The dangers of the high horse

Pan · January 12, 2004

Indeed, and that's why threads like this are salutary.

ExtraMSG · January 12, 2004

I think it's good to have a bit of food snobbery, but a little goes a long ways. I don't know that people who have low standards should be proud of that fact (although, there's something to be said for people who can be happy with whatever is put in front of them).

However, there is a difference between common/low foods and bad food. Most recongize that, though, that there's good bbq, good burgers, good tacos. But even beyond that, some "junk" can be quite sublime in the right context: Twinkies, Doritos, Dr. Pepper, etc.

btw, making your own stock is about the simplest thing to cook besides scrambled eggs. It just takes time.

tommy · January 12, 2004

Indeed, and that's why threads like this are salutary.

do you think the preachers are taking note?

wesza · January 12, 2004

Now I realize what benefit you aquire being retired with only one goal remaining to dedicate myself to my one true calling.

I declare that I do am now a Professional in something we all share but few may dedicate themselves to by choice.

My calling is to be a, "PROFESSIONAL EATER" !

I will try my best to eat the WHOLE THING [well taste or try it anyway]

This means all: FAST FOOD, GOURMET, VEGAN, BLEEEEKH !

No snob am I just your average sort of fat GUY. I eat it all for just the experience so what s wrong with that, it's what i've been doing all along, but now i've declared that it is something i've attained thru vast experience.

All eGulleters should eventually aquire this skill with dedication, hard work, travel and appetite. [Deep Pockets]

Irwin :wub: :unsure: :biggrin:

Katherine · January 12, 2004

I've pointed out this before, but every time I've been told it is untrue, that what goes in NYC is absolute truth in the rest of the world.
Just want to be sure I'm understanding this statement correctly. Are you stating or implying that "what goes in NYC" (by that I presume you mean something that is enjoyed, appreciated and widely accepted in NYC as a standard of excellence?) is or shuold be accepted as a defacto standard in the rest of the world? If that's the case.... we need to separate the NY Forum in a big hurry and have a distinct and unique discussion area for cetrtain parts of Manhattan and its residents alone!

What I'm saying is that if someone posts that a certain thing (let's say foie gras) is now mainstream and common in the entire country, partaken of by just about everyone (or at least a broad cross-section of the population), and I post to the effect that I have looked for it and not found it available in my entire state, I will be/have been told...

...that I am wrong.

...that it is available in my area because it's available in NYC, and people around me are eating it, even if I see it's not true.

...and can be purchased in my neighborhood at the same price you would pay, instead of the 5-10x that I would have to pay to get it on the Internet.

...or if none of these are demonstrable, then that my area doesn't count, only the largest metropolitan areas on the coasts represent the mainstream.

A lot of people who live in the city need to get out more.

Pan · January 12, 2004

Indeed, and that's why threads like this are salutary.
do you think the preachers are taking note?

I dunno.

tommy · January 12, 2004

Indeed, and that's why threads like this are salutary.
do you think the preachers are taking note?
I dunno.

why do you think threads like this are salutary?

Cusina · January 12, 2004

The only reason I've tried foie gras or made my own stock or bought a cast iron pan is because I read about it here first. I liked it, it's tasty. I'll do it all again when I get the chance.

Roux, you feel like this site has changed over the past few months for the worse because it is becoming more snobbish and narrow minded? To respectfully disagree, I think it actually seems to be welcoming more diversity. I felt absolutely nothing but supported and downright cheered on when I bared my sliced american grilled cheese making soul on my blog. I didn't feel attacked at all, even when eating chili out of a can for lunch (oh the agony!) Perhaps I'm misreading your rant, but I think most of us are here to question, learn and maybe have a laugh in the process. Maybe I'm just being a Polyanna, but I'm not seeing it become intolerant, just, like docsconz said very eloquently, more passionate.

Mabelline · January 12, 2004

But on the other hand, reading this has put a lot of things into perspective to me. I fully understand Katherine's dismay about ingredients and availability. Since being on eG, though, I've come to appreciate my home and what I have.

But, no matter what, I still don't eat beets or canteloupes :shock:

Busboy · January 12, 2004

There's no question that there's a touch of New York-centrism to eGullet, or maybe (to include myself) East Coast-centrism, but I don't think it's malignant or (usually) snotty. Keeping in mind that there are regional differences is manners and that a medium like this invites rapid response over deep thought, it's a pretty polite board.

I'd say that the more passionate and critical posts, as a rule, tend to come when the discussion veers into politics, economics, philosophy or criticizing Charlie Trotter. You're a hundred time more likely to draw a heated response if you discuss smoking, food stamps, or the "broader effects" of "bad food" than you are if you just say that you like the occassional Velveeta and taco sauce nacho orgy.

tommy · January 12, 2004

i'm with busboy. although we all clearly have a different set of posts that we read, and within them we're most likely involved in different conversations, any problems almost always occur in dicussions that aren't directly related to food. the how-to-live-your-life discussions have most likely turned more than a few off of egullet. it's a shame that people can't understand that not everybody lives by their rules, has the same set of values, or worships the same god.

Pan · January 12, 2004

Indeed, and that's why threads like this are salutary.
do you think the preachers are taking note?
I dunno.
why do you think threads like this are salutary?

While some of the hard-core preachers may not be taking note or, even if they are, may not change their ways, others will. To use a 60s and 70s term, it's all about consciousness-raising, isn't it?

I used to make complaints that eGullet was too skewed toward high-end dining, with some members having a real attitude problem, preaching condescendingly that, essentially, no meal that costs less than at least something over 1/6 of my monthly rent is worth a damn, and that I should shut up about food because some people can pay the cost of my alto flute for dinner or wine every day of the year. I think you remember what I'm talking about. And while my complaints had limited effect at first, I think it's fair to say that they were taken into account.

I have to say, though, that complaints about foods certain posters don't like are on-topic. I, for example, would never eat a meal at a place like Burger King or McDonalds unless that were necessary to avoid genuine hunger. I think all of us have standards. And eGullet can and does encompass a variety of diners, home cooks, and industry professionals with a variety of interests, priorities, likes and dislikes, and income levels. In my opinion, however, a call for more sensitivity and inclusiveness is seldom inappropriate.

FistFullaRoux · January 12, 2004

The only reason I've tried foie gras or made my own stock or bought a cast iron pan is because I read about it here first. I liked it, it's tasty. I'll do it all again when I get the chance.
Roux, you feel like this site has changed over the past few months for the worse because it is becoming more snobbish and narrow minded? To respectfully disagree, I think it actually seems to be welcoming more diversity. I felt absolutely nothing but supported and downright cheered on when I bared my sliced american grilled cheese making soul on my blog. I didn't feel attacked at all, even when eating chili out of a can for lunch (oh the agony!) Perhaps I'm misreading your rant, but I think most of us are here to question, learn and maybe have a laugh in the process. Maybe I'm just being a Polyanna, but I'm not seeing it become intolerant, just, like docsconz said very eloquently, more passionate.

Cusina:

In my opinion, the site has changed over the last few months. It has changed from, "You really should try xxxx if you get a chance" to, "You are poisoning yourself with toxic swill if you aren't eating what I am."

I consider that to be insulting. And I have learned that pretty much, no matter how you feel on any subject, someone somewhere agrees with you. So if I feel put off by this, I know there are others who would feel the same. Others that may not be as willing to step up and say so. That is the reason I brought it up. I like this place. I like the people here. I've picked up a few things that I have used, and other stuff I plan to use one day. I simply wanted to point this out so all of us who read and post here do not lose sight of the common goal.

We all act like adults around here (most of the time, at least). I've seen very little "nanny-nanny boo-boo" stuff. But when it is dressed as a sneer or a dismissive wave of the hand, I feel, personally, that there is an intrinsic acceptance of it. If you point someone out for not enjoying or being able to obtain an expensive ingredient, it is similar to telling them that, "You should stick to the graham crackers and Chef Boy Ar Dee and leave the discussion to the adults," or your opinion no longer matters. You are no longer a person of consequence. I will fight that tooth and nail.

I know I'm relatively new around here, and I don't have a lot of weight to throw around, but I will never intentionally dismiss anyone's feelings regarding food. It's basic. We need it like water and shelter. We cannot live without it. And I refuse to make someone feel bad about the food they choose or have to eat.

tommy · January 12, 2004

In my opinion, however, a call for more sensitivity and inclusiveness is seldom inappropriate.

i see we agree. :biggrin:

Mayhaw Man · January 12, 2004

But on the other hand, reading this has put a lot of things into perspective to me. I fully understand Katherine's dismay about ingredients and availability. Since being on eG, though, I've come to appreciate my home and what I have.

I have spent some time in the last couple of years posting on a couple of other food related sights and frankly staye away from egullet as a poster (but not as a lurker, I have been reading for a long time) because I always percieved that it was kind of an urban East Coast sort of place. I may have been right a year ago, but I do not think that would be an appropriate description of egullet at this point in time.

I find the reading and posting audience to be diverse and interesting. Many social and economic circumstances are covered here and for that matter, many diverse cultural points of the globe are represented as well.

I don't live in New York. I live in South Louisiana. I have traveled more than most people will ever get the opportunity to and appreciate that experience for what it taught me about how and why people live (and eat) the way that they do. I spent many days on industrial sights with regular blue collar guys and many nights being wined and dined by whoever I was working for and many, many times I found that I liked what I had for lunch waaay more than what I had for dinner. Many times the regular folk food is just better on every level (this is, to me, especially true in Mexico and my home New Orleans) than what the white table cloth crowd is eating.

I do cook from scratch. Almost everything, almost all of the time. We eat out as a family rarely, but we eat really well at home. The dollar amount involved is certainly more than we need to spend. Then again food and cooking consist as my biggest hobbies and I don't see $100 or so extra per week as any different than someone else having premium cable and going to two movies a week. Cooking is what I enjoy and what my family enjoys me doing. I buy the best ingredients when I want them and buy as much as I am going to need. FFRoux is right about South Louisiana cooking though, it can be pretty inexpensive as much of it is pot food and when we are eating native (which we do about 1/2 the time) it certainly does not cost much to feed the family. Katherine is similar to me in that I appreciate my home and my situation more and more as I read these threads.

Anyway, I think that the group here on this website is pretty diverse and getting more so everyday. And while I know just where to go get a big hunk of liver, I don't do it very often (twice in the last two years) and only then for a very special occasion. On the other hand I have an Oyster House 1/2 mile from mine and one of my neighbors shrimps every weekend it is legal. I have a boat and all of my friends have boats-this provides redfish, speckled trout, flounder, red snapper, white trout, etc. Those guys up in New York may be able to get good liver and have great delis, but I got your fish right here, bubba :raz: We all have something the other guy can't get and that is what I come here to read about and I assume that many of you are similarly situated.

I think that there is room here for the guy on the high horse and for the guy riding the mule. They both have much to learn from each other. There is generally so much info here that it is hard to take in even a small portion of it. For example-I have lately found myself reading a conversation among some of our Indian readers about what foods the players eat during the breaks in a Cricket match(between innings? :blink: ). I know nothing about cricket and still don't (the rules are more unfathomable than Gaelic :shock: ), but their banter is fascinating and it is like reading code of some sort that you can't quite crack. I like that conversation BECAUSE i can't really identify with it and I see it as a way of learning something about a culture I might otherwise have not been exposed to.

Incidentally for those of you that were wondering-I like my truffles and caviar on a bed of chopped and breaded okra :laugh:

fifi · January 12, 2004

Incidentally for those of you that were wondering-I like my truffles and caviar on a bed of chopped and breaded okra

:raz: :raz: :raz:

Brooks... You brought up one of my favorite reading habits. When I get bored with what I am reading, books or on-line, or just want something different, the international threads are great fun. Talk about diversity! WOW!

Mabelline · January 12, 2004

fifi, I KNEW he'd bring up okra!!

MM, what do you not like?

Edited January 12, 2004 by Mabelline (log)

Mulcahy · January 12, 2004

A lot of people who live in the city need to get out more.

That's really funny. I am a New Yorker and I couldn't agree more. We do tend to have a very New Yorkcentric view of the world. I frequently turn to my husband while we are watching TV and say "we really need to get to other parts of the country" when the television program is about some regional issue that has never dawned on me. You mean there are places you can't get Parmeggiano Reggiano and real bagels? We are unbelievable snobs about most things, especially food. It's good for us to remind us of that every once and a while.

fresco · January 12, 2004

But one of the undoubted attractions of eGullet is how fiercely and proudly people champion their turf, including New York. It makes for some fascinating reading.

Busboy · January 12, 2004

In my opinion, however, a call for more sensitivity and inclusiveness is seldom inappropriate.

On the other hand, the occasional dust-up adds a little spice to the site. It's a difficult line to draw and it's hard to guage sensitivities on line. A little insensitivity on the receiving end can be a good thing, too.

Mayhaw Man · January 12, 2004

MM, what do you not like?

I'm not real big on Texans :wink:

Actually I am one of those people that really will eat pretty much anything that I see other people eating and enjoying. I may not always love it (for example, I love virtually every Japanese dish I have ever been introduced to, but Natto is just not something I want to eat-and I GREW UP on a farm raising soy beans). I just like food. I like learning how to cook other people's stuff and using their cool native utensils. WHen I am traveling it is never a museum that I go to first, it is almost always some kind of market or grocery. You can learn a hell of a lot more about a culture by what they eat and how they shop for food than by what some archaeologist dug up and put on display (although, not to demean any antiquities experts, you can learn from old stuff too -you just can't eat an antique :laugh: ).

So to answer your question-so far I have liked everything that I have ever eaten on one level or another and it is a good thing that I play tennis often and hard, or I would be as big as a house. :laugh:

Mabelline · January 12, 2004

But not knowing about the unavailability of something somewhere else is not "snob-i-ty". It's just bringing you into the sphere of things. That's why this is such a cool place.

Pan · January 12, 2004

I somewhat regret the fact that I've travelled more in parts of Asia and Europe than the U.S. and other countries in the Americas. No, I don't regret it too much because I wouldn't give up my travelling experiences for anything, but I know very well that there's a lot of country out there to see in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, etc. One of these days, I'd like to visit more parts of those countries. But Africa also beckons...

Anyway, if any of you haven't seen The New Yorker maps of the world, you owe it to yourself to find a copy somewhere. They're hilarious and do reflect an attitude many New Yorkers have, reflected in some funny but pointed remarks by fifi about "flyover country." :laugh:

Mudpuppie · January 12, 2004

WHen I am traveling it is never a museum that I go to first, it is almost always some kind of market or grocery. You can learn a hell of a lot more about a culture by what they eat and how they shop for food than by what some archaeologist dug up and put on display (although, not to demean any antiquities experts, you can learn from old stuff too -you just can't eat an antique ).

And about how they treat each other, too. I always have felt that grocer stores are the best place for gauging human kindness and courtesy, and lack thereof.

I'm not real big on Texans

:angry:

Mayhaw Man · January 12, 2004

I'm not real big on Texans

:raz: :laugh:

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