Ann Arbor Dining

[Alex]

True. However, Milford is closer physically and and more connected geo-psychologically (if I can coin a term) to the NW suburbs, where much of the money resides.

Good point. So how long a drive would you say it is on average? (if such an average is possible to estimate, that is...)

The Metro Detroit area is quite spread out, so times will vary. It's been a while since I've lived there, but for example I'd estimate about 30 min. from Birmingham to Milford.

[Alex]

So is there an area with in a half an hour, or less, of ann arbor that a restaurant could be built?  Ideas... plymouth, canton, novi?

I think for a place in downtown Ann Arbor to succeed, it would have to be pretty small. You're not going to get 50 covers a night, I don't think. How many tables does EVE have?

I also think that you'd want to do a 3-course prix fixe for somewhere around $50, which would make you competitive with the corporate restaurants that line Main. Then you could have a 5 and/or 7 course for more adventurous/monied diners. Throw in some wine pairings, and now we're talking someplace that I could get excited about.

What she said. Except I'd try to keep the 3-course prix fixe under $40. Rationale by request.

I'd also vote for A² rather than the Detroit burbs.

[JimInLoganSquare]

And Michigan is even worse.  Detroit being the Motor City and all, people don't just want free parking, they want free parking immediately adjacent to wherever they are going.  Thus the proliferation of strip malls and decline of traditional city centers.  This is why I like Ann Arbor so much - it's actually got a thriving and active downtown.  If people are afraid to come down and be parted from their cars, then hey - that just means there's a shorter wait for dinner for me.

Just to beat this dead horse one last time, if you're paying only 80 cents an hour to park in a downtown parking garage, it is almost certainly being subsidized by the municipality. That means Ann Arborites are ALREADY PAYING to park downtown whether they do so or not. It also means they are subsidizing out of towners to park in downtown Ann Arbor and take advantage of the restaurants and other business there. If I am right about this, then the city should probably advertise more heavily that it is providing this subsidy, as money does talk (Maybe a radio spot: "So maybe parking at ChiChi's by the mall is free, but I'm already paying to park downtown, and I've heard the food's actually better down there. My mind's made up -- I'm going downtown tonight -- I can't afford NOT to!")

Edited February 7, 2004 by JimInLoganSquare (log)

[tammylc]

Good suggestion, Jim. But it's worth noting that despite the complaints of a few that it's "too hard to park downtown," there's no shortage of customers for the many, many businesses that are down there. Ann Arbor has a really vibrant and booming downtown scene, and there are frequently waits for dinner (especially on Fridays and Saturdays). My most common reason for not going downtown for dinner is because I don't want to wait, not because I don't want to park. So promotion like you suggest isn't really necessary.

[JimInLoganSquare]

... there's no shortage of customers for the many, many businesses that are down there.  Ann Arbor has a really vibrant and booming downtown scene, and there are frequently waits for dinner (especially on Fridays and Saturdays).

I haven't been to Ann Arbor for about three years, but it was definitely as busy then as you describe now. So this brings us back to the question, if there really is a high demand for dining in downtown Ann Arbor, why wouldn't downtown be the place to put a higher-end restaurant? Of course, there are plenty of models showing the opposite tactic can work well, too, at least for an old-fashioned white tablecloth place (think of all those 4-star French spots in the middle of nowhere, or at least in a suburban setting). Maybe it's just that in most places, Ann Arbor included, the people with the money to keep a truly expensive restaurant afloat tend to by the Caddy-driving country club set, not the urban scenester types. It's not unusual. As pointed out before on this thread, a major part of downtown foot traffic in Ann Arbor is U of M students, who are not exactly loaded with cash (with some exceptions, of course). When I was a frequent visitor there (from about '88 to 2000), Ann Arbor, while not as "crunchy" as, say Bloomington, was definitely not a hotbed of black turtleneck wearers and $11 martini-sippers, either (i.e., the prototypical "urban scenester" who can make or break a trendy "star chef" restaurant in places like Chicago or San Francisco). Instead, Ann Arbor seemed to me to have more of a post-hippy boho vibe, as well as a more "family friendly" appeal. That's actually a good thing (i.e., to focus on reality more than trendiness and superficiality), but also probably not really compatible with the urban chic aesthetic that makes fashionable, costly dining a possibility. In a much bigger city, there's room for both types, but I'm not sure there's a critical mass of hip, money-burning scenesters in Ann Arbor (media/advertising types come to mind) to support high style/high cost dining. Not that there aren't plenty of people with money in Ann Arbor, they just wouldn't think to spend it that way; they might consider it a waste of money, or simply not get the requisite level of pleasure from that type of dining to invest in it. I think there's a higher tolerance for risk-taking among the clientele and the people who open trendier urban dining spots, with the EXPECTATION that they aren't going to last -- a concept of planned obsolescence the Detroiters should well understand! That temporality and newness is at least half of the appeal. But that's just not the kind of attitude that prevails in Ann Arbor (or most places, actually). And trendiness is not typically a criterion in my dining choices, either, but I do appreciate the fact that restaurants like these are a fertile training ground for kitchen talent, and that tends to improve the creativity and competence of the overall dining scene here.

Edited February 8, 2004 by JimInLoganSquare (log)

[cbarre02]

Ok then, could a restaurant like Tapawingo (elsworth, MI) survive here. They offer a four course menu, with the "principal" dish dertermining the overall price of dinner (noting over $52). The food is more "midwest" than tribute, and would have more appeal in a smaller community... I think.

Tapawingo

[tammylc]

Tapawingo is great. I wrote a review of it in the summer.

I think the model isn't bad - although I've presented my favored model earlier in the thread (3 course prix fixe for those that want cheap and less than 2 hour dinners, larger tasting menu for special occasion types). The big question is can you do Tapawingo level food for that price in Ann Arbor - I think the overhead costs would make it a no-go.

Have you been to, or know anything about Jeremy (also mentioned earlier in the thread)? From the descriptions I've read, it seems like it's got the right idea...

[lala]

"Eh, the parking problem in downtown Ann Arbor is overrated. It's really not that bad. Especially compared to any city of any size. I mean c'mon people - if you can't find free parking and have to park in a structure, it's a whopping 80 cents an hour!!! It doesn't stop the restaurants from being full and Main St from being busy and active. If I'm going to pay $100 for dinner, I'm not going to complain about paying for parking.

And for what its worth, downtown has a really broad range of restaurants in terms of price, from the low end to the high end. The most high end Ann Arbor has is downtown, in fact."

Harsh, Tammylc...harsh.

[tammylc]

"Eh, the parking problem in downtown Ann Arbor is overrated. It's really not that bad. Especially compared to any city of any size. I mean c'mon people - if you can't find free parking and have to park in a structure, it's a whopping 80 cents an hour!!! It doesn't stop the restaurants from being full and Main St from being busy and active. If I'm going to pay $100 for dinner, I'm not going to complain about paying for parking.

And for what its worth, downtown has a really broad range of restaurants in terms of price, from the low end to the high end. The most high end Ann Arbor has is downtown, in fact."

Harsh, Tammylc...harsh.

Hey, what can I say - I tell it like I see it. As you might have noticed, I've got opinions, and I'm not afraid to share them!!!

[lala]

And you might want to consider other people's veiwpoints, too, whose feedback is equally as valid as yours.

Edited February 9, 2004 by lala (log)

[cbarre02]

Dining at pacific rim tonight. Will Give some info about the meal later.

[Michael Laiskonis]

Just to throw a few cents into the pot...

The new chef de cuisine at Emily's, formerly of Tribute, is Gabe Lacatoure.

Jeremy and Paula Grandon of Jeremy are also both Tribute alumni.

It is difficult to put a finger on Tribute's success, especially in the context of its location in a geographically challenging region, not to mention the relatively boring dining scene in SE Michigan. While we estimate upwards of 25% of our clientele come from 'out-of-town', our location does mean we see less traffic than we'd like from Ann Arbor to the west and Grosse Pointe to the east. All I can say of Tribute as a model, is that a similar project would require a lot of money, strong personalities in both the front and back of house, and a strong, identifiable cuisine. And a lot of money.

I'm such a dullard these days that I can't remember the last time I was in Ann Arbor (or Windsor for that matter), so I don't know any of the mentioned restaurants apart from the Earle or Zingerman's, or Common Grill in Chelsea. Someone brought up Ann Arbor's 'sister' cities- Madison, Chapel Hill- but what about Berkeley? Would the obvious model that is Chez Panisse find footing here? Or is the proximity to Northern California's agricultural eden the primary force behind CP, rather than simply its location in a 'progressive' college town?

I agree that A2 needs something to call its own. While the restaurants in the western suburbs do attract business from the west, I don't see the very important Oakland County money willing to trek down to Canton for dinner. Novi, maybe. Both rapidly growing areas are, however, choked with chain restaurants; no matter how much 'quality' you invest in to compete with these places, I don't see the support...

[cbarre02]

I thought this to be true, as do many of us, but just don't want to swallow it. I hate the fact that a place with so many +'s is brought down by the few -'s.

[terrarich]

Having lived in Ann Arbor for a few years I would have to say that the people there are more thatn happy to stay at home for the middling fare available there. Why travel for half an hour or more when there are at least several places that have comfortable atmosphere with good, not stellar, food?

I grew up in Chicago and was very let down upon my move to AA once I realized that the food scene was so-so. A few years later I found out that my wife's career was going to move us to East Lansing. I quit my well-paying job and started a culinary apprenticeship in order to have some contol over my need to be near good food. I am now into my second year apprenticing under Chef Eric Villegas at Restaurant Villegas in Okemos, the only place in town that I thought would satisfy my interests, and am enjoying every minute of it.

Terrarich

[Alex]

I am now into my second year apprenticing under Chef Eric Villegas at Restaurant Villegas in Okemos, the only place in town that I thought would satisfy my interests, and am enjoying every minute of it.

Terrarich

Good place! One of my few regrets about not working in Lansing any more is that I'm now about an hour's drive to Restaurant Villegas. I'll have to poke my head in and say hi the next time I'm in the area.

[cbarre02]

What about the Chez Panisse example? Ann Arbor is a very "Whole Foods" type community. People are willing to pay for great ingredients, do you think that they would pay for that type of food. I think that it could appeal to the "post hippy" (thank you Jim) crowd, with its reverence for great agriculture. I think of all models that this one could be the most promising, for the Ann Arbor community. Simple, but elegant... Straight forward, yet well thought out... Innovation, with out redefinition.

What do you think?

[tammylc]

Depends - what do you see as the defining characteristics of the Chez Panisse example/model?

I think it's got some potential.

[cbarre02]

Take a look at the website

Chez Panisse

I am leaning more tword the menu ideas, and general feel of the restaurant.

[cbarre02]

So Ann Arborites,

Where did you all go for valentines day? How was the meal?

[tammylc]

We didn't go anywhere. We had plans for Valentine's Day that fell through at the last minute. Rather than scrounging for a reservation on what's often an indifferent restaurant night, we called some friends and threw together a potluck dinner for 10. It was great.

Dinner was:

Spinach salad with goat cheese and strawberries

Roasted Duck with Wine/Dried Cherry sauce

Braised Bison with Sauce with Chinese spices

Braised Potatoes and Carrots with Dill

Spinach and Cheese Ravioli Alfredo

Zingerman's Paesano Bread with Homemade Honey Butter

Molten Chocolate Center Rose Shaped Cakelets

We also did a "vertical tasting" of Michel Cluizel single origin chocolates from Zingerman's that my husband gave me as a Valentine's Day gift. We tasted through four different chocolates, one each from Central Africa, the Carribean, Venezuela and Madagascar. The Venezuelan was described on the back of the box as "profoundly typical" and you know, it really was. Tasted just like you expect chocolate to taste, whereas the others had smoky or acidic or fruity overtones that differentiated them from the norm.

Where'd you go?

[cbarre02]

I didn't go anywhere... Guess I asked cause I have no story to tell. Sorry.

[clothier]

It's interesting to read all the notes about how bad the eating is in Ann Arbor. Come up to Flint sometime, and I'll show you a food waste land.

It boils down to this: if you build it, will they come?

I don't mean to poop on A2, but I think the Oakland County/Detroit Metro is not likely to drive to A2 to eat. I work in Troy, and most of my co-workers and clients only give A2 though on about 8 Saturdays out of the year.

One Tapawingo story: It's a busy August night, we are there with my then 7 year old nephew. He starts to get a little sqwuirmy, and the next thing I know, Chef Pete comes out, and asks him if he would like to come watch them cook his dinner. Couragous kid that he is, he goes. Comes back about 5 minutes later, awestruck. His quote "it was the coolest thing I've ever seen".

Great place to take your kids.

[tammylc]

It's interesting to read all the notes about how bad the eating is in Ann Arbor. Come up to Flint sometime, and I'll show you a food waste land.

Oh, I hope this thread doesn't come across that way! Ann Arbor has great eats - just not in a certain category. I'm overjoyed with my options and the quality, and feel really lucky to live here! I know things are much, much worse in many other places.

And that's a great Tapawingo story - thanks for sharing it!

[clothier]

I forgot to give my V Day report.

We had dinner at El Azteco in East Lansing. Cheese dip, blue corn enchildas and jojoque enchildadas, a couple od sopapillas for dessert, then we went to go see

"50 First Dates".

I'm not an Adam Sandler fan, and the last thing I saw Drew Barrymore in was E.T., but it was a really good movie. Honest. It was. And I'm not a big movie goer or fan. It's a lot of money to spend when I can wait 6 months and see it from home for half the cost. But it was a good movie, and I"m glad I went.

[clothier]

Actually, everyone always complains about how bad the eating is in their hometown to others in their hometown. But then they will defend it to the hilt the second an out-of-towner agrees.

Calvin Trillin did a whole bit on it in one of his books.

Besides, I've been in A2 enough to know better.

It is missing that one "WOW" place, though, you folks are right on target there.