Story of Varmint's Kitchen Renovation

[mnebergall]

Have you thought of contracting with the Al Qaida to fly a fully fueled 757 in there to do the domolition. It might be cheaper than the other contractors you talked to.

[phaelon56]

Are the existing cabinets built in place or were they premanufactured cabinets that were hung and screwed in? If you're replacing the sink, stove, countertops etc.... it seems that even with the substantial amount oif extra work involved, it migfht be easier to remove the existing cabinets (if in fact this is possible) and then hire a couple of college students or other grunt laborers with a few sledge hammers to remove the existing floor and substrate. I've removed two separate bathroom floors that consisted of small hex tiles on a 2" thick portland cement base. It wasn't pretty but it was worth the effort.

A possibility that has not been mentioned.... it would be very far from my first choice but has potential for your unique situation.... Pergo. It won't add much to the height of the existing floors and it can be installed in a floating manner above concrete slab floors - can't see why it wouldn't work on top of ceramic tile. I'd go to great lenghts to avoid using Pergo but some folks swear by it and there are some non-Pergo brand imitations now available that are way cheaper and still good.

[Chad]

Okay, your kitchen is seriously fucked up. Dunno what the guy who designed it was smoking, but I want some .

Now, to the most important aspect of this little photo essay. Did anyone else note that the wine cooler was empty?

That would explain a lot.

Chad

[Varmint]

First, the dude who designed the kitchen is my father-in-law.

Second, the wine fridge still has about a case left in it, so it's time to place another order!

As far as the cabinets are concerned, they're el cheapo ones that were custom made, but I have no attachment to them at all. They're made out of plywood, for chrissake!!! But replacing them will cost plenty.

[bloviatrix]

I'm dizzy after that tour.

Carry on.....

[marie-louise]

I'd gut it. I'd be happier with the stove of my dreams & that wonderful refrigerator. I hear great things about IKEA's kitchens-I'd install something from this line along a wall.

[robyn]

OK, I'll try to describe the kitchen with the aid of pictures...

Have to admit - this is one of the worst kitchens I've ever seen . My idea of starting from sketches is looking better and better. Can you make a rough floorplan of the bare bones of the room showing what's structural and what's not? And a basic outline of where the plumbing is. Include the adjoining rooms so we can see what we're working with.

By the way - I disagree with those people who say to start with things like the stove first. Your first priority is to get the "bones" of the room right. You can always upgrade appliances later.

When you get the floorplan ready - it would also be good to prepare a short list of what you would like to do in this area (cooking only, cooking with eating counter, do you store food here or do you have a separate pantry, etc.).

For what it's worth - after looking at these pictures - I wouldn't spend a lot of money doing something like putting a big deal stove in the existing configuration. It's not cost effective and it doesn't make sense. You have to think in terms of gutting the space and starting from scratch. Robyn

[Mayhaw Man]

My Friend,

Just one word comes to mind after perusing your little slide show of horrors-SLEDGEHAMMER.

I think you are looking at ripping it out if you are going to make any sense out of the thing. You could do it in stages if you needed to, but in the long run it looks like you are going to end up tearing it out anyway.

I do kind of dig that cool red tile countertop. Very Seventies.

[Varmint]

If it's a matter of gutting the kitchen, then I'll do nothing, and I'll go insane. I've cooked in this kitchen for 5 years, and every day that I do, I mutter, "I hate this kitchen." I want to at least change my daily comment to be, "This kitchen doesn't drive me batshit as much as it used to." We're replacing the siding on our house (and, of course, replacing it with red cedar planks, some of the most expensive siding available), so the kitchen budget is limited. Seriously, I can't take it any more, so something has to be done.

[fresco]

Ask yourself this: would it be more bearable if you knew with certainty that a year or so down the road you were going to tear everything out and have the kitchen you really want and deserve?

It's hard to get an accurate idea of dimensions from the pictures, but the kitchen certainly seems spacious. It is, as you've pointed out, broken up in a way that doesn't seem to make any sense at all.

This doesn't seem to be a case where half measures make any financial or design sense.

[fifi]

OMG! That is about all I can say. I can't even make much sense of the pictures. The dishwasher/marble slab/oven arrangement got me. We are definitely talking demo here.

But I understand where you are coming from on getting out of the batshit mode for the short term. In that case, I wouldn't spend ANY money on make-pretty at this point and just go for some changes in functionality with an eye toward the final demolition to minimize rework. This is going to require 3 floor plans... in this order:

1) As is... with plumbing indicated. Include a list of what drives you batshit.

2) Final dream kitchen

3) Interim fix

Don't worry too much about support beams. There is almost always a work around. For that you need an architect.

When I said I wouldn't spend any money on pretty, that means that I would live with a patched floor or wall where I took out a cabinet for example. I am assuming that pretty is not one of the batshit factors. After all, you have been living with all of that lovely tile.

You must have an absolute fetish about your siding to have done that first.

[Marlene]

I've got to agree with fifi. You dont want to spend a lot of money on it now if you are going to renovate it properly later. In order to make your kitchen properly functional, it really will require demolition. Sorry. So what can you live with right now, and what do you absolutely need to change in order not to drive yourself crazy?

Siding?! I did my kitchen before we replaced the windows in our house (which really needed replacing ). A kitchen is just much more important

[Varmint]

The siding has to be done, as some of the existing wood has rotted and we're starting to get new tenants (of the furry tailed variety) in some of our attic.

What are some of the quick fixes? Remove the large marble slab and the cabinets underneath, and create a box to house the dishwasher with a new mini-slab above it. Remove the upper cabinets, which are not used and obstruct sight lines. Remove the cabinets above the cooktop, get a new cooktop with appropriate hood, install new cabinets above the new mini-slab.

Fortunately, it's less than a foot or two between the kitchen ceiling and the roof, so installing a hood isn't a problem.

This is where a "temporary fix" makes sense -- if the master, final plan is established where the hood and cooktop would stay in the same place as they are in the temp, then that's great. Then I improve my functionality, spending money only on stuff and labor that would be spent in the master design, without duplication (except for the mini-slab change).

[Marlene]

That could work, except once you remove the cabinets from the bottom, you're going to have to have some sort of temp flooring solution in place. Otherwise you're going to break your neck!

[Varmint]

That's why I've raised the issue of temporary flooring. I think we can find a quick fix that isn't aesthetically ideal. But then, the current floor ain't all that gorgeous, either.

[vengroff]

I would suggest gutting it, living out of a dorm fridge for months while it is remodeled, and then, when it is finally done, moving across the country. It worked for me.

[Marlene]

I would suggest gutting it, living out of a dorm fridge for months while it is remodeled, and then, when it is finally done, moving across the country. It worked for me.

Only you vengroff!

Varmint, have you got measurements of how much floor you'll have to "replace after the cupboards come out? You could possibly get a few squares of either cork, or hardwood and perhaps a "filler" underneath if necessary to make it level until you're ready to gut. If you aren't worried about how it looks, this would work fine. Hardwood might be easier because you can cut it to fit what you need.

[Varmint]

I am remarkably lucky in that we do have a second kitchen, which is located in a loft above the master bedroom. This kitchen has 2 burners and a grill with a downdraft vent (it sort of works). It has a table that sits 6. It has a small single bar sink. There's room for a dorm fridge. I just don't want to eat up there for 3 months.

[maggiethecat]

You know, Dean, I got kind of nostalgic looking at those photos. Some really great cooking happened in that kitchen last October. Sigh.

My first suggestion is to replace that siding fast!!! I will remember Joly 2003 as the month of my life devoted to trying to remove squirrels from my attic, an epic horror show that would take two hours and a bottle of wine to fully describe.

Floor: How about black and white checkerboard linoleum tiles? I love that look, lino's getting chic again, and I don't think it's that expensive.

[Chad]

First, the dude who designed the kitchen is my father-in-law.

Man, I'm having one of those days where I only open my mouth to change feet!

Chad

[Marlene]

I am remarkably lucky in that we do have a second kitchen, which is located in a loft above the master bedroom. This kitchen has 2 burners and a grill with a downdraft vent (it sort of works). It has a table that sits 6. It has a small single bar sink. There's room for a dorm fridge. I just don't want to eat up there for 3 months.

Well, three months of inconvenience compared to a kitchen you'll love forever? We lived out of our dining room during our reno, no stove, etc. And if you get the right contractor, it won't take three months.

[Kim WB]

After looking at the pictures, I'm going to join the camp that suggests some interim fixes, but no major investment until you're ready to gut it.

Not having a functional kitchen with small kids is a real PITA. A month now, and two months a year or two from now..crazy. I'd pinpoint a few of the more crazy idiosyncrancies, like that oven/dishwasher/marble trio, and focus on that.

It seeml difficult to work in, and I can imagine your frustration..but I would look into a home equity loan or skim off the kids college funds...and go for the total redesign. In the redesign, there are ways to cut corners as well..for example, countertops ( in a normal kitchen ) are relatively easy to replace, as are sinks and appliances. I dumped money in hte cabinets and flooring, but wnet with cheaper countertops and appliances..for example, I designed the space for a big sub zero..and then bought a Sears Kenmore. It had a big gap between the wall..for three years, until I upgraded appliances. I had not beautiful but fully functional formica countertops..for five years until I got the Corian I wanted.

And, I say no way on anything but ceramic on the floor...I'm in homes all the time with destroyed hardwoods. These designer surfaces are great in showrooms, or in low traffic homes..I've got mastiffs, kids..I've had lots of surfaces, and ceramic is the only thing that looks good five years later.

Good luck, it's an interesting thread.

[fifi]

Floor: How about black and white checkerboard linoleum tiles? I love that look, lino's getting chic again, and I don't think it's that expensive.

Funny you should say that. that is how I am leaning for the new kitchen. But... Guess what? REAL linoleum is NOT cheap! I am going for the commercial vinyl tile.

[Mayhaw Man]

I don't know how much this will help, but the first house we renovated in New Orleans (really giant old (1835) house on Tchopitoulas very near what is now the convention center) I pretty much had to tear out everything in the kitchen to repair the walls and insulate.

We were working on various other parts of the house and more or less ran out of dough. I still needed work space in the kitchen so we did the following.

Finished the floors. Heartpine. Resand and finish job. Messy but no big deal.

Bought a very nice double, freestanding oven and built a box to house it.

I bought a very old farmhouse dinner table (but nothing particularly expensive or valuable as an antique and a fabulous (at least for the time) Jenn Air cooktop with a grill and a bottom vent and mounted it in the table. I placed the table in the kitchen much like one would an island. It looked very cool and worked great. Accidental great idea.

I went to a couple of cabinet places looking for cabinets that had been rejected for one reason or another. I bought one set with a sink in it and another upper set for dishes etc. I painted them to match along with the cabinet for the ovens.

That's it. No more. 5 years later we finally finished it, but it was very easy as there was pretty much nothing to get in the way of the new cabinetry and carpentry.

I dont need to right now (as I have my fabulous 50 year old O Keefe and Merrit Stove), but I would do that cooktop in the table again in a minute. We used the same cooktop when we built proper cabinetry and as far as I know it is still there.

[Varmint]

Again, there isn't enough money in the budget to do a total demo.

Also, if I were to do a total demolition, I'd go further than what we've already described. I'd move the entrance to the kitchen, so that a major portion of the space isn't taken up with a hallway (see the first picture). Hell, I'd consider moving my kitchen into our "formal" living room, which is hardly utilized. It'd be beautiful! But then, I'd have to gut the old kitchen to make it into better living space!