AndrewG

Had dinner there during its first week. We came away impressed with the food - on par with Hearth. I had fish crudo to start and lamb as main (supposed to be lamb 4-ways but they forgot the sausage so it was only lamb 3-ways). My wife had a salad and the bass "saltimbocca." we shared the black olive fettuccine as a middle course and the gianduja bar and espresso sorbet for dessert. they served a couple of amuses that were pretty good too though i can't remember what they were. service still needed a little polishing but overall not bad for a first week. wine list was also still a work in progress but looks like it will be similar to Hearth's when its complete. only major complaint is the decor. its sooooooooo bland. will definitely go back, especially since we live nearby. andrew

This is more or less a question for FG, but I'd be curious what anyone else thinks. Reading this thread has made me recall something that I've wondered ever since I started lurking on egullet a few years ago. Its fair to say that egullet has one of the best collections of knowledgeable and experienced diners out there. Instead of simply critiquing (or complaining ) about the lists that Michelin, or Zagat, or the Times compile, why not have a Zagat style poll and come up with an egullet ranking? The methodology could be numerical (like Zagat) or stars or something else. Has this ever been considered? The list could even be continuously and automatically updated. Andrew

I happen to love Yasuda (in my mind the second best sushi place in NY) but my one meal at Masa absolutely blew away any experience I've had at Yasuda. To me, they are not in the same league and I don't think you need to be all that experienced to discern the difference. Andrew

I had a late dinner last nite and felt the need to post a quick note this morning. It was the 6th or 7th time I've been to Cafe Gray for dinner. Both the food and service continue to amaze me. I don't think there is any restaurant in NY serving better food right now. I also can't think of any restaurant where there is as big a discrepancy between the quality of food and the quality of service. I keep coming back for the food but it is a real shame they can't get their front of the house act together. Just an observation, but staff turnover seems high too. Andrew

I think it’s a very good question and I am curious to hear other opinions. I do believe that JG (the restaurant) has maintained its high standards but Jo Jo and Vong have slipped considerably (both food and service). Jo Jo, in my opinion, hasn't been the same since its renovation a few years ago. My last two meals at Vong were subpar to the point that I won't go back. I was never very impressed with Mercer Kitchen so I can't really say if it has deteriorated. My biggest disappointment has been with Nougatine. At one point, I was eating there at least one or two times a month. I stopped eating there frequently as it became very inconsistent. I have always felt (and this could be my complete imagination) that JG and Nougatine were considerably better when Jean George (the chef) was there. I have no idea how often he is there given all his new restaurants.

I'll do the best I can from memory (and with my limited knowledge of Japanese ingredients). The order is approximate and its also possible that I'm missing a few things. We started with a shot of a refreshingly tart liquid that contained a piece some kind of fish I believe. Next was toro tartare and caviar with toast triangles. After that we had soft shell crab and some kind of japanese vegetable tempura. Then a little salad that contained among other things some kind of little japenese flowers. After that I think was fois gras and some kind of fish shabu shabu. Unfortunately, I can't remember what the fish was but it wasn't lobster, which is what others have had with the fois gras. I'm pretty sure that we moved on to sushi next. Maybe fluke first and three different pieces of mackerel (japanese mackerel, horse mackerel and one other). We also had a piece each of raw toro, uni, clam, scallop with sea salt, crayfish, blue fin tuna, grilled toro and shitake mushroom. After sushi, we had a toro maki roll (that had a lot of toro in it) and one final roll that I believe was japanese sour plum. The meal ended with grapefruit granite. Aside from the sake that we ordered, we were served a green tea towards the end of the procession of sushi and then a black tea (or at least a darker tea) at the very end. I am thin, but I'm not normally known to have a tiny tummy so I'd be very curious to hear how your friends' meals compared.

I had a feeling that someone would question this. I really don't view my comments as conflicting emotions at all. The "lives up to the hype" and "blows away" the competion are clearly emotional responses to the food but my "not worth the money" comment is anything but emotional. Everything has its (comparative) value. As good as the experience was, it was not quite worth $850 to me. That doesn't mean its not worth $850 to others nor does it mean that it wouldn't be worth $850 to me if I were wealthier. Moreover, I said that for about $200 less it would have been worth it. On a percentage basis, thats less than 25%, not necessarily what I would call a considerable margin. I have no idea but I can tell you that all of the seats at the sushi bar were filled when we arrived (9:00 pm). I couldn't see the tables but I know at least some of the them if not all were occupied.

The food charge was $300 per person. There is no menu; they just start placing food in front of you. We had two carafes (for lack of a better term) of sake. I think one was $18 and one was around $50. They include an 18% service charge in the bill. Total bill, including tax and the service charge was about $850 for two people. I like Blue Ribbon a lot but I’d go as far as to say the difference between Masa and Blue Ribbon is probably about the same as the difference between Blue Ribbon and one of those all-you-can-eat sushi places for $9.99. I’m not an expert on sushi (or on anything else for that matter) so I can’t really speak specifically to the quality of the fish. What I can say is that I’ve never had toro or mackerel or horse mackerel or blue fin tuna or sea urchin (or frankly, anything else that we ate) anywhere near this level of mouth-watering goodness. I can still taste it!!! But, it is not just the quality of the fish that differentiates the sushi (and its not just sushi: we had among other things, fois gras, soft shell crab, grapefruit granite for dessert…) It’s also the quality of the grated wasabi, the grated yuzu, the rice, etc.

Had dinner at Masa Sat. nite. This is not a full review but some quick comments (with reference to a few previous posts). Yes, it was that good. Yes, it lives up to the hype. It was far and away the best sushi I have ever head (caveat: I have only had top notch sushi in NY, nowhere else). It blows away Sushi Yasuda or Kuruma Zushi. We were indeed served, as Hesser states, too much food (an immense amount of fantastic toro). I was actually praying towards the end of the meal that the food would stop coming. Was it worth the money? No. My girlfriend and I had the exact same reaction: if it were $200 less expensive, it would be worth it. But for that amount of money, we’d rather go to Per Se or ADNY and still have enough left over for a couple of lunches at Blue Ribbon Sushi. Having said that, if money were no object I’d never eat sushi again anywhere else in NY. Does Masa deserve 4 stars? This is a question that has been stuck in my mind since about halfway thru our dinner. I think it does (though this is based only on one meal at the sushi bar). I think Hesser got it exactly right when she said, “No matter how exquisite its food, a three-star restaurant does not have this power to transport you.” My experience at Masa was as “transporting” as any meal I have had in the U.S.

I love the baklava (and many other things) at Molyvos. 55th and 7th.

You have a good point and I would have a much easier time agreeing with you if we were comparing DB (which I also like very much) to Daniel. This begs the question: is avant garde a prerequisite for haute cuisine? Would you consider ADNY avant garde?

No. Cafe Boulud often does better haute cuisine than Daniel does haute cusine. Just without the other "4 -star" amenities.

Absolutely ambiance is part of the restaurant experience. Personally, whem I am dining, I prefer a warm room to a stark, cold room. I find JG's room stark (btw, I probably shouldn't have used the word "hate"- dislike is more accurate). But that doesn't mean that one is better than the other. JG has 4 star ambiance, though not my favorite kind of ambiance. Let's say, for the sake of argument that I hated fish (which I don't). Does that mean that I would rate Le Bernardin "fair" or "satisfactory?" Of course not. What the star ratings do (very well at the high end at least) is to try to bring some objectivity to the subjective reviews. this is why there is consistancy among different reviewers (again at least at the top end). To answer your direct question, before Ducasse came along, if forced to choose, I would have said that JG was my favorite restaurant in NY, precisely because for me, the food does overcome the ambiance. Andrew

The specific answer to your question is no, I haven't been to Daniel in a while. Daniel used to be my family's main celebratory restuarant (birthdays, etc.) Now we go most often to Ducasse. If, however, I was celebrating an event or wanted to really impress a client, and my choice was limited only to Daniel or Cafe Boulud, I would choose Daniel (because food is so important to me, I would never choose a place like Le Cirque). To me, Cafe Boulud is not the same type of restaurant as Daniel. And in my mind, this is probably the easiest way of seperating a 4 star from a 3 star. A 4 star is "special" or celebratory. First, I should have clarified: good day = 4 star and bad day = 3 star. So there isn't as big of a difference as it may have seemed when I wrote good day/bad day. Having said that, I would agree with you that 50% is far too low. I don't know if I can put a number on it, but if I were critic and visited a 4-star caliber restaurant 5 times, at least 4 of those had better be 4-star experiences. Andrew

First my list: ADNY Le Bernardin Bouley Daniel JG Per Se Now my comments: Ultimately, this thread is a mostly a debate about the whole star system. For better or for worse (I think for better) stars are supposed to incorporate more than just the tastiness of the food. There are other aspects of the food (quality, variety, creativity, appearance, etc.) as well as other aspects of the restaurant (service, ambiance, wine program, consistency, do you get an amouse bouche?, how many petit fours?, etc). And within each of these categories there are subcategories (i.e. is the service knowledgeable, is it attentive, is it professional, do they make mistakes, etc.) The list is almost endless, but in my mind, the definition of a four star restaurant is one that does ALL or almost all of these things at a very high level. Yes, the food is most important to me, but food is not the only thing that contributes to my dining experience. In my mind, all of the restaurants listed above (which with the addition of Per Se match the NY Times list) do enough things well enough to justify a four star rating. I am very fortunate to have been to all of these restaurants at least 6 or 8 times (except Per Se – 1 time). But, I have also had disappointing meals at all of them. My two disappointing meals at ADNY would still have rated 4 star, because it is that good of a restaurant. My disappointing meals at the rest would properly rate 3 star because on those given nights they didn’t do enough things well enough. There is a reason that the NY Times crticics visit a restaurant at least 4 or 5 times. Jean Georges – I hate the room but that’s a personal preference. It doesn’t take away from a 4 star rating. Daniel – My least favorite of the 4 stars. I think the food is better at Café Boulud, but Café Boulud can never be a 4 star restaurant. Bouley – My meals there have been inconsistent but not as inconsistent as some other people’s experiences. I can see knocking it down if the bad days outnumber the good. ADNY – 4 star without question. a category above the others (with maybe Per Se) The only other current restaurant that I could possibly see being 4 star is Atelier but I haven’t been there enough times to opine. Chanterelle, Danube and Le Cirque have the rooms for it but the level of food isn’t there. Blue Hill, Tasting Room, Aquavit are great restaurants but don’t come close to a 4 star dining experience. sorry for the long post. Andrew