wondering if it is a huge coincidence that snails form a part of the cuisine of both france and vietnam or whether one learned to eat snails from the other or to what degree each influenced the other's snail-eating ways.

thoughts?

[mikeycook]

Someone can perhaps give greater detail on this, but Vietnamese cuisine is heavily influenced by France, due in large part to their long-term occupation. The same can be said of Thailand and countries in other parts of the world where the French had strong influence, like Lebanon.

[bbq4meanytime]

Someone can perhaps give greater detail on this, but Vietnamese cuisine is heavily influenced by France, due in large part to their long-term occupation. The same can be said of Thailand and countries in other parts of the world where the French had strong influence, like Lebanon.

that's my understanding too. A common dish I see in Vietnamese restaurants around here is steak with a mushroom wine sauce, hardly a jungle dish

[mongo_jones]

yes, this is why i asked. but my question is specifically about snails.

also, was french cuisine not influenced by occupation of vietnam? was the traffic all one-way? seems unlikely to me.

[ecr]

I dunno -- it seems unlikely that Vietnamese "learned" to eat snails from the French. Snails are eaten in Vietnam's neighboring countries -- China, Cambodia, Lao, Thailand .... more likely that they were eating them long before the French arrived.

One common way to prepare snails in Vietnam (in Saigon, anyway) is minced with lemon grass, coriander, maybe some other herbs, stuffed back into the shell and speared with a longish outer stalk of lemon grass. The snails are steamed and you get the meat out by tugging on the lemon grass stalk. They are eaten with a large leafy veg (don't know the name --- the one with sawtooth-edged, heart-shaped leaves that are dark green with a tinge of red).

[Pan]

I used to dig for clams in rural Malaysia, but 3/4 of what came up were snails. I never liked them, but the Malays ate them. And I assure you, rural Malays were never highly French-influenced. I'm sure their cooking techniques for snails weren't, either.

[Jason Perlow]

Snails exist in Chinese food as well -- and it could be said the Chinese have had more influence on southeast Asia than France has ever had. Hell, I just had some this afternoon at a Shanghainese restaurant.

EDIT: I see ECR has the same thoughts as well.

[Pan]

From what I remember, the snails were absolutely killed in shrimp paste. I don't think that's a Chinese technique.

[Jason Perlow]

From what I remember, the snails were absolutely killed in shrimp paste. I don't think that's a Chinese technique.

Nah, typically, the Chinese saute them, usually in black bean sauce.

I think that Malaysian fermented shrimp paste would kill ANYTHING...

[mongo_jones]

so, to turn this around: when did the french start eating snails?

and did the two snail-eating practices cross-pollinate at all?

[Pan]

From what I remember, the snails were absolutely killed in shrimp paste. I don't think that's a Chinese technique.

Nah, typically, the Chinese saute them, usually in black bean sauce.

I think that Malaysian fermented shrimp paste would kill ANYTHING...

I wouldn't agree with that, Jason. Like most things (salt, most obviously and pertinently), what kills is the overuse of it. Belacan is a good ingredient, in moderation.

[Jason Perlow]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I like belacan. Especially in vegetable sautees, like Kangkung Belacan. Or with convolus or string beans. But the idea of burying something in belacan? SHUDDER!

[Pan]

You got it, Jason. Cooking in the village is much better nowadays!!!

[Andrea Nguyen]

I don't think there's a direct link between the French and Viet practices of eating snails. Yup, snails are eaten all over the world. From delicate tiny ones you'd patiently pick at to big whelks and conchs that you'd have to wrestle with. Along the California coast, for example, Kellet's whelk is pretty damn good eating. In Barcelona's markets, there's quite a range of snails and other molluscs for sale. The African giant snail (whose shell can be about 6-inches big) is a land snail that's apparently very nutritious.

The smallish seafood/cocktail forks seen in "The Vertical Ray of the Sun" are definitely a French influence. On the other hand with really small snails, you could use a toothpick or bamboo skewer to remove the meat from the shell. (In Hue last year, I observed that practice at a night market.) These forks are great to have around. My mother keeps sets of them for eating small bits of food that require stabbing. This may range from a bowl of cut fruit to pieces of cold cut. When I moved out of the house, she gifted me a set.

One common way to prepare snails in Vietnam (in Saigon, anyway) is minced with lemon grass, coriander, maybe some other herbs, stuffed back into the shell and speared with a longish outer stalk of lemon grass. The snails are steamed and you get the meat out by tugging on the lemon grass stalk. They are eaten with a large leafy veg (don't know the name --- the one with sawtooth-edged, heart-shaped leaves that are dark green with a tinge of red).

This is actually a northern Vietnamese specialty called "oc nhoi" (stuff snails -- a terrible, unsexy name for such a magnificent dish!). Traditionally ginger leaves were used instead of lemongrass leaves to form a harness of sorts to handily remove the stuffing from the shell. When I ate oc nhoi in Saigon last year, the ginger leaves were really flavorless, which is perhaps why people now use lemongrass instead. The sauce is typically a ginger-nuoc mam dipping sauce. The snails used, ironically, are very similar in size and looks to what we in the U.S. would identify as the escargot shells that come in plastic tubes. In Vietnam, these snails (oc buu) are harvested from rice paddies, I believe. Oc nhoi is one of my favorite Viet dishes! The herbs are a new addition to the dish.

If any of you would like more information on esoteric eating, check out Calvin W. Schwabe's Unmentionable Cuisine (University of Virginia Press, 1979).

Andrea

[mongo_jones]

thank you andrea--very informative indeed. i hadn't realized just how globally prevalent snail eating was. so is it just implements that cross-pollinated when two snail-eating cultures collided?

[bong]

i hadn't realized just how globally prevalent snail eating was.

People in Bengal (Bangladesh & Eastern part of India) also eat snails. (snails are called "geri" (with a nasal "g" ) or "shaamook" in Bengali).

I won't be surprised at all if folks from other parts of India also do the same.

[mongo_jones]

well, slap me across the face with a scrumptious six inch snail! i had no idea. is this specific to parts of bengal bong? a west bengali or east bengali thing? next you'll be telling me bengalis eat frogs too.

[bong]

is this specific to parts of bengal bong? a west bengali or east bengali thing?

City-dwelling middle class Bengalis are not likely to eat snails. It's mostly prevalent in the Rural areas. For instance, my brother-in-law's sister's (!) family (from Midnapore) -- they eat snails.

I have no idea if this habit is more prevalent in certain specific areas of Bengal or not.

next you'll be telling me bengalis eat frogs too.

You'd be surprised ...