"Vegetarian Eggs"

[Mudpuppie]

I know that 'free-range' and 'cage-free' don't necessarily mean ideal conditions for the chicken. But I don't think an extra dollar or two for a carton of eggs is too much to pay for better eggs, especially since cheaper eggs just mean that costs are 'externalized' to the animals, the workers, and the environment.

I totally agree -- and there's the bigger issue and I've been trying not to refer to.

For you, the extra dollar per carton is worth it. But is it worth it to pay $2 more per pound of [beef, chicken, pork, etc.] if you know that the animal was raised under relatively humane and healthy conditions? And would you pay $4 for a pint of strawberries if you knew that the migrant workers who picked them received a living wage and were not exposed to harmful chemicals? Would you pay $6 for a yummy Big Mac if it meant the cow was happy and the slaughterhouse worker was happy and the truck driver was happy and the McD's employee was happy...?

I think people should be totally in charge of their own consciences (and I try not to impose my own conscience on other people), but I think most american consumers are happier not to use their consciences. It's simply easier not to think about these things.

And then again, buying free range, cage free, vegetarian eggs does not necessarily mean that you're improving the life of a chicken. (Who, by the way, often live horrible lives if they're part of the industry.)

We are just that mixed up.

[Moopheus]

I wouldn't pay more for the beef because I haven't had any for four years. Factory farming is only part of the reason I'm vegetarian. I chose it for my own personal reasons, and I don't force it on others. I give my cat regular cat food. I'm happy to let chickens be chickens and do their chicken things.

I don't remember ever having a yummy Big Mac. But then, that $6 Big Mac might actually be a better Big Mac. But I get your point. I've met people who really don't seem to have any clue at all where food comes from; it just shows up in the market and they buy it. But it's true, once you try to 'pierce the market wall' as it were, it opens up a big complex nest of issues.

Even if the best eggs I can get in my market aren't ideal, I'll still support the best farming practices I can with my dollars. Ultimately, that's the only way to get any change at all, even tiny ones.

[Pan]

And as for occassionally hanging out with each other -- not really accurate. Chickens flock by nature. They need space, but they also need company. My chickens wuv each other.

My experience was that the chickens all slept in the coop but during the day, came together when people called them for a meal of raw rice and otherwise didn't really form a flock as I would think of it. They walked around in a variety of relationships to one another which struck me as more like the relationships of people in a crowd than geese in a flock flying south for winter or even flocks of pigeons that tend to go to fly to the same place because of the presence of food or danger. There was one hen, though, that clearly enjoyed my rooster's company and liked to stand near him. But these are old though vivid memories, and clearly, your memories are current. (Good points about the manure-covered concrete, by the way.) I take it, then, that you're a farmer of free-range chickens?

[Mudpuppie]

I take it, then, that you're a farmer of free-range chickens?

I would like to call myself a "farmer of free range chickens." In actuality, I have a couple of chickens who have free reign over my suburban backyard. Free range, yes. Farmer, no.

I submit, though, that you will not find happier chickens, or tastier eggs, anywhere.

Chickens are complex creatures. No, they're not brilliant. But they do have emotions and personalities. The treatment they're subjected to in factory farms is nothing less than cruel.

[tryska]

Even if the best eggs I can get in my market aren't ideal, I'll still support the best farming practices I can with my dollars. Ultimately, that's the only way to get any change at all, even tiny ones.

word.

[Moopheus]

I called Egg Innovations this morning and had a nice chat with a customer service rep. She told me that the description of the vegetarian eggs on the web site's FAQ was wrong; the hens are cage-free. They've had some problems with the web site's provider not getting material updated and corrected. She wasn't aware of the error and was actually glad that I pointed it out to her.

She was able to tell me that the floors of coops are chickenwire, so that the droppings can just drop. She said that the farmer's flocks are at least 16,000 birds, though she didn't know what the actual population density in the coops was (she agreed that overcrowding was bad for the birds). She did say there was some beak clipping, but "only the sharp bit at the very tip." They contract with individual family farms to provide the eggs, mainly from Mennonite and Ammonite communities in the midwest. In fact, she says they need more farms--they can't keep up with demand.

[hannnah]

mainly from Mennonite and Ammonite communities in the midwest.

Ammonites would have trouble collecting eggs, vegetarian or otherwise. Amish would probably have better luck.

[jhlurie]

mainly from Mennonite and Ammonite communities in the midwest.

Ammonites would have trouble collecting eggs, vegetarian or otherwise. Amish would probably have better luck.

Apparently at one point there was a distinct group of people who were called Ammonites. But since they are long gone, like those fossilized mollusks, let's move on. We've got enough Mennonites and Amish to take on the egg collecting load!

[hjshorter]

mainly from Mennonite and Ammonite communities in the midwest.

Ammonites would have trouble collecting eggs, vegetarian or otherwise. Amish would probably have better luck.

Thanks. That was the biggest laugh I've had all day.

Mudpuppie, where do you live that you're allowed to keep chickens? We're not allowed to where I am (Montgomery County, MD), at least not in the suburban areas. Animal control has a report occasionally about impounded chickens that were being raised for food or eggs.

Edited January 9, 2004 by hjshorter (log)

[Moopheus]

Ammonites would have trouble collecting eggs, vegetarian or otherwise.  Amish would probably have better luck.

I guess eggs aren't the only thing that gets scrambled once in a while.

[Mudpuppie]

Mudpuppie, where do you live that you're allowed to keep chickens? We're not allowed to where I am (Montgomery County, MD), at least not in the suburban areas. Animal control has a report occasionally about impounded chickens that were being raised for food or eggs.

That's too bad, they're lots of fun.

I'm in CA, near Sacramento. I live right in town on a smallish city lot. Per city ordinance I'm allowed three hens, but no roosters.

Can't beat the eggs or the entertainment value. I strongly advocate chicken ownership!

[Pan]

I'm glad you can keep hens, but it sucks that you can't have any roosters. I can see why, if they want to limit everyone to 3 chickens apiece. But chicks are so cute.

[Mudpuppie]

I'm glad you can keep hens, but it sucks that you can't have any roosters. I can see why, if they want to limit everyone to 3 chickens apiece. But chicks are so cute.

Naw, wouldn't want roosters. Noisy, temperamental, etc. Plus, fertile eggs kind of creep me out.

So here's a question, to bring it back to food. Do y'all buy fertile eggs? If so, why? Do you avoid them? Maybe you've never paid attention?

[Pan]

I wouldn't avoid fertile eggs, but I don't think I'd go out of my way for them, either.

But you know something, I can't remember how they get hens to lay eggs even though they weren't fertilized. How?

[Mudpuppie]

I wouldn't avoid fertile eggs, but I don't think I'd go out of my way for them, either.

But you know something, I can't remember how they get hens to lay eggs even though they weren't fertilized. How?

A female (in this case, a hen) is going to produce eggs regardless of whether there's a male around. This is true for most (all?) animals. In the chickens' case, the rooster just does the fertilizing -- hence "fertile" eggs.

Edited January 10, 2004 by Mudpuppie (log)