Hugo's, Ciudad, Fonda San Miguel, etc.

[theabroma]

Sharon, there's a place here that calls its cabeza (steamed overnight, I believe) barbacoa. Is that widespread at all?

Sometimes you will see it here denominated as 'barbacoa de res', and less frequently 'barbacoa de cabeza'. I seem to remember that the 'de cabeza' term was used more in the Rio Grande Valley, and on the East Side of San Antonio (ie: in the barrio, in general). I have been told that the term 'de cabeza' provided a little more information than most gringos wanted to have.

Well, maybe guys we should start a barbacoa thread (if so, I say we do it in Mexico and x-ref it to the Texas forum). Some issues to consider (just popped up for me):

1. Typically, it is the cow's head which is made into barbacoa - so in areas where the need for euphemism is nil, barbacoa de cabeza tells you right away which animal, and which part.

2. That's because heads are not the only thing "barbacoa-ed." (sorry!) However, mostly what is made into barbacoa is the head.

3. In rural Mexico you will find barbacoa de borrego (mutton) or cerdo (pig). I have never seen b. de chivo (goat). When I say "... you will find ..." I am referring to markets, and to homes and communities in ranch areas where I have been invited. The latter definitely would not constitute a scientific sample.

4. What is meant by barbacoa? I have been given to understand that it refers to meat, usually beef, and typically the head, which is cooked in a stone lined pit, over coals, surrounded by pencas (leaves) de maguey, covered with wood or metal, and buried under dirt for 12 or so hours. That is a ranch barbeque. The meat is roasted, but the fact that it is in an air tight chamber means that there will be a certain amount of water retention, and therefore, steam. So it steam-roasts. Usually the meat is set on a pan in the pit - to steady it, but also to catch its drippings. The drippings are served as consomme on the side.

Obviously, in larger towns and cities, these pits are not so easy to come by, so the oven becomes the focal point of making barbacoa. Cows heads, while easy to come by in Mx cities, are difficult to fit whole into the typical Mx oven. This may, in part, explain the switch to briskety-like cuts done low and slow in an oven.

5. Now it gets a bit jiggy if you throw in the Yucatan, Campeche, Tabasco area: pibil, or Mayan 'pit' cooking. There the protein of choice is pig, preferably a whole baby, which will have been lovingly massaged with a red recado (spice and herb paste diluted with the juice of sour, or Seville, oranges, and allowed to sit for a while), then wrapped in fresh banana leaves, and then placed in the traditional barbeque pit in the ground, called a 'pib' in the Mayan tongues, covered, buried, etc., etc. Chicken is also preared this way, but it is ... at least in my experience ... rare to find beef so done. The focus is on the whole piglet, and that failing, something like the pork shoulder, or Boston butt. I do not have the impression that the pig's head is specially cooked, as is the cow's.

That may not be much of an answer ... but I think that this requires some discussion. Oh, by the way (and you guys know this already, but for those who may be confused: THOU SHALT NOT TOUCH BARBACOA WITH FLOUR TORTILLAS! IT SIMPLY IS NOT DONE!! Bad things will happen if you do.

If you have ever had out of the pit on Sunday morning barbacoa de cabeza de res, freshly pulled, and served with fresh corn tortillas and a sharp singing, smoky salsa, you will know the oven-cooked variety, no matter how well prepared, in an instant.

Theabroma

[theabroma]

Scott, Nick, Devotees of lo mexicano ...

What WOULD you like to see in a white tablecloth Mx restaurant? Hacienda Los Morales or Fonda del Refugio? Isadora's or Izote? Please comment at great length. What would your ideal white-T Mx have on the menu? What would be missing?

I mean, I don't have any problem seeing sopes, panuchos, garnachas, etc. on a white table cloth as an app, and paying for them (presuming plastic is in shape!). A favorite place of mine in Puebla is the dining room in the Hotel Royalty. It is white-T, and it reminds me a little of FSM in that it has some great things, and the rest are good to very good, but over all it is not whoohoo!. But there is a rabbit dish that is killer, and in season (Oct through Dec) they serve Mole de cadera or Guaxmole - spine and hip of sheep or goats in a red chile sauce. It is rather simple in its ingredients, and consequently quite treacherous in its preparation - it must be just right, or else it's totally unremarkable.

Still I like Royalty much better than the smaller, chic-er Meson de la Sacristia - which has all of the trappings, and is beautiful, but has no soul.

What makes it white-T? Tableware from Talavera Uriarte? Cutlery from Los Castillo? The wealthy in Mx have typically affected European food styles - pushing the ruddy indigenous complexion off the center of the plate.

You know, Basque food has evolved into a fine cuisine in the last several years. But lord knows the Basque country never was in a position to develop a court cuisine like Barcelona or Madrid, or Paris, or Istanbul, etc. But now you find Juan Mari Arzak's restaurant Tezka in Mx City. It is Basque & Mexican. Maybe that is something to look hard at as a point of departure towards Mexican as a white tablecloth cuisine.

Theabroma

[ExtraMSG]

I don't have an ideal that something needs to live up to, but I'd like a place that does for Mexican what a Trotter's, Trio, or Chez Panisse has done for French/New American. I haven't gone to enough upscale places in Mexico to know what's there. Girasoles and Xitomates are really the only two. Maybe a couple others that somewhat attempted it, like hotel restaurants. But these two seemed to do it at least mostly right. (I liked Xitomates in PV better.)

I think in the US, both Cafe Azul and Topolobampo came pretty close, the former being more towards Chez Panisse and the latter being more towards Trotter's. I think you'd need to establish either of these more accessible ways of doing upscale Mexican before trying a Trio style Mexican on people.

In the Chez Panisse vein, I'd like to see very regionally authentic dishes prepared with ultra-fresh, high quality, seasonal ingredients. I'd love to see someone be able to do what Chez Panisse does with a different fixed menu every day, but I don't know that that would be as useful with Mexican where you can use a lot of dried ingredients. I'd like to see someone using pre-hispanic ingredients, like venison and duck, that are also more upscale. (I also think these meats hold up to Mexican sauces a lot better than chicken or commercial turkey.) Along with that, maybe use a lot of heirloom and rare ingredients, searching out varieties of tomatillos, tomatoes, chiles, etc. Other than that, I expect the flavor, balance, and intensity of dishes to be near perfect.

In the Trotter's vein, I'd like to see a place that intelligently and creatively fuses Mexican flavors, ingredients, and methods with non-traditional, flavors, ingredients, and methods. eg, I could imagine foie gras served with a pineapple gelee, a manchamanteles, and crispy fried tortillas. How about Wagyu pibil panuchos, or guacamole with caviar, or pork belly carnitas, or roasted chile terrines. I'd also expect impressive desserts using tropical and Mexican ingredients.

I think Cafe Azul needed to be a little more adventurous and improve a few of its dishes and its pastries. I think Topolo needs to improve its consistency (and service) although neither put you in a setting equal to Chez Panisse or Trotter's.

Edited June 5, 2004 by ExtraMSG (log)

[Scott -- DFW]

Theabroma,

Thanks for even more barbacoa data! A couple of additional observations. 1) The cabeza de cabrito I had was in the home of some immigrants from Guanajuato, who said it was a typical dish in their hometown. It was braised/steamed, of course. Might that be called by some other name? 2) I've seen pig heads sold at Fiesta. If people aren't using them for barbacoa, do you know what they are using them for?

Do you think it would be possible for us to arrange for a true barbacoa event here in Dallas? Granted, restaurants don't do it. But there's probably an abuela out there with the expertise who would be willing to put a pit and some cow heads to good use, for a few bucks. If it could be lined up, count me in.

As for what I'd like to see in an upscale Mexican restaurant, my thoughts are pretty close to ExtraMSG's. I'm not so concerned about the cuisine style (e.g., one region, multi-region, fusion, etc.) as I am the overall quality, consistency, and care--in ingredient selection, presentation, flavor, and service. I want four-to-five star Mexican, instead of the three star stuff that we usually have to settle for as the "high end."

BTW, I'm going to try to get the details on arranging a meal at Lanny's Alta Cocina Mexicana in Fort Worth. If anyone would be interested in coming along (at an agreeable date and time), let me know.

Scott

[ExtraMSG]

Scott, you could always try to find a date I could come down, and then count me in.

[BigboyDan]

High-end mexican restaurants are a thing of the long-ago past. I went to a restaurant in Guadalajara in the early seventies (sinced closed) that was similar to that which many of the posters on this thread are searching. It was something out of the huge supper clubs that one sees in the movies from the thirties: a huge room with a band, cut glass chandeliers, two waiters per table, cigars in the mouths of Dons, silk dresses and pearls on the Donas. They ate French cuisine.

It's just all too expensive. And to what end? Mexican food is peasant food; to want to make it anything else is folly.

Fonda San Miguel offerings have always been mediocre to decent - nothing more, we in Austin have always identified it that way.

[ExtraMSG]

All food was peasant food once. Cuisines are not static things. They develop and change. There's nothing inherent to Mexican food that would keep it from being upscale anymore than French.

At one level, it's just a matter of perception. There's no reason why a tamale should be given less prestige than a souffle. There's no reason why a tortilla should be regarded as less than a crepe. There's no reason why a pico de gallo should be passed over for a tapenade.

Cocina mexicana has a great tradition of upscale ingredients: fish, shellfish, mushrooms, duck, venison, and so on. Plus, they have uniquely indigenous ingredients, such as corn, tomatoes, squash, and chiles.

What else? Is Mexican food elaborate? Seen a list of mole ingredients? Is it elegant? It certainly can be. Quality ingredients? See above. Creative? Impeccable technique? An impressive reinterpretation through craft of the history of consumption? All depends on the chef.

The first step is admitting that you have a problem, Mexican food doesn't. Perceive Mexican food as haute and it is.

I think if you look at several of the menus out there for upscale Mexican places, you see the promise of the cuisine. That it doesn't always live up to the menu has less to do with the cuisine and more to do with the chef.

[BigboyDan]

"Perceive Mexican food as haute and it is."

[spoonbread]

I am a chef that was trained in Southwestern Cuisine. I was trained by Jay McCarthy at Cascabel in San Antonio, and have staged with Rick Bayless at Tompolobampo and have eaten at the Frontera grill, as well as Steve Pyles and several other high profile Southwestern chefs. I have studied Mexican Cuisine, as well as many aspects of Southwestern C. and I believe it has a rightful place with other cuisines. When I was the chef of Ella's in Austin, we served high end Southwestern. Some dishes I created were...

Foie Gras-Huitlecoche Tamales w/ cilantro crema and Guajillo gravy

Batterbury-Salmon tamals with Ancho mole and poblano cilantro foam

Lobster gorditas with chile-lime aioli and yellow watermelon pico

Confit of duck enchiladas with guava-sour cream sauce.

These dishes weren't cheap, nor easy to make. We won quite a few awards doing Mexican themed dishes, and I'm quite proud that Mexican Cuisine has a rightful place on the palates of Americans. As far a peasant foods, there are alot of "peasant" foods that are very high end now. Lobsters were so abundant, they were used as fishing bait at one time, when the first American settlers arrived, and there are foods that were thought of as "peasant" foods that are served on a high end spectrum.

It is all about perception, but Mexican Cuisine has earned it's respectful spot, IMO.

Now, if I can just convince people that puffy tacos are the next big thing....

[BigboyDan]

Guajillo gravy: contradicition of terms, and cultures.

I too have cooked "Southwest cuisine" in Austin and Santa Fe (you know where). What we are talking about is not French techniques or high quality ingredients - we're talking Meskin food: tacos and tamales. Half the fun of Cochinita Pibil is cooking it out back in a hole in the ground, or mole at abuelita's for Sunday dinner, or barbacoa in an E. 7th dive. ...

Like, I gotta' great laugh reading posts on the New York board where there was a discussion of which Zinfadel goes really well with Texas BBQ.

By the way, spoonbread, what type of cuisine are you cooking now?

[spoonbread]

Hey Bigboy,

Currently I am studying Fusion, in particular Australian Cuisine. They have a nice feel for Fusion.

I really enjoy Southwestern, all aspects, like "Cowboy" Cuisine, etc., Texas has alot of different food heritages to cull from, and if one is creative one can have alot of fun. The gig I have allows me to use all styles, so Southwestern is just another facet of cooking to me now.

What type of cuisine do you do now?

[BigboyDan]

French, at a two-star in Paris - until August 1. Then back to Austin for fall/winter private cheffing..

[joiei]

Scott, let us know about the dates for Lanny's. If I can, I will come down for that meal. Weekends work best for me, but I can try to finagle a week day if need be.

[theabroma]

I too have cooked "Southwest cuisine" in Austin and Santa Fe (you know where). What we are talking about is not French techniques or high quality ingredients - we're talking Meskin food: tacos and tamales.

Ah, yes. Meskin food. Wouldn't have eaten at Tezka in Mexico City, would you? The patron's got 3 big ones back in San Sebastian.

I am surprised that you are so shocked by chile gravy - it's roots are deep in the New Mexican dirt.

French breads and pastries - called, I believe, viennoiserie in French, came from the well-known French suburb, Vienna. And the French, like the Mexica, made the most of what they took into their hands - but had it not been for the French king's de Medici bride, how much longer would the French court have been eating off bread trenchers with their hands?

To know tacos, enchiladas, and tamales is, under certain circumstances, to indicate a familiarity with Mexican street foods. I assure you that there is, and has been 'white tablecloth' fare served in Mexico for some time now, whether or not it was actually set out on a white tablecloth. Perhaps a quick read of Sahagun's Florentine Codex will give you a rough idea of the refinement of the table at the Aztec court.

What was that wonderful quote, so often slipped into the mouth of Benjamin Disraeli as a riposte to a member of Parliament who had made a common slander of the Prime Minister's Jewish culture? "When your ancestors were running after wild boar in the forests of Silesia, mine were priests in the Temple of Solomon? But Temple of Huiztlipochtli would sound funny here, wouldn't it?

We could just recall the corn, the tomatoes, squashes, potatoes, chocolate, vanilla, etc. from the rest of the world's kitchens, or we could call many other cooking styles the spade that they are: Mexican fusion.

Theabroma