Mexican and Diana Kennedy

[woodburner]

Inquisitive as to if the Parmilat, boxed tomatoes might work well as per the Jaymes method.

Never did see the tape, uhhmm you know.

woodburner

[Jaymes]

Inquisitive as to if the Parmilat, boxed tomatoes might work well as per the Jaymes method.

I'm sure they would. The better the quality of tomato, the better the final product. Again, just look on the label and be sure that the variety you have doesn't have anything else added, like basil or something. Got to be just tomatoes and salt.

[Jaymes]

Have you ever tried vinegar?  Either and/or.  It's a close call, but I think I prefer it.

I've tried several kinds of vinegar, but it doesn't have the same ... um ... freshness as the lime juice. It's just a bit brighter I think, and I especially like that contrast with the roasted chiles.

"brighter" -- yeah, I can understand that. You're probably right. When I first started, I always used a squeeze of Mexican lime, and a little lemon, and a dash of vinegar.

Gotten lazy through the years, I guess.

[woodburner]

I prefer key limes to the persian limes and until recently, all the stores ever offered were the Persians. Now the Key Limes (or Mexican) are everywhere and a much better deal.

Whoa,

Mexican limes are the same as Key limes??

Let us not be fanatical, or as I like to say moronical.

which is it?

woodburner

[Jaymes]

Jaymes, isn't this really a Mexican-American salsa?  Truly a home recreation of commercial salsa, not really anything you'd ever find in Mexico?  Seems more like something someone would make because they can't find chiles in the grocery store.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, just being clear...

Huh?

My friend that I got this from is Mexican. From Mexico. Her mother, and her mother's mother before her, made this in Mexico for years and presumably still do. The differences being that the grandmothers put up their own canned tomatoes. Or they made it from scratch using fresh tomatoes, and frying it as I mentioned previously, and then simmering. Obviously they didn't have blenders, or use garlic salt, or take other shortcuts, but in the Mexico of today, many people do. I have another friend that lives in Queretaro, and this is just how she makes it. She uses the canned tomatoes and garlic salt as well. Life does chug on, you know. Even there.

Do I think it's just a "home recreation of commercial salsa"? Not only do I NOT think that, I think that the very idea is ludicrous. I can't believe that you are actually suggesting that my Mexican friend, and her Mexican mother, and Mexican grandmother, sat around a su casa working on this recipe in an effort to "recreate" at home something that Pace thought up. I think it's just the opposite. I think that Mexicans have been making tomato-chile salsas since the first Mexican plucked the first tomato and the first chile from nearby plants. And that "commercial salsa" is a relatively recent attempt to "recreate" a traditional, much-loved home preparation.

And, "seems like something someone would make because they can't find chiles in the grocery store"? I don't get that. This recipe calls for fresh chiles. From the grocery store. Unless you're growing your own, of course.

In fact, it's just tomatoes, fresh chiles, garlic and salt -- with a little oil and acid. Prepared using modern shortcuts. I don't get how on earth you can say it's "not Mexican." One would think that you could offer your own suggestions without disparaging mine.

But whatever.

If it doesn't sound like something you'd like (and I guess that's what you're saying in your two "unenthusiastic" posts), there's an easy solution: Don't make it. If there's one thing I hate, it's arguments about "authenticity." I find them tedious and tiresome, often condescending, and, in the end, unresolvable. So if that's where you're going, you can soldier on without me.

Just to be clear.

Edited February 27, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[Jaymes]

Mexican limes are the same as Key limes??

Yep.

[woodburner]

Mexican limes are the same as Key limes??

Yep.

Do you wish to add anything else, before I put this recipe under fire?

It looks good, but every now and again, someone adds or deletes an important ingredient or procedure.

There will be pictures and tasters.

Thanks for all of your input.

woodburner

[Mabelline]

Jaymes, you brought up garlic salt, and I gotta say that every tia I ever knew in Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and Texas uses it. And I believe it's a big component of that real Mexican Taste that's way different from fresh, especially the colorado you wrote. Don't you?

Edited February 27, 2004 by Mabelline (log)

[Jaymes]

Jaymes, you brought up garlic salt, and I gotta say that every tia I ever knew in Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and Texas uses it. And I believe it's a big component of that real Mexican Taste that's way different from fresh, especially the colorado you wrote. Don't you?

Well, I don't know... I do know that when I visit friends in Mexico, it seems to be a much-used ingredient. Of course, just like us, most of them lead busy lives and appreciate shortcuts. My Queretaro friend makes her chilaquiles with Fritos in her microwave, and shops at the new Walmart (and is thrilled to have it). I don't think that makes her "not Mexican."

In my salsa, I prefer the flavor of the garlic salt to uncooked fresh garlic, which has a "raw" taste to me.

But as always, to each his own.

Edited February 28, 2004 by Jaymes (log)

[Mabelline]

Yep, me too, especially in a quick-cooked sauce like that.

I reckon in 20 years Walmart will govern the world.

Edited February 27, 2004 by Mabelline (log)

[rancho_gordo]

But as always, to each his own.

Amen to that.

In my travels and eating in Mexico, I find that every "rule" is broken somewhere and by someone. And that just the smallest adjustments make a similar dish brand new.

I tend to pan roast the chiles and garlic in my comal, the garlic obviously taking longer than the chiles. It doesn't taste so raw and almost adds a nutty or buttery flavor, like roasted garlic. I pan roast it with the skin on and peel it once it's cooled. I also prefer serranos to jalapeños, but that's just a preference. Sometimes I like to use those fat guero (sp) chiles instead.

I think a good strong, fast-heating comal is essential- for tortillas to chiles to toasting the oregano. Oh yeah, I add toasted oregano to a lot of my salsa.

But I think starting with Jaymes' basic recipe and adding baby steps and learining the nuances of each of the new additions is a clever idea. I can't imagine it will taste anything like "supermarket salsa" unless you use really crappy tomatoes or have access to lots of disgusting chemicals.

[Mabelline]

Gordo, I agree about the comal, and you probably won't find this as weird as some folks will, but the best one I've ever owned was a modified disk (from the farm equipment disk) and the edge was rung around with 1/4" rod. It was spectacular. They make a stellar tripas for cooking over a propane burner,too, with a three-legged stand under them.

[rancho_gordo]

Can you post a photo? That sounds wild!

[SobaAddict70]

Just because something is made with a modern convenience like garlic salt doesn't make it any less "authentic" in my eyes.

The fact that Jaymes' salsa is made using a blender instead of a mortar and pestle shouldn't be an issue. It sounds authentic to me, right down to the technique behind the recipe (i.e., roasting the jalapenos over an open flame in order to develop a specific flavor component for the salsa).

Soba

[Lisa J]

rancho_gordo

can you please explain what a "comal" is, or if possible provide a photo? never heard the term before and i am very curious. thanks

[Msk]

Please let me elaborate having made this last night. This recipe tastes nothing llike any commercially made salsa I have ever had. I love salsa and have tried dozens of brands in an effort to find a really good one that rivals the ones I come across in good mexican restaurants.

In my first attempt, I surpassed the quality of any canned/jarred salsa I have ever had. I have no doubt that with some experimentation this recipe will evolve into many great variations.

I used high quality San Marzano-style tomatoes, the kind I use to make homemade Italian sauce, so I guess the Parmalat ones would work great.

I even gave my wife the juice from the tomatoes as Jaymes suggested and my wife said it was the best she has had in a long while (she loves the stuff)!

Msk

[rancho_gordo]

can you please explain what a "comal" is, or if possible provide a photo?  never heard the term before and i am very curious.  thanks

Lookie here! I actually have a pic already! Mine is made of steel (I think, as it rusts if I'm not careful). A cast iron skillet is fine but it takes so long to heat up. I know in Mexico, they're sometimes ceramic.

I think it's basically a griddle with low or no sides.

Please don't judge my housekeeping. Please!

(Edited for typos. Twice!)

Edited February 27, 2004 by rancho_gordo (log)

[Mabelline]

Gordo, I no longer have that one,or the tripas, they were part of my previous life in Texas. But you are in farming country, and you know how they have to replace worn-out disks on equipment. Go to a farm, there's probably a pile of them laying around. You simply fill in the center hole with a patch of steel, 1/8, or 1/4, grind it down smooth, its kind of dish-shaped, so you may want to heat and flatten it. Then you just tack a piece of 1/4 round rod around it. You can bend the 1/4round by hand as long as the disc is secured, after your first weld. It works so good!! As soon as my SO and I get out to our farm, it shall be one of my first projects. Then I shall post, okay? Maybe the whole process, hmm. Think folks would like to see.?

[Jaymes]

In my first attempt, I surpassed the quality of any canned/jarred salsa I have ever had. I have no doubt that with some experimentation this recipe will evolve into many great variations.

Thanks. Sniff.

[Lisa J]

rancho_gordo - thanks for posting the photo!

and jaymes thanks for sharing the recipe. i am going to try it (following your exact steps). i am in france and good mexican food is hard to find, so i love the idea of making it myself. i used to live in california and i miss the supermercados... fortunately your recipe has ingredients that are easy to find.

lisa

edited for clarity

Edited February 27, 2004 by Lisa J (log)

[slbunge]

Jaymes, you brought up garlic salt, and I gotta say that every tia I ever knew in Arizona, New Mexico, Mexico, and Texas uses it. And I believe it's a big component of that real Mexican Taste that's way different from fresh, especially the colorado you wrote.

Wow. I am crazy about the very simple, cooked, tomato-based salsa at a mexican restaurant here in Milwaukee. There has always been something different about it, compared to my feeble attempts at home. I'm now imagining that it may be garlic salt. There isn't a flavor as forward as what you get with fresh garlic, but my recollection of the flavor of garlic salt sort of fits.

I'm inspired. Perhaps tomorrow I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

[Lyle]

Just to note the obvious, these tomato salsas freeze well. I found that out some time ago when I got my ratios all wrong, adjusted with more tomato...ended up with a half-gallon of the stuff.

I suppose I could have been philanthropic and gifted it so some neighbors.

Nah.

[Jaymes]

fortunately your recipe has ingredients that are easy to find.

Cool. What fresh chiles can you get in France? Jalapenos? Serranos?

[rancho_gordo]

As soon as my SO and I get out to our farm, it shall be one of my first projects. Then I shall post, okay? Maybe the whole process, hmm. Think folks would like to see.?

Oh, yes! I love clever homemade things like this!

[Jaymes]

In Mexico, you often can smell things roasting on large comals as you walk through the towns. Some of my favorite restaurants feature large ceramic ones, with various ingredients cooking in small piles arranged around on the disks. Frequently they are the entire focus of the restaurant, kind of like when you go to a pizza place and they make a big show of preparing the pizza in front of your eyes. You can stand right there and watch the stuff cooking on the comal. They're basically just flat, round grills/griddles, although sometimes you do see them gently concave.

Those large ceramic ones don't transport well, though, and I've tried to bring back some of the smaller ones with varying degrees of success.

You can, however, order smaller cast iron ones from mexgrocer.com.

Edited February 27, 2004 by Jaymes (log)