Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 1)

[lebowits]

I cut my last PDF slab today after 48 hours. It still has a "soft" texture but holds up much better than the last batch which came apart in my fingers.

So while I believe this has a "good' amount of pectin, it didn't cook long enough to reach the temp required.

I'll make another batch or 2 (maybe 3) once I get the puree I ordered.

[tan319]

I don't have a refractometer and I don't make PDF often either.

But when I make any kind of thick mix like a candy base, even a syrup for Italian meringue I keep the probe in warm water in between readings and wipe it down.

I discovered when taking temps on chocolate that was being tempered it helped to keep the probe "fresh" for accuracy.

Maybe all of you folks do that as a given, just thought I'd throw it in the ring.

P.S.: I also have a DVD of Albert Adria making various preparations ( including isomalt for sculpting) and he's big on using an infared thermometer.

[Kerry Beal]

I cut my last PDF slab today after 48 hours.  It still has a "soft" texture but holds up much better than the last batch which came apart in my fingers.

So while I believe this has a "good' amount of pectin, it didn't cook long enough to reach the temp required.

I'll make another batch or 2 (maybe 3) once I get the puree I ordered.

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What do you think of the flavour of the new PDF recipes vs the old ones?

[lebowits]

I cut my last PDF slab today after 48 hours.  It still has a "soft" texture but holds up much better than the last batch which came apart in my fingers.

So while I believe this has a "good' amount of pectin, it didn't cook long enough to reach the temp required.

I'll make another batch or 2 (maybe 3) once I get the puree I ordered.

←

What do you think of the flavour of the new PDF recipes vs the old ones?

←

Kerry -

I can't comment on the flavor of the old vs. new formula as I don't have a copy of the old. If someone can post the formula for the mango, I'll do a batch for comparison.

[Kerry Beal]

I cut my last PDF slab today after 48 hours.  It still has a "soft" texture but holds up much better than the last batch which came apart in my fingers.

So while I believe this has a "good' amount of pectin, it didn't cook long enough to reach the temp required.

I'll make another batch or 2 (maybe 3) once I get the puree I ordered.

←

What do you think of the flavour of the new PDF recipes vs the old ones?

←

Kerry -

I can't comment on the flavor of the old vs. new formula as I don't have a copy of the old. If someone can post the formula for the mango, I'll do a batch for comparison.

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Full batch - 500 grams apricot puree, 150 grams sugar plus 35 grams pectin, 1150 grams sugar, 200 grams glucose, 1000 grams mango puree, 30 grams tartaric acid solution.

[Desiderio]

Ok talking of refractoters, I have check eBay a bit but I am not sure those are ok for higher temp/brix?

0 to 32% shouldn't they go higher to work with sugar syrups etc. Just making sure which one do you guys suggest?

Thank you

[Kerry Beal]

Ok talking of refractoters, I have check eBay a bit but I am not sure those are ok for higher temp/brix?

0 to 32% shouldn't they go higher to work with sugar syrups etc. Just making sure which one do you guys suggest?

Thank you

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Here is a link to one on e-bay. It's the one for honey that you want.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Desiderio]

Thank you thank you Kerry!!

[cmflick]

Ok talking of refractoters, I have check eBay a bit but I am not sure those are ok for higher temp/brix?

0 to 32% shouldn't they go higher to work with sugar syrups etc. Just making sure which one do you guys suggest?

Thank you

←

Here is a link to one on e-bay. It's the one for honey that you want.

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When you get a refractometer, I would also get the reference block and oil. The one that I bought on ebay was way out of calibration when I received it. With the reference block and oil you can easily recalibrate it.

[Marmalade]

I've been attempting PDFs here at 9,000 feet for some months, adjusting cooking temps for the altitude. However, still have had no luck. Does anyone have experience doing PDFs at high altitude, and making any needed adjustments?

[Desiderio]

What kind of trouble do you have at high altitude?

I live in Colorado ( not nearly as high are you ) and I have to admit that I tryed to adjust some temperatures but then I went back to the regular since I didnt find that was helping. Now if you google high altitude candy making etc, they will tell you that you should lower 2 F/ 1C per 1000 ft of altitude, so that would make it like 18F/9C less than what you usually cook at sea level, umm I guess you could try.

Good luck

[tan319]

What kind of trouble do you have at high altitude?

I live in Colorado ( not nearly as high are you ) and I have to admit that I tryed to adjust some temperatures but then I went back to the regular since I didnt find that was helping. Now if you google high altitude candy making etc, they will tell you that you should lower 2 F/ 1C per 1000 ft of altitude, so that would make it like 18F/9C less than what you usually cook at sea level, umm I guess you could try.

Good luck

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Yes, I would google that table.

I posted it here somewhere in P&B probably 5 years ago when I noticed making a neutral caramel ( clear) that it was taking color wayyyy early.

That was at about 5500 FASL.

I've made PDF at about the same level and it turned out fine though.

Maybe you need a new digi thermometer or check the calibration?

Good luck though, let us know!

[cakedecorator1968]

Boiron Fruit Pate Formulas Not Too Great From Website...

I'd like to mention that for a while I was making fruit pate on a regular basis.

I followed the Boiron Table from their website and tried almost every one of their flavours and recipes. I checked the final brix using a quality digital refractometer.

Some of the recipes set okay but some of them are too soft! The results were consistent each time within the recipe. For Example: Kiwi set up firm every time and passionfruit was always too soft! Problems with blackcurrant too!

Most of the time I was able to reasonably rescue the soft set ones by reboiling and adding more pectin and acid.

I'd like to hear if others had simmilar problems.

[tammylc]

My adventures in PdF making...

So last night I set out to make a batch of blackberry for the supper club I'm hosting this weekend. Got to the end, and did what I (almost) always do - got so distracted by watching the temperature, that I forgot all about adding the acid until after I'd poured it in my frame.

Other times that I've done this, it's set up just fine anyway, so I'm not sure why last night I decided it would be a good idea to scrape it off the silpat and back into the pot, add the acid, and repour, but I did. Needless to say, it had already started to set before I got it into the frames, so it didn't pour well and was all lumpy. Taste was great, though, so I cut it up and brought it into work today.

But I figured I'd better make a second batch for the dinner. This time I put my bowl containing the acid right in the middle of my frame - that way it was impossible for me to forget to add it. Worked like a charm.

Thought I'd post about it just in can anyone else has the same forgetful streak!

[Serj]

I did that one time. I made a huge batch, it looked and smelled awesome- went to clean up and found my citric acid solution sitting on the side of the stove. I scraped off and heated the pate de fruit back up ( to maybe 90C) and it seemed to reverse the pectin a little, it loosened up then I added the acid and recasted it. It came out pretty good. I guess the yellow pectin isn't reversible but doesnt fully activate/seal until the acid is added..

Oops. Making mistakes is the best way to learn right?

[lebowits]

I did that one time. I made a huge batch, it looked and smelled awesome-  went to clean up and found my citric acid solution sitting on the side of the stove. I scraped off and heated the pate de fruit back up ( to maybe 90C) and it seemed to reverse the pectin a little, it loosened up then I added the acid and recasted it. It came out pretty good. I guess the yellow pectin isn't reversible but doesnt fully activate/seal until the acid is added..

Oops. Making mistakes is the best way to learn right?

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Interesting little thread regarding the acid. I've noticed in comparing the Boiron formulas (new vs. old) that the old sheets explicitly speak of making the acid solution but the new one only specifies the amount to add with no mention of diluting it into water.

[sote23]

Has anyone worked with a low sugar pectin. Any recommondations? I want to try a pate de fruit with less sugar.

Luis

[Marmalade]

I´ve done about ten batches of PDFs without success here at 9,000 feet in Quito, Ecuador. I am beginning to suspect it´s my sugar-Ecuadorian sugar is very impure and does not always dissolve well. I spent hours making brittles with Ecuadorian sugar before I finally figured out the impurities were causing it to crystallize and not set up right.

We did a batch of mango PDF and it came out perfect-but I didn´t make note of which kind of sugar we used. Colombian sugar is much purer. But there is none available right now! Once some appears in the market again, we´ll go back to the drawing board and see if that works.

If anyone has any chemistry insight into this, and you can help me figure out if my hypothesis is correct, I´d appreciate hearing from you. It´s the only idea I have left. The idea being, undissolved sugar or impure sugar is somehow affecting the PDFs from setting up right. They are always kind of lumpy when I pour them and just never set up firm, despite having cooked some of them to over 75 brix-as high as 78, and adding additional pectin to recipes.

[Marmalade]

Has anyone worked with a low sugar pectin. Any recommondations? I want to try a pate de fruit with less sugar.

Luis

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Luis:

I am not a chemist but you might want to try low-ester or amidated pectins, I quote from wikipedia:

With low-ester pectins and amidated pectins less sugar is needed, so that diet products can be made. Pectin can also be used to stabilize acidic protein drinks, such as drinking yogurt, and as a fat substitute in baked goods. Typical levels of pectin used as a food additive are between 0.5 – 1.0% - this is about the same amount of pectin as in fresh fruit.

Here's the link for the full text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectin

Hope this helps and let us know if you find the pectin, where you found it, and how the products turn out!

Edited June 12, 2009 by Marmalade (log)

[tammylc]

Has anyone worked with a low sugar pectin. Any recommondations? I want to try a pate de fruit with less sugar.

Luis

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The first time I ever made pdf was from Andrew Garrison Schotts book. Not knowing from pectin, I had no idea what the g-pectin he called for was, and ended up using Pomona's universal pectin, and actually got something that worked. I know the Pomonas can be used for low-sugar jellies, so you could start there. I only used the pectin part, and not the calcium solution that's supposed to be the second part, but strawberries have some calcium on their own.

Discussion about it here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...0entry1335761

[sote23]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will give it a shot and let you know what I find out.

Luis

[mostlylana]

I just got back from the Callebaut advanced and expert courses. The teacher was Derrick Tu Tan Pho. Great teacher. He gets into the 'whys' of everything.

We made 4 recipes of pates de fruits. It was my first exposure to making them. I'm not a fan - I find them too sweet. I asked everyone else in the class what they thought of them. Most people said they wouldn't want to eat much of them - certainly not as tantalizing as ganache. One fella said he would eat them every day of his life - loved them! And then there were a few like me who didn't care for them as they were too sweet.

Getting to what Luis was asking about making them less sweet - I asked the question and was told this was a formula that couldn't be played with. That makes sense as Brix is the ratio of dissolved sugar in water. Nonetheless, I've done some research on the topic and came up with an interesting site with some interesting information.

I just moved and am not ready to start playing in my chocolate room yet. I'm hoping someone else might experiment with this info! To get you interested, here's a quote: "In the end, now have a much cleaner, more vibrant facsimile of a pate de fruit. I'll let you do the math, but remember that the conventional version made with HM pectin (regular apple pectin) has a sugar concentration as high as 80%. Here, it's a fraction of that."

80%!!!!!! No wonder I found it too sweet...

Here's the website (there's pictures!): http://mlaiskonis.typepad.com/workbook/200...roficiency.html

[Jan Stoel]

I've made two pate de fruits recipes and had trouble with the setting of the gel. It was not that they didn't set, it was that they hardened almost immediately after adding (tartaric) acid.

The recipes (Fat Duck) call for yellow pectin, so I use this one 'Genu® Pectin Yellow Type D Slow Set-Z', which should be a slow setter. The problem is that I have a 2 to 3 second window to pour the stuff after I remove it from the heat, it sets extremely fast.

I cook the mix to 107C (don't have a Refractometer). Any ideas why this happens? The funny thing is the texture is good. It is set, but soft. So it is not that I end up with pate de fruits bricks, which could explain the fast setting.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Jan Stoel (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I've made two pate de fruits recipes and had trouble with the setting of the gel. It was not that they didn't set, it was that they hardened almost immediately after adding (tartaric) acid.

The recipes (Fat Duck) call for yellow pectin, so I use this one 'Genu® Pectin Yellow Type D Slow Set-Z', which should be a slow setter. The problem is that I have a 2 to 3 second window to pour the stuff after I remove it from the heat, it sets extremely fast.

I cook the mix to 107C (don't have a Refractometer). Any ideas why this happens? The funny thing is the texture is good. It is set, but soft. So it is not that I end up with pate de fruits bricks, which could explain the fast setting.

Wow - wonder how fast the quick set would harden. I wonder if it has the acid already in it. Might be worth trying a batch with no tartaric and see how long it takes to set up.

[Jan Stoel]

Pate de fruits with this type of pectin require sugar and acid to set or am I wrong? If you would leave the tartaric out, is what I read, it would not set.