Masa and Bar Masa

[AndrewG]

Would you mind going over what you actually ate?

I'll do the best I can from memory (and with my limited knowledge of Japanese ingredients). The order is approximate and its also possible that I'm missing a few things.

We started with a shot of a refreshingly tart liquid that contained a piece some kind of fish I believe. Next was toro tartare and caviar with toast triangles. After that we had soft shell crab and some kind of japanese vegetable tempura. Then a little salad that contained among other things some kind of little japenese flowers. After that I think was fois gras and some kind of fish shabu shabu. Unfortunately, I can't remember what the fish was but it wasn't lobster, which is what others have had with the fois gras. I'm pretty sure that we moved on to sushi next.

Maybe fluke first and three different pieces of mackerel (japanese mackerel, horse mackerel and one other). We also had a piece each of raw toro, uni, clam, scallop with sea salt, crayfish, blue fin tuna, grilled toro and shitake mushroom. After sushi, we had a toro maki roll (that had a lot of toro in it) and one final roll that I believe was japanese sour plum.

The meal ended with grapefruit granite. Aside from the sake that we ordered, we were served a green tea towards the end of the procession of sushi and then a black tea (or at least a darker tea) at the very end.

I have friends that have dined at Masa recently and the overwhelming consensus is that they left wanting more. Now, either you have a very tiny tummy, or Masa has started serving more food (thankfully)

I am thin, but I'm not normally known to have a tiny tummy so I'd be very curious to hear how your friends' meals compared.

Edited June 29, 2004 by AndrewG (log)

[suzilightning]

while perusing the journal of contemporary culture - eg People magazine - for 16 august there is an article on masa pp 113-115.

[oakapple]

The notoriously cryptic "She Loves NY" site has a report — if that's the word for it — on Masa. It says, "venue to be reinvented, poss. relocated in short order."

This would not be surprising, as recent reports have suggested that Masa seldom fills up. Perhaps either the mall venue or the uncompromising $300 tab is failing to attract enough business. Still, one wonders about the source.

Two other equally cryptic comments (not worth their own post):

café grey – picholine using kitchen until funds turn up for front room

ct seafood – chitown’s bankroll not yet able to support bow

Edited August 12, 2004 by oakapple (log)

[Todd36]

This week's issue of Time Out New York has a fairly long article on Masa. It seems they sent a reporter to dine there. While he really liked the sushi, it's clear he didn't like much else and did not like the service, the atmosphere or the attitude. He also noted that the place lacked customers. While I haven't eaten at Masa, I have been to the bar portion twice and was not impressed by the food they serve. I've heard more than one rumor that Masa may close soon. Any one else have any views? Anyone else eaten there?

[Michael Ruhlman]

Who wrote it and is an online copy available?

Just from the tone of your comments, it sounds like the usual phony baloney blowhard knowitall manhattan-journalist snark.

Masa is one of the extraordinary restaurants in the United States. But you either see it or your don't, there's no in between. Personally, it's my favorite restaurant experience in New York.

Who's rumoring that it will close. My source tells me it's the most profitable food and bev operation in the Time Warner Center.

[oakapple]

Who's rumoring that it will close. My source tells me it's the most profitable food and bev operation in the Time Warner Center.

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A similar rumor that Masa was in trouble appeared in She Loves New York. Incidentally, Jean-Georges Vongerichten has clamed that V Steakhouse is the most profitable food & bev operation in the mall, and frankly that is a lot more believable.

[GordonCooks]

Who's rumoring that it will close. My source tells me it's the most profitable food and bev operation in the Time Warner Center.

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A similar rumor that Masa was in trouble appeared in She Loves New York. Incidentally, Jean-Georges Vongerichten has clamed that V Steakhouse is the most profitable food & bev operation in the mall, and frankly that is a lot more believable.

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With the price of prime/Angus beef lately - that may be a stretch.

[Todd36]

Who wrote it and is an online copy available?

Who's rumoring that it will close. My source tells me it's the most profitable food and bev operation in the Time Warner Center.

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The reporter describes it as about 50% empty two nights in a row. Tough to keep going with that. I've heard similar comments from someone involved with a competing four star "Masa is not long for the world."

It's not a hack report. The reporter loved the sushi. He just wanted more, and he didn't find the other food inspiring.

[bpearis]

I don't remember their ever being a feature review like this Time Out NY before. The reviewer/reporter went there three times and left sort of flabergasted at the way things worked there. I wouldn't call it a vendetta piece, because they did like the food, but it did seem agenda-oriented in a "how does this exist?" kind of way.

[Luckylies]

ha! I ate there yesterday....yes, right in time for this topic.

it was...fine. I was dissapointed, yet not livid.

the cod stunk. the sauce was too thin and flavorless for the fishy cod. the sush/sahimi was fine if not tiny. really, by any standards, itsy bitsy. the rolls were lame-o too. the tempura lobster roll, while crisp and warm was booooring. lame lobsters, cuke, rice. the toro was heavenly, but a 10 a piece... the spicy tuna was large chunks of okay tuna with not enough spicy anything...bland. my glass of 12 buck sancerre was good. 170 for two for a lucnhy snack. and the room had no outside light (thats what I get for eating mall sushi) ... is jewel bako open for lunch yet?

...nice thing to say. the quality of the lame food, was qute high. I guess. go for the sush/sash..skip the rest...eat later...

[oakapple]

ha! I ate there yesterday....yes, right in time for this topic.

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From your description, it sounds like you ate at Bar Masa, not Masa.

[Luckylies]

ops sorry, was in fact bar masa. still lame though

[milla]

Even with the ultra high price points of Masa he would still have to be full most, if not all of the time to be " the most profitable operation in AOL-TW".

I haven't been but friends who have have not once reported a filled to capacity restaurant whether in the bar or Masa.

[Todd36]

ha! I ate there yesterday....yes, right in time for this topic.

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From your description, it sounds like you ate at Bar Masa, not Masa.

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I've eaten at Bar Masa twice. It's not very good.

[Jinmyo]

The review isn't on the website yet.

[Michael Ruhlman]

It's 350 just to start, add wine, you're looking at a $500 check average. Per cover. Average. Say Masa does between 10 and 25 covers a night. The numbers are not unreasonable.

There's an awful lot of whining going on here. I'm not sure I quite get it.

[SobaAddict70]

It's simple.

People are flabbergasted that they should have to pay ADNY prices for sushi/sashimi when they can get (to their minds) a much better experience at your local Japanese sushi place. I mean, it's just fish and rice, right?

That's perfectly all right. More for us.

Soba

[richl2214]

Good sushi and sashimi is not something that impresses me. Most "good" Japanese restaurants will have very high quality fish so that should be a given. It's what you do with fish and the other parts of the meal that makes a place that much better than the next. I haven't eaten at Masa but I doubt I'd drop that kind of dough on a meal that still seems like it's "on the fence." I'm going to throw my money at Keller before Masa when I hit the TWC. I'll stick with Blue Ribbon Sushi thank you.

[intraining]

very interesting to hear these comments....i thought masa was supposed to be worth the money?

i'll put my money on the sushi/sashimi boat for 2 at ave a

seriously though, does masa specialize in non raw food? masanyc.com under construction

i like nobu next door - will try to upgrade to nobu one day - but this years christmas dinner will be babbo. i digress

[Michael Ruhlman]

People are flabbergasted that they should have to pay ADNY prices for sushi/sashimi when they can get (to their minds) a much better experience at your local Japanese sushi place.  I mean, it's just fish and rice, right?

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It's the beauty of capitalism.

[jogoode]

This week's issue of Time Out New York has a fairly long article on Masa.  It seems they sent a reporter to dine there.  While he really liked the sushi, it's clear he didn't like much else and did not like the service, the atmosphere or the attitude.  He also noted that the place lacked customers.  While I haven't eaten at Masa, I have been to the bar portion twice and was not impressed by the food they serve.  I've heard more than one rumor that Masa may close soon.  Any one else have any views?  Anyone else eaten there?

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The author of the piece is Maile Carpenter, the food editor of Time Out New York. I thought the piece was great -- enjoyable, I mean. (I've never been to Masa, so I can't attest to its accuracy. But I don't think that people, media or not, are being untruthful when they give negative reviews.)

Who wrote it and is an online copy available?

Just from the tone of your comments, it sounds like the usual phony baloney blowhard knowitall manhattan-journalist snark.

Masa is one of the extraordinary restaurants in the United States.  But you either see it or your don't, there's no in between.  Personally, it's my favorite restaurant experience in New York.

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What qualifies you, Ruhlman, to say Masa's so great...Oh, right.

This is one of the few negative reviews of Masa I've seen in the media. Surprising given the typical response to a restaurant charging this much.

[robyn]

Who wrote it and is an online copy available?

Just from the tone of your comments, it sounds like the usual phony baloney blowhard knowitall manhattan-journalist snark.

Masa is one of the extraordinary restaurants in the United States.  But you either see it or your don't, there's no in between.  Personally, it's my favorite restaurant experience in New York.

Who's rumoring that it will close. My source tells me it's the most profitable food and bev operation in the Time Warner Center.

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Since you're a food professional - I have to ask you a rather delicate question. When you've eaten there - did you pay for it? Almost a thousand bucks for dinner for two is a bit much.

Even when the chef was at Ginza Sushi-Ko in Beverly Hills - our sushi/sashami/Japanese expert eating friends in Beverly Hills deemed it not worth the money. There was equally good available at half the price (I ate the "half-price" stuff - and it was terrific - but I'm not an expert in these things). And - of course - Masa is even more expensive than Ginza Sushi-Ko.

On my part - I'd probably rather use a thousand bucks to fly to Toyko to eat Japanese food than eat at Masa. Robyn

[milla]

It's simple.

People are flabbergasted that they should have to pay ADNY prices for sushi/sashimi when they can get (to their minds) a much better experience at your local Japanese sushi place.  I mean, it's just fish and rice, right?

That's perfectly all right.  More for us. 

Soba

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Those are higher than ADNY prices. That is Masa's price for walking in the door.

You will not find sushi "just as good" as Masa at your nieghborhood sushi bar. Unless your neighborhood sushi bar is Kurumazushi or Yasuda.

[Todd36]

Since you're a food professional - I have to ask you a rather delicate question.  When you've eaten there - did you pay for it?  Almost a thousand bucks for dinner for two is a bit much.

Even when the chef was at Ginza Sushi-Ko in Beverly Hills - our sushi/sashami/Japanese expert eating friends in Beverly Hills deemed it not worth the money.  There was equally good available at half the price (I ate the "half-price" stuff - and it was terrific - but I'm not an expert in these things).  And - of course - Masa is even more expensive than Ginza Sushi-Ko.

On my part - I'd probably rather use a thousand bucks to fly to Toyko to eat Japanese food than eat at Masa.  Robyn

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There is at least one other sushi place in NYC that has similar budget busting prices (but no $300 minimum) and that would be Kurma. Kurma is known to be able to turn out very good sushi, at prices to match, and Masa would have to beat Kurma on sushi to survive. My budget doesn't allow this right now, but I'd like to compare Masa to Kurma. In the cooked food department, Masa has to show its better than Sugiyama, which already has the $150 prix fix budget locked up.

I also have to wonder if Masa can really make much money on beverages. Having recently eaten at ADNY, where $2,000 bottles of wine are scattered across the list, I have to wonder what Masa can sell? Wine is not a typical sell for that kind of food, and sake rarely goes above $100 for a 720ML bottle. One of the reasons why the food at a place like Sugiyama or Kurma is so expensive is that they can't sell the expensive wine a place like ADNY or Jean Georges does. This isn't my own theory, I've been told by the owner of a very high end Japanese place that many customers drink $6 bottles of beer with $100 dinners, others like green tea, and more than you think drink house sake. Some do drink premium sake. Very few order wine. High end Japanese places have trouble making large amounts off of beverages.

[robyn]

Since you're a food professional - I have to ask you a rather delicate question.  When you've eaten there - did you pay for it?  Almost a thousand bucks for dinner for two is a bit much.

Even when the chef was at Ginza Sushi-Ko in Beverly Hills - our sushi/sashami/Japanese expert eating friends in Beverly Hills deemed it not worth the money.  There was equally good available at half the price (I ate the "half-price" stuff - and it was terrific - but I'm not an expert in these things).  And - of course - Masa is even more expensive than Ginza Sushi-Ko.

On my part - I'd probably rather use a thousand bucks to fly to Toyko to eat Japanese food than eat at Masa.  Robyn

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There is at least one other sushi place in NYC that has similar budget busting prices (but no $300 minimum) and that would be Kurma. Kurma is known to be able to turn out very good sushi, at prices to match, and Masa would have to beat Kurma on sushi to survive. My budget doesn't allow this right now, but I'd like to compare Masa to Kurma. In the cooked food department, Masa has to show its better than Sugiyama, which already has the $150 prix fix budget locked up.

I also have to wonder if Masa can really make much money on beverages. Having recently eaten at ADNY, where $2,000 bottles of wine are scattered across the list, I have to wonder what Masa can sell? Wine is not a typical sell for that kind of food, and sake rarely goes above $100 for a 720ML bottle. One of the reasons why the food at a place like Sugiyama or Kurma is so expensive is that they can't sell the expensive wine a place like ADNY or Jean Georges does. This isn't my own theory, I've been told by the owner of a very high end Japanese place that many customers drink $6 bottles of beer with $100 dinners, others like green tea, and more than you think drink house sake. Some do drink premium sake. Very few order wine. High end Japanese places have trouble making large amounts off of beverages.

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What you're saying is probably correct - but my husband and I tend to drink pretty much the same stuff no matter where we dine. A few cocktails - some middle of the road wine/champagne (perhaps $200 worth altogether). But dinner for 2 at ADNY was $750 - and $500 for 2 at Per Se. So we'd be talking about more than $1000 at Masa. I'm sure it's better than Tojo's in Vancouver - but not 4 times better. Robyn