JimInLoganSquare

My pleasure, Ron. The list is easier to read if you put the headings in bold (see below). I also direct those who are interested to check out IndyEthnicFood.org; great resource for Indianapolis dining, and it includes "Hoosier" as a sortable ethnicity and also allows you to filter out all chain restaurants. Indianapolis "Must Eats" Hollyhock Hill 8110 N. College (317) 251-2294 Shapiro's Deli 808 S. Meridian Street (317) 631-4041 Asian Yummy 740 Braeside South Dr (317) 299-8883 Brunch Cafe Patechou 4911 North Pennsylvania Street (317) 925-2823 Cafeterias MCL (various locations; check the website: www.mclcafe.com) Jonathan Byrd's "We are located right off of Interstate 65, Exit 99 in Greenwood, Indiana" (south of Indianapolis) 317-881-8888 Gray Brothers 555 S. Indiana Street Mooresville, IN (317) 831-5614 German The Rathskeller (dinner and great biergarten) 401 E. Michigan St. (in the Athenaeum/Das Deutsche Haus building) (317) 636-0396 Cafe Heidelberg (lunch and bizarre German souvenirs only) 7625 Pendleton Pike (317) 547-1263 Hoosier Mug & Bun (pork tenderloins and housemade root beer) 5211 W. 10th Street (317) 244-5669 Ice House 2352 S West (317)788-7075 Barringer’s Tavern (tenderloins) 2535 S Meridian (317)783-3663 John's Hot Stew 1146 Kentucky Ave Indianapolis, IN 46221-1306 (317) 636-6212 Ayres Tea Room (functioning restaurant reproduced inside the Indiana State Museum) 650 W. Washington Street 317.232.1637 Italian Iaria’s 317 S College Ave (317)638-7706 Mexican/Hispanic El Sol de Tala in Union Station Downtown 39 W. Jackson Place (317) 636-8252 OR El Sol de Tala East Side (original location): 2444 E. Washington (317) 635-8252 La Frontera 2541 W. Washington (317) 822-3994 North African El Morocco 1260 W. 86th Street (317) 844-1104 Soul Food/Southern/Barbecue Elbow Room Pub & Deli 605 N Pennsylvania St (317) 635-3354 Marble's Southern Cookery 2310 N. Lafayette Rd. (317) 687-0631 Big Mama's 2356 N Sherman Dr (317)547-0830 Mississippi Belle 2170 E. 54th St. (317) 462-0522 King Ribs (several locations) 1. 3145 W 16th St - (317) 488-0223 2. 4130 N Keystone Ave - (317) 543-0841 3. 7336 Pendleton Pike - (317) 547-5464 (near Café Heidelberg for German) Generations 2044 N. Harding St. Indianapolis, IN 46202 (317) 639-6339 Big Fellas 3469 N College Ave (317) 258-4079 Upscale Dinner R Bistro 888 Massachusetts Ave (317) 423-0312 H2O Sushi 1912 Broad Ripple Ave (317) 254-0677 Elements 415 N Alabama St (317) 634-8888 Broad Ripple Steakhouse 929 E. Westfield Blvd. (317) 253-8101 Estilo 4939 E. 82nd St. (317) 570-0831 Oakley Bistro 1464 W. 86th St. (317) 824-1231 St. Elmo Steakhouse (a 100-year old classic, but a bit of a tourist trap) 127 S. Illinois (317) 635-0636 Miscellaneous Indianapolis City Market 222 E. Market Street *The Chatterbox (Late-Night Jazz Club, the best in town) 435 Massachusetts Ave (317) 636-0584 Duck Pin Bowling in Fountain Square (Atomic Bowl and Action Bowl – in the same building) 1105 Prospect St (317) 685-1955 (Atomic Bowl) (317) 686-6006 (Action Bowl)

Sheesh! What a hack job -- at least until he got down to business and offered some real opinions and insights into the food. Here's what I posted on another site. JiLS

I confirmed my reservation for Wednesday, May 4 -- opening night. I'm looking forward to being a guinea pig on this one. Thanks for providing the email address; I received a call at 6:45 p.m. and got the feeling the reservationist had made a LOT of calls before he got to me!

And I'll just add the following: Why do guys like John Mahoney keep coming back to Chicago? Why does he continue to be an ensemble member of "bush league" Steppenwolf when he could easily use his Hollywood connections to get a one-man show on Broadway? The reason is that here he can do real theater for an educated and appreciative audience. Period.

Thanks, sieve for finding that piece. "Bush league" is certainly not the appelation I would ever have chosen for the fertile and thriving (and independent) Chicago theatre. Certainly, there is more Equity work in New York; scads more. Chicago's strength is in the non-Equity groups (think Terrapin, Lifeline, etc.). I think the reality is that theater work will almost never pay a living wage, but in Chicago (unlike New York) you can keep a 9-5 job that pays the rent and devote your off hours to the theater. That explains why my wife has been here, actively making great professional (non-Equity) theater for 16 years now.

I think it's those who use the shortcuts (boiling or steaming) who give FOB a bad name and who have come under harsh criticism from fans of the low, slow barbecue process. Ronnie, is it safe to assume the various FOB style ribs you've had in NC and other places were done sans any sort of shortcuts? When I said FOB ribs are prevalent in Chicago, I guess I meant the steamed/boiled (shortcut) kind. It's a sign of my ignorance I didn't know there's more than one way to reach FOB status!

I, too, was a semi-regular at the Deerfield location in the mid-1990s. I haven't had Carson's ribs in years, but I do remember the yucky burned-on sauce. As far as the rib meat itself, I remember it was pretty good. Although as you note, Carson's rib meat is not of a fall off the bone ("FOB") consistency, this type of ribs you have to gnaw a little is certainly a valid style, distinct from the FOB variety (and preferred by a lot of people, expecially those outside Chicago; I think FOB style may be a Chicago thing). What I DO recall really liking at Carsons was the pork chop dinner. Those were always huge, succulent and cooked right, and the sauce for them was always applied (properly) near the end of the cooking cycle.

Sam's here in Chicago has Marie Brizzard's parfait amour; of course, they have every other goddaammed thing, so it should've been no surprise. Good luck to the rest of America!

So who isn't enjoying a glass of wine while typing here!

Wow, that was one fast-acting response! I'd say the vodka plus parfait amour is probably right, as this was not an unsubtle-looking drink (just barely tinted). It also has a big, honking lavender bud floating in it. I'll experiment a bit and see if I can get it right; thanks!

I'm looking for help duplicating the lavender martini served in the Redwood Room of the Clift Hotel in San Francisco. During a stay there a few months ago, this became a favorite of my wife's; and I've yet to find any place here in Chicago that does one. So, maybe I can concoct my own?

I haven't been to Ann Arbor for about three years, but it was definitely as busy then as you describe now. So this brings us back to the question, if there really is a high demand for dining in downtown Ann Arbor, why wouldn't downtown be the place to put a higher-end restaurant? Of course, there are plenty of models showing the opposite tactic can work well, too, at least for an old-fashioned white tablecloth place (think of all those 4-star French spots in the middle of nowhere, or at least in a suburban setting). Maybe it's just that in most places, Ann Arbor included, the people with the money to keep a truly expensive restaurant afloat tend to by the Caddy-driving country club set, not the urban scenester types. It's not unusual. As pointed out before on this thread, a major part of downtown foot traffic in Ann Arbor is U of M students, who are not exactly loaded with cash (with some exceptions, of course). When I was a frequent visitor there (from about '88 to 2000), Ann Arbor, while not as "crunchy" as, say Bloomington, was definitely not a hotbed of black turtleneck wearers and $11 martini-sippers, either (i.e., the prototypical "urban scenester" who can make or break a trendy "star chef" restaurant in places like Chicago or San Francisco). Instead, Ann Arbor seemed to me to have more of a post-hippy boho vibe, as well as a more "family friendly" appeal. That's actually a good thing (i.e., to focus on reality more than trendiness and superficiality), but also probably not really compatible with the urban chic aesthetic that makes fashionable, costly dining a possibility. In a much bigger city, there's room for both types, but I'm not sure there's a critical mass of hip, money-burning scenesters in Ann Arbor (media/advertising types come to mind) to support high style/high cost dining. Not that there aren't plenty of people with money in Ann Arbor, they just wouldn't think to spend it that way; they might consider it a waste of money, or simply not get the requisite level of pleasure from that type of dining to invest in it. I think there's a higher tolerance for risk-taking among the clientele and the people who open trendier urban dining spots, with the EXPECTATION that they aren't going to last -- a concept of planned obsolescence the Detroiters should well understand! That temporality and newness is at least half of the appeal. But that's just not the kind of attitude that prevails in Ann Arbor (or most places, actually). And trendiness is not typically a criterion in my dining choices, either, but I do appreciate the fact that restaurants like these are a fertile training ground for kitchen talent, and that tends to improve the creativity and competence of the overall dining scene here.

Just to beat this dead horse one last time, if you're paying only 80 cents an hour to park in a downtown parking garage, it is almost certainly being subsidized by the municipality. That means Ann Arborites are ALREADY PAYING to park downtown whether they do so or not. It also means they are subsidizing out of towners to park in downtown Ann Arbor and take advantage of the restaurants and other business there. If I am right about this, then the city should probably advertise more heavily that it is providing this subsidy, as money does talk (Maybe a radio spot: "So maybe parking at ChiChi's by the mall is free, but I'm already paying to park downtown, and I've heard the food's actually better down there. My mind's made up -- I'm going downtown tonight -- I can't afford NOT to!")

It is only rational to view parking costs -- even when they greatly exceed the nominal amounts charged in Ann Arbor -- as part of the price of admission for a wonderful dinner. Hell, I think absolutely nothing of dropping $8 or $9 (plus a $2 tip) for valet parking here in Chicago. But I grew up in Indianapolis, and I do understand the mentality that says parking should be free. That feeling that , dammit, they've already separated me from $8 of my hard earned money before I've even had a look at the menu. The sense of entitlement to just drive up to every experience in life at zero cost. The feeling that the world is oriented toward separating you from your money, for services that ought to be free. And you know what? That attitude is total crap. Just get over it, get used to the idea that an evening out costs some money, some of which is not for the food, and don't lose perspective because 5% of your evening's entertainment dollars went toward parking your car. Until Ann Arbor has an El, guess what, you're just going to have to drive and find a place to put that vehicle when you get there. And from my many experiences in downtown Ann Arbor there is A LOT of parking available there, but it just isn't free.

Hurray for Hollyhock! Can't believe that one got a mention here, but it's about time. Everyone raised on the northside of Indianapolis for the last 50 years or more has a soft spot for this family style restaurant (literally, it's family style "pass the bowls" service). They've been serving fried chicken dinners in this cottage setting since 1928. Complement that fried chicken with heaping bowls of mashed potatoes and green beans and some apple butter for your fresh baked bread, and it's a little bit of heaven. However, unless you plan on adopting a family while there, don't go alone. (And now my parents have moved within walking distance; maybe I should talk them into a meal on my next visit.)

I've recently had good experiences in Indianapolis at Oakley's Bistro and the Broadripple Steakhouse. You may also want to look at the following restaurant review page from Nuvo, an Indianapolis entertainment weekly: http://www.nuvo.net/cuisine/ The reviews seem pretty fair and they have a deep archive. I don't get back to Indy as often as I should (just ask my mother), and therefore haven't been able to sample a lot (or even just a few) of these places. However, unless the Nuvo reviewers are completely off their rocker, there are a lot of really good restaurants in Indianapolis Indy is a sprawling, "cars only" city and there aren't many options right downtown. Like so many towns, looking closely at your options probably will be more productive than throwing your hands up and bemoaning the supposed lack of "any" good restaurants based on a walking tour of the financial district.

Regarding 190 North, that show was taping in Monsoon the one and only time I ate there, February '03. Now THAT'S how you get good service -- be seated at a big, central table with 15 guys (it was a business dinner) while the tape is rolling! We had a fantastic meal, nothing at all like what it sounds like jglazer had to put up with. (I've also had two really good meals at Big Bowl while commercials were being taped; guess I'm just lucky that way.)

Looks like Weber Grill has become at best highly inconsistent and maybe has taken a serious slide in quality since it expanded into a three-store chain. Now that I think about it, I realize it's been at least a year since I went to Weber (the Wheeling location), and while my experience was good (both food and service) there were some signs of encroaching chain-ism ("slick" mass-produced menus, the addition of the "Smoky Joe Bar," etc.). I'll just say my good experiences and fond memories of the Wheeling location appear not to be representative now, particularly for the other stores. Looks like the many negative reports showing up here may, unfortunately, be more representative, which is sad, because this used to be a pretty good place.

Chicago has an enormous Italian-American population dating back over a hundred years. I'd put the food served on Taylor Street or in the Heart of Italy or even a northwest side joint like Manzo's or Sabatino's up against anything offered as Italian or Italian-American in San Francisco any day. I'd say the same for the many old-school red sauce houses in places like Cleveland, Ohio or Syracuse, New York or any number of Italian-American gastronomic tidepools in this diverse land of ours. Unlike wine, with the great transportation systems we have here, for cooking "terroir" is more or less irrelevant in this country. That said, there are so many great restaurants in and around San Francisco, there is absolutely no reason to stoop to eating at an outpost of Maggiano's, Bucco de Beppo or any other equivalent if you don't want to; so just don't. Also, as a philological/philosophical/sociological note, I would ask you please not to use the words "midwestern interpretation" interchangably with "corporate interpretation" -- i.e., please don't equate "midwest" with "undifferentiated, bland and undiscriminating." That equivalency only demonstrates your own provincialness, not that of those you attempt to target. There's plenty of bland food sickness everywhere, and San Francisco certainly ain't immune to that disease, or to its coprporate imputation. (That Hardee's "Frisco Melt" cheeseburger a few years back was pretty darned tasty, if I do say so.) Finally, and by the way, Maggiano's originated in Chicago; I've eaten there many times over the last 10 years. It used to be better, and based on what I've read here, it's still somehow better here than elsewhere; but that's always true with chains, isn't it?

Are you sure you weren't in Wheeling, Illinois (northwest suburb of Chicago)? The original Weber Grill restaurant (or at least the oldest surviving one of the three current locations) is located there. Much smaller and more traditional looking restaurant than the "expansion team" locations in River North and Lombard (western suburb of Chicago). The first time I ate in the Wheeling location was 1992, and it felt like it had been around a while before that. Anyway, I agree with the general opinion about the quality of the food; for a good steakhouse it's a real bargain that keeps me coming back. And the "novelty act" feature of cooking on Weber grills is completely invisible, if you want it to be (i.e., at least in Wheeling you are not forced to watch the kettles in action, but can if you want peek through a discretely located window).

I'd recommend buying the Riedel chianti/zin/riesling glasses as a good start on "special" wine glasses. These little guys aren't cheap, but they are versatile (they work well with most popular red and white wines, with the exception of chardonnay, for which they are a bit of a dud). They are also relatively small (many of the special wine glasses are enormous, with long, easily breakable stems). As I note in another post, I've found the Riedels are dishwasher friendly (not only based on wear, but also because they are short enough to fit in there). You should also think about a set of cheaper Bordeaux glasses, maybe in the 14 oz. size; the Cost Plus glasses are good, or if Amazon is still having its special, try the Spiegelau. "Bordeaux" glasses aren't just for Bordeaux wines; when people refer to "all purpose" red wine glasses, this is more or less what they mean. Although nobody puts 14 oz. of wine in their glass at once (O.K., not most people), the extra room lets you swirl the stuff around, which releases aromas and more importantly makes you look good in front of your guests (obssessive-compulsive wine swirling is also valuable therapy if you have lots of nervous energy in your hands).

Yeah, those chianti/zin glasses are my faves, too. In fact, I'm using one right now! As advertised by Riedel, they also work great for riesling (and some other fruity whites). Since these three varietals are what I drink most often, these are my most used wine glasses. And I've found they stand up to the dishwasher quite well (maybe 30 washings so far without any clouding).

Spiegelau is a real bargain right now on Amazon; $30 for a set of six. And I managed to get 11 for the same price, and hurrah for Amazon. Here's how: One of the six glasses was broken on arrival. I contacted Amazon through their "returns" page and immediately they sent a complete replacement set of six, no charge and by Federal Express (the original set was shipped standard UPS, at my choice). They gave me a return sticker to send back the broken glass, which I did -- but I doubt they much cared, as the replacement set went out way before I sent back the broken one. I suppose Amazon insures itself well, or else it would be going broke shipping glassware in individual UPS boxes. What are others' experiences?

I always have a glass of prosecco as an apertif when I go out for Italian. In fact, I did so last night. Usually it's overpriced ($6 to $8 a glass), because most people confuse it with Champagne and are willing to pay a premium. I don't care, because I like it that much. And of course when I buy a bottle for the home, it's always under $10 (or if not, I'm unlikely to buy it), so I save money that way.

Here's a review I posted on Citysearch in February. I liked the place at the time, although I have not returned and, looking at many of the reviews posted by others since then, the place seems to have hit the skids: "Our large group skidded in during last Tuesday's mini-blizzard and were treated to an inspiring display of both caring, attentive and professional service and a fantastic meal. What you take away from Monsoon is the kitchen's facility with contrasts and balance. Because we ate a special tasting meal I won't comment on specifics -- suffice it to say we were very pleased (and a local infotainment show was filming that night to preserve the evidence.)" I think what I may not have connected on at the time is -- hey, yeah -- the TV cameras are rolling and focusing on our big table for 20 -- maybe we're getting SPECIAL TREATMENT from the restaurant. It would look awfully bad to have 20 scowling men on the TV show, wouldn't it? So I think I'll reserve judgment, but it does look like, at best, Monsoon is getting mixed reviews.