Sorbet: Tips, Techniques, Troubleshooting, and Recipes

[silverbrow]

thanks for those responses. I think on the basis of replies the best thing to do is make it as close to serving time as possible, but if this is 24 or 36 hrs before, it's not the end of the world. I will use the various tricks mentioned above if necessary.

[tan319]

Three pastry chefs who know what the Paco can do and what it can't are Sebastien Rouxel (of Per Se), Michael Laiskonis and Chris Broberg.  If you're in NY you might ask to do a "Paco" stage with them, I wouldn't be surprised if they've each had to develop savory paco things for their chefs as well. There are a few books, a few other pastry chefs in the US who've really embraced the Paco and are doing some creative things with it, but it's not reached critical mass yet.

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Hey there!

I somehow just came back to this thread, enjoying all of the Pacojet talk and was wondering, specifically from you, Steve, if you could share the titles of the books you mention above, as I've become a bit of a fan of Mssr. 'Paco'!

thanks to all

Edited April 11, 2005 by tan319 (log)

[nathanm]

More PacoJet knowledge in detail would be good. It definitely requires some different techniques than standard equipment.

I have progressed a bit on the savory ice cream front. I have collected a number of recipes from various sources. Some of the things that people use to get texture in a savory ice cream are:

- Olive oil

- Gelatin

- Sugar, but in a reduced amount

- Glucose, in a reduced amount

- Salt - even a small amount of salt depresses the freezing point.

One intriguing ingredient that I have experimented with is polydextrose, a sugar based polymer which the body digests as fiber. It is useful in low-carb ice cream. It has very low sweetness. However, since the molecule size is fairly large it does not depress freezing point, and thus is not a complete solution by itself. Small molecules depress the freezing point better than large ones, which is why salt works well.

That said, I don't have the perfect solution yet. My experiments in sazory ice cream to date are more "interesting" than good. But that is what experimenting is all about...

[jackal10]

Hal McGee, in "The Curious Cook" has a chapter on ices.

He gives detailed tables for suger/acid to give the desired consistency

For example Medium ssweet, but smooth sorbet for Avocado or Tomato

1 1/2 cups puree, 7 Tbs sugar 2 Tbs lemon juice

He discusses a Pineapple avocado sorbet: 1 cup 2 Tbs pineapple, 6 Tb avocado, 9 Tb sugar, 2 Tb lemon juice. You may still need a thickener to give mouth texture.

He points out that ethyl alcohol is about an eighth the molecular weight of sucrose, so it is about four times more effective than sugar at depressing the freezing point. Since wine is about 10% alcohol, roughly 2 Tbs (or 2 tsp liquer) replace 1 Tbs sugar.

[Ekaterina]

Hello everyone! I am a pastry sous-chef, currently based in Paris, France while my husband completes his MBA at an international business school in Fontainebleau.

There are two of us making plated desserts and petit fours for a modern, very upscale bistro Chez Catherine. My chef has a fantastic resume, having worked previously in the kitchens of Plaza Athinee for Alain Ducasse, and most recently George V for Philippe Legendre. While it is increadibly interesting working with my French colleague, it is also sometimes quite frustrating - those cultural differences are immense!

Recently, we put a caramelized banana sable tart on the menu, topped with coconut sorbet. (I don't have a picture with me, but can post it later.) My chef used coconut milk to make his version of the sorbet. The flavor is very synthetic, due to the large quantity of canned milk, and the sorbet coats the mouth with little globules of condensed fattiness. (I honestly don't know how to describe it any nicer, but maybe you know what I am talking about. ) However, this version makes nice little scoops and quenelles to top the tart.

I tried to use milk, infused with shredded coconut, sugar and a little lime juice to make my version. The flavor is nice - very fresh and coconutty, but the texture of the sorbet itself is very runny. It does not freeze solid and is very hard to quenelle. It has a texture of soft ice-cream, like Mr. Softie.

This is the recipe I used:

480 ml. milk

80 g. dessicated coconut

110 g. sugar

a little lime juice

Perhaps someone can help me out and explain how I can possibly get a satisfactory result. I've tried adding more sugar to my recipe, but that acheived nothing, besides making the finished sorbet too sweet for my taste.

Looking forward to reading your comments and advice. Thanks so much!

[rooftop1000]

I dont know if this would be banana overload on top of the tart or a great continuation of theme but I have this link....a banana cocnut icecream....essentially just adding bananas to your recipe

http://www.justfruitrecipes.com/fru-0070309.html

tracey

[nicolekaplan]

use boiron puree and use their recipe, they have tons of info on how to make exemplary sorbets

[Wendy DeBord]

Welcome to The eGullet Society For Arts & Letters Ekaterina!

I hope you are familar with Nicole Kaplan? You'd be hard pressed to get better advice.

[Ekaterina]

use boiron puree and use their recipe, they have tons of info on how to make exemplary sorbets

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Dear Nicole,

thank you very much for your advice. I will definitely check it out. I think that we are gettting the shipment in next week. I will advise my chef, that he should give their recipe a try.

Katya

[JSkilling]

If you go here:

http://www.boironfreres.com/uk/uk_docs.htm

and click on the sorbets you'll see all their recipes. They've already figured out how much of everything you need to keep your sorbets smooth and creamy.

[halloweencat]

hello, and thanks in advance --

i'm looking for a vanilla sorbet recipie. i've found everything from chocolate to kiwi to spranglefussengugleberries -- but nothing for plain vanilla.

also looking for recommendations for good recipie books on sorbet/ice cream.

cheers :)

hc

[Gifted Gourmet]

Voila! Vanilla Sorbet!

Sorbet (Cook?)Books ....

My favorite is:

Irresistible Sorbets: Sherbets, Water Ices & Granitasby Sara Lewis

[halloweencat]

many thanks! :)

my SO (who is comparatively young, considering), just got his chloresterol numbers back basically, the doctor said "immediate action."

he's been very contientious and i really admire his turnaround. the vanilla sorbet request was for him ('tho i will make ample use of it, as i no longer eat ice cream, by preference).

thanks as well on the book recommendation.

many thanks and cheers :)

hc

[halloweencat]

hmmm...i just looked at that recipie...

aren't sorbets supposed to be sans dairy? this one has heavy cream. :?

cheers :)

hc

[Gifted Gourmet]

Cholesterol?? Ooops! then this recipe isn't so good because 2 of the ingredients are 1 cup heavy (whipping) cream and 1 cup milk ..

Let me see what I can do since I now know about the cholesterol issues ...

perhaps a Lovely Lavendar Lipitor sorbet for you??

back in a moment!!

[Gifted Gourmet]

okay! without cream or fat at all ... check this out!

but not for diabetics, you realize ....

[halloweencat]

gg :)

ah, perfect. :)

and the inn at castle hill is just icing on the (ice cream...errr...sorbet) cake. :) i've vacationed in newport a lot over the years, and have always wanted to give the restaurant there a spin.

many thanks again! :) SO and i will be attempting the sorbet this evening (with our new ice cream maker, no less).

thanks again! :)

cheers :)

hc

[jackal10]

The best source, albeit somewhat cryptic are the tables in the chapter on "Fruit Ices, Cold and Calculated" in Harold McGee's "The Curious Cook" (not the big masterwork "On Food and Cooking" 2nd Edition).

From the table on "Sweet Water Ices"

1 1/2 cups water

2 tbs lemon juice

1 tsp of good vanilla essence or scrapings from 2 vanills pods to taste.

14 tbs sugar (yes, fourteen tablespoons)

Boil together, let cool, churn/freeze, ,

Hal notes that this proportion can be used for coffee, tea, herbs etc.

The lemon juice can be omitted or increased to 1/2 cup for a lemon sorbet, in which case reduce the water so the total added liquid is 1 1/2 cups

Edited July 5, 2005 by jackal10 (log)

[ludja]

Granitas are also nice (and non-dairy). I especially like the rougher texture in the summer.

[bilrus]

The recipe linked above calls for a "sorbet stabilizer". A sorbet I made this weekend didn't set as nicely as my ice cream. I assume this would help, but what is it and where would one find it?

[Gifted Gourmet]

The recipe linked above calls for a "sorbet stabilizer".  A sorbet I made this weekend didn't set as nicely as my ice cream.  I assume this would help, but what is it and where would one find it?

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click here

or hereThis is a large amount and probably for a restaurant business but it does smooth and stabilize the results, or so it says ...

[halloweencat]

yes, just caught the "sorbet stabilizer."

well, perhaps vanilla sorbet isn't in the cards tonight, but in a fortnight.

thanks gg, for the stabilizer resource.

cheers :)

hc

[Gifted Gourmet]

eGullet thread on hardness of sorbets ... (not using Levitra here)

interesting article here on stabilizers and their use

[nathanm]

I've had quite a bit of sucess with a roasted tomato "ice cream". Basically it is oven roasted tomatoes and olive oil frozen and then ground in a pacojet. It has a great taste, perfect texture (due to the olive oil) and has zero sugar in it.

So this is one pure success and I did not have to use any specific texture ingredients, although that might not be a bad idea in other cases.

[cakedecorator1968]

Could adding some Balsamic Vinegar to a mix lower the freezing point at which a sorbet sets?

Syrup was about 1200 on the density meter.