$$7.5 million us sales, 65 seats

[davidkemp]

was going through an article done on thomas keller was astonished to find out the amount of sales he does in a 65 seat restaurant with a population in yountville of 2916 people.top notch food ,great service.how does he do it.is there anyone in montreal that does that kind of numbers and why not?

[Marrow Margin]

135 per head for the nine course, 115 for the vegetarian and 5 course. They typically do about 90 covers an evening, every evening they're open, even in torrential flooding, earthquake evacuation, etc. Then you figure in wine sales--which is a substantial chunk of change I'm sure, given the fact that they sell boutique wines from the likes of Helen Turley et al. I spent close to a grand with a companion while there. You go to the Laundry to have an experience, a glutton's feast. The trade off in that experience is financial (and at the waistline). When you think about 7 mil. is about right.

[davidkemp]

was in san fransisco a couple of months ago visiting relatives,we took a drive to napa .went to the viansa winery for wine tasting.when it came to dinner my relatives suggested we go to bouchon ,since dinner was on them i did not want them to bring them to the laundry. dinner at bouchon was excellent . will try per se when it opens that for sure ,even if i have to go alone.

[Marrow Margin]

Bouchon is very good, best Brasserie I've been too, bar none. But you owe it to yourself to sit down, relax, drink a few sips of this and that, and watch the gastronomic Barnum and Bailey's unfold before your eyes at The French Laundry. I shudder to think of what will become of Mr. Keller's visions when having to split his attention four ways (actually five including the bakery) but if anyone can pull off a Vongrichten better than the man himself it'd be Thomas Keller. Since the Reichl thing that kicked French Laundry press off back in 1994? 1995? Keller has inundated us with his respect and future hopes for his co-workers. From my own interactions with his staff I can see the respect they have for him. He's gonna have some video screen voyeuristic link to Per Se which I think will be good, but in reality, he probably won't need it. What I worry about too, is the personal touch that having Thomas on premises makes. Anyhow, enough pontificating...

Get there.

[davidkemp]

paying attention to the bouchon staff i noticed that they were happy to be there .they enjoy what they do ,they are learning from one of the best that is why they do the bussiness they do. i think he will do well because he has competent staff that have the same values as keller.its ashame in a city like ours apparently known for good food there are no thomas kellers.there are a lot of copies though.

[grinnel]

i have been to the laundry last fall, and enjoyed it. it seat about 80 in the multiple rooms they have. the standard tasting menu that most of the people choose is around 120$ us., plus the corkage is a flat 50$ per bottle, if you bring your own. they do 80 customers every night of the year. This formula garanty stable food sales of 3 1/2 million a year, amazing indeed.

[docsconz]

its ashame in a city like ours apparently known for good food there are no thomas kellers.there are a lot of copies though.

How many Thomas kellers are there? Montreal has nothing to be ashamed of. It is one of the best food cities I know in North America. as for star power, it will even have its own Ducasse. Nevertheless, with restaurants like Toque, les Chevre, Rosalie et al. Ducasse is not even necessary for it to be a fixturen on the North American food map.

[davidkemp]

true there is no other thomas keller,he thinks out of the box.montreal needs

a food makeover .you know you do well when chefs start looking at what you do.my question is why are there no restaurants in montreal with the same sitting capacity that do those numbers.

[eat2much]

I'd venture a guess that there are very few restaurants in North America that do those numbers (with the same seating capapcity)....

However, very few restaurants regardless of size volunteer their sales figures so we have no way of knowing what Montreal restaurants are pulling in..l.

[docsconz]

The most thinking out of the box "unique" restaurant I know of in Montreal is Les Chevres. I've never been to another restaurant like it anywhere.

[Oreganought]

It is one of the best food cities I know in North America. as for star power, it will even have its own Ducasse. Nevertheless, with restaurants like Toque, les Chevre, Rosalie et al. Ducasse is not even necessary for it to be a fixturen on the North American food map.

I don't live in Montreal,but go a few times a year even though I haven't

eaten at Toque or les Chevre I have eaten at Rosalie's twice last November.

While the food was good,the room reminded me of a cafeteria,and the staff,

well let me just say,I've have better informed service at the Keg,seriously.

While it's nice to presume the city we live in has world calibre restaurants

like Decasse or FL,Canada is hard pressed to attract that level of customer

base,I only say this because it still doesn't exist.IMO

[Lesley C]

Oreganought, where are you from? You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but comparing Rosalie to a cafeteria or the Keg, IMO, is ridiculous.

Also, your claim is a bit strong considering you haven't eaten at Toque!, Les Chevres, or I guess La Chronique, Les Caprices de Nicolas, or Milos.

Get to know our upscale dining scene a little better, then we'll talk.

[davidkemp]

i didnt know milos is in the same catagorie as toque and caprices,last couple of times i have eaten at milos i was not impressed,especialy for the price,i have tried elounda on cote vertu and i found it just as good at half the price.

[jersey13]

Also, I don't think Oregonaught's "cafeteria" comment was intended as an attack, but just a comment on the layout/decor. The way I see it, you don't have to love the interior of a resto to be a fan of the place. The decor is just a reflection of the owner/chef. Kinda like being in someone's living room. As for the "keg" remark, it's not the first time I've heard comments of that nature made about the service from what seem to be staunch Rosalie fans.

All this being said, I still can't wait to try the place....

[Oreganought]

I live in Toronto Leslie.The first time I dined was a Tuesday evening around 9:00

and the restaurant was empty.My first impression was a large rectangle space

fully occupied with tables that I would consider far too close together,and

lighting while attractive on it’s own, to be overwhelming to the extreme.The room

seemed commercial and uniform and while I love the minimalist concept I think

they could have done a better job with the space available.

My intension was to dine in the bar area , and was the right choice considering I was dining alone.The waiteperson behind the bar was quite young and very friendly,but

after asking a few questions reqarding the menu and wine I knew I was on my own.

This is not a knock on the overall experience , it seems to be quite the norm. I would

be hard pressed to consider Rosalie a world class restaurant,but this is only my opinion.

And just for the record…There aren’t any in Toronto that I think are world class either.

[Lesley C]

I don't think Rosalie is a world-class restaurant either, but I don't think that was ever the chef's (David McMillan) intention. He considers it more of a bistro.

But next time you're here, try Les Chevres, try Toque! and then get back to me. I've been to several "world-class" restaurants that weren't as original or exciting as these establishments.

But, you know, someone has got to cough up a definition of world-class restaurant for me some day. To me an excellent restaurant must reflect its city. And I have to say the diners in Montreal are some of these most sophisticated -- not necessarily wealthy but sophisticated -- in North America.

And to defend Toronto, have you ever dined at Susur, Bymark or Canoe?

[docsconz]

Rosalie is a restaurant with great food at a fair price - in my mind a "world-class" restaurant in terms of price quality. I've dined at many of the top restaurants in NY, Chicago, S.F., N.O, Dallas, Boston, Toronto, Spain, France and Italy and there are few restaurants that I find better values regarding price vs. quality of the ingredients and cooking (at least on this continent). It reminds me very much of a top quality Frenchbistro, but at a fraction of the cost of a bistro in Paris. Is it the most amazingly crafted and "beautiful" food I've ever had? Not by a longshot, but it is amongst the most flavorful.

[docsconz]

Anothern interesting point about Rosalie - the perception of the spaced is very dependent upon where one is seated. I found the space much more attractive when sitting next to the wall than near the bar. I don't know why, but it was significant to me.

[Lesley C]

And boy, that terrace is wonderful!

[davidkemp]

going back to the subject how a 65 seat reastaurant grosses over 7million u.s. in a population of 2900 people leaves me to believe this is a world renowned restaurant.

i wanted to know if montreal has such a place with a population more substantial than yountville.montreal does not have the big spenders it should have .montreal has a lot of flash and the people are more frugal than most big cities.montreal is the capital of 1 a slice pizza and all you can eat for 7.99.

[Oreganought]

We're actually planning to go to Les Chevres in April,and I look forward to the experience,

I've heard good things.

I generally will not offer an opinion unless I have first hand knowledge and my comments were

only for Rosalie,and by your definition "bisto" I do agree the food was of a high level. A few mistakes.....the risotto was overcooked and I found the sauce for the rabbit to be too gelatinous,

but I'm being very picky.I would definately not hesitate to dine at Rosalie's in the future,but it

would not be for the service.

Yes Leslie I've dined many times in all three,and they are very good restaurants,but world calibre?

Actually I liked Susur's first restaurant Lotus better than the current one.That is the restaurant

that made him what he is today,and I consider myself lucky enough to have dined there,it

was the best Canada had to offer in the late 80's before his style was called "Fusion".

Unfortunately I would have to say NYC is the food mecca of NA.We need to exploit what is

unique about our individual communities and build on those virtues and considering our

culinary lanscape is very young,we can still shape the general direction.Not too

many countries left that can say that.I've talked enough..bye for now.

[ABG]

going back to the subject how a 65 seat reastaurant grosses over 7million u.s. in a population of 2900 people leaves me to believe this is a world renowned restaurant.

i wanted to know if montreal has such a place with a population more substantial than yountville.montreal does not have the big spenders it should have .montreal has a lot of flash and the people are more frugal than most big cities.montreal is the capital of 1 a slice pizza and all you can eat for 7.99.

Keller's French Laundry does the numbers it does not from the local population of Yountville, but from tourists into Napa valley. It remains the premier dining choice in the region and requires a 3 month advance reservation.

While no one in Montreal needs 3 months advance for a table for 2, I am sure some of the larger restos and the glam ones on the strip are doing multi million dollar sales of F+B.

[davidkemp]

yes tourism plays a roll ,napa gets approximately 5 million tourists a year over a large area.montreal wich is smaller in size gets 15 million .yes there are restaurants on the strip that do great numbers ,serving over 250 a night.why is montreal then so different? montreal tourists and locals are more frugal .they rather hit prince arthur and eat for $15 .

[carswell]

yes tourism plays a roll ,napa gets approximately 5 million tourists a year over a large area.montreal wich is smaller in size gets 15 million .yes there are restaurants on the strip that do great numbers ,serving over 250 a night.why is montreal then so different? montreal tourists and locals are more frugal .they rather hit prince arthur and eat for $15 .

"Frugal" is putting it nicely. Poor would be more accurate. Montrealers have fewer cars and are more likely to rent than own a home than the citizens of just about any other major city in North America. Our unemployment rate, incidence of low-income households and proportion of residents receiving government assistance are among the highest in Canada. Have you compared land values in the Bay area and Napa Valley with Montreal's? I don't have the stats but I'd be willing to bet that the GDP of the Bay area is way higher than that of greater Montreal, even on a per-capita basis. Also, the Napa Valley is increasingly a playground of the affluent and a popular retirement destination for the well-heeled.

Your five-million versus 15-million tourists doesn't tell the whole story. You need to consider factors like the tourists' pocketbooks and the reasons for their visits. In Napa, it's all about wine and food and gentrified lifestyle. In Montreal, it's more about sales conventions, hockey games, monster truck rallies, gay bars/raves, music festivals and the like, and many of those tourists wouldn't dream of setting foot in a place like Toqué!, let alone a joint costing twice as much.

Also, remember that FL's reputation was firmly established during the dot com years, when many in the Bay area were rolling in money (it's one of the things that drove the prices of top California wines into the stratosphere). That didn't happen here. And as a bright star in an already celebrated constellation, FL has received huge amounts of US media coverage, making it a national icon, a destination restaurant for the well-off from sea to shining sea. Nothing analagous has ever occurred to a Montreal restaurant.

And then there's the competition. How many competing restaurants are there within, say, an hour's drive of FL? Three? Five? That's hardly the case here.

Montrealers love to eat out but, as a rule, don't have tons of money to spend. If your resto budget for the next couple of months is $800, why blow it on a single dinner for two when it can get you three or four dinners that are excellent by any standard or six or eight that are perfectly enjoyable? In the end, I think that's why Montreal is a non-starter for three stars and so vibrant at the two-, one- and no-star levels (your rating system may vary).

[davidkemp]

well said carswell.montreal is a great city with good food ,you could live here if your poor or rich unlike many other big cities,but we are not a gourmet type of town,and the restaurants that are here are reproductions of great american restaurants..not to many good chefs will relocate to montreal due to the the fact that they are limited here.