Absinthe: The Topic

[bostonapothecary]

What makes absinthe turn cloudy? Is it temperature, dilution?

Now that I have this bottle of Lucid, what should I do with my half-finished Herbsaint?

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if i needed to get rid of some herbsaint i'd cook myself some mussels... or something else mediteranean inspired... and i'd drink the crispest beer i could find to which i'd add amer picon...

[Alchemist]

'Tiz the season for Sazaraks.

Edited December 23, 2007 by Alchemist (log)

[Splificator]

Not quite sure where this recipe exactly comes from or if I am getting it entirely right.

It is not in the "Savoy Cocktail Book," but appears without the egg white in my edition of Patrick Duffy's "Official Mixer's Manual" as the "Seapea Fizz".

Duffy gives the drink's correct name; it was created by Frank Meier of the Ritz in Paris for Cole Porter (C.P., thus "Seapea") some time in the 1930s, ironically as a use for the new Pernod absinthe substitute.

[slkinsey]

What makes absinthe turn cloudy? Is it temperature, dilution?

Absinthe is a high-proof solution containing a lot of alcohol-soluble dissolved substances. When water is added and the proof is lowered, certain alcohol-soluble substances that do not have good solubility in water come out of solution and, being now opaque, create the characteristic milky white "louche."

[eje]

Duffy gives the drink's correct name; it was created by Frank Meier of the Ritz in Paris for Cole Porter (C.P., thus "Seapea") some time in the 1930s, ironically as a use for the new Pernod absinthe substitute.

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That is a bit amusing. I thought I remember reading on eGullet that they served something called the "Sea Fizz" at Pegu Club or some other New York venue, but never got the details of the drink.

Do they still serve it? The egg white absinthe foam was my favorte part of my version of the Seapea fizz.

Meier certainly was fond of fizzy Absinthe drink. Colin Field credits the version of the Corpse Reviver made with Absinthe and Champagne to him, as well. I always wonder if Hemingway got his "Death in the Afternoon" from the Meier at the Ritz.

According to the St. George Spirits http://www.stgeorgespirits.com/]website, they sold out of their new Absinthe inside of 24 hours. Amazingly, there was a long line waiting outside the distillery on the 21st waiting to buy it. St. George says they'll have more available for purchase at the end of January.

Don't fear the Monkey!

[slkinsey]

I thought I remember reading on eGullet that they served something called the "Sea Fizz" at Pegu Club or some other New York venue, but never got the details of the drink.

This is a drink (usually, and it would seem, incorrectly called a "Sea Fizz") that a number of NYC bartenders are known to make from time to time. I'm not aware of it being on any menus.

[Katie Meadow]

Okay, you can all jump on me for blasphemy, but a friend got hold of a bottle of St. George that first night it became available and we had a little party. Hemingway must have been deranged or unconscious BEFORE Afternoon: Absinthe and champagne was the first thing we tried and there was unanimous agreement that it was an awful drink; you might wish you were dead for wasting the champagne like that. The most popular taste of the evening was the simplest: absinthe on the rocks. If I had read this thread first I might have suggested the Seafoam or Seafizz or whatever it's called; that looks ethereal. The color of the St. George Absinthe in the bottle and straight up in the glass is very beautiful.

I didn't love it, but then I am not a pernod or even a licorice fan, but my husband was in heaven; he's been wanting real absinthe for the nearly thirty years we've known eachother. I would use my portion (if I had any) to make an enormous batch of mussels as suggested upthread.

[bostonapothecary]

i haven't spent too much time with absinthe because i'm not an anise fan. but what besides wormwood and the various anise flavors are the other common botanicals? and how much does the wormwood flavor stick out comparatively in the available brands? does limiting the thujone content limit the wormwood flavor? i've been putting lots of wormwood in my vermouths and have really grown to love the flavor. the last time i made a pastis (which i revisited today... delish!) i used every kind of anise flavor i could find but what is the most traditional varieties?

i've heard of distilleries revisiting old absinthe recipes but have any recipes trickled down into the public domain to check out?

[johnder]

There are quite a few published recipes for absinthe floating around, all vary greatly, but most of them seem to include:

fennel, angelica, orris, hyssop, calamus

[eas]

Wormwood adds an element of bitterness and (principally by thujone) an herbaceous note. Even at 8ppm thujone you still get it's herbaceous note.

The other ingredients are much as johnder listed above. Note that you won't find any absinthe, other drink or food legally sold in the US with Calamus (aka Sweet Flag). Whereas thujone has a 10ppm limitation, it's 0 with calamus. This came into effect in the late-60's, early 70's. Real shame - it's an essential ingredient to a number of alpine bitters still sold in Europe.

[eje]

Blanche Absinthes are flavored and then re-distilled in a manner similar to distilled gin. The three essential elements are usually considered Green Anise (Pimpinella anisum), Florence Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), and Grand Wormwood (Artemesia absinthum). The Kubler currently available is a Blanche Absinthe. Modern Absinthes and Absinthe-like beverages often include Star Anise (Illicium verum) among other flavors.

Green (or Verte) Absinthes are made on the same base and then colored (and flavored) by briefly steeping other herbs in the full proof distillate. Common additional herbs include Lemon Balm (Melissa officinalis) and Petit Wormwood (Artemesia pontica). Both the St. George and Lucid Absinthes are Verte Absinthes.

[bostonapothecary]

Blanche Absinthes are flavored and then re-distilled in a manner similar to distilled gin.  The three essential elements are usually considered Green Anise (Pimpinella anisum), Florence Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), and Grand Wormwood (Artemesia absinthum).  The Kubler currently available is a Blanche Absinthe.  Modern Absinthes and Absinthe-like beverages often include Star Anise (Illicium verum) among other flavors.

Green (or Verte) Absinthes are made on the same base and then colored (and flavored) by briefly steeping other herbs in the full proof distillate.  Common additional herbs include Lemon Balm (Melissa officinalis) and Petit Wormwood (Artemesia pontica).  Both the St. George and Lucid Absinthes are Verte Absinthes.

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wow, those are some serious options...

today i was going to convert my usque-baugh liqueur (interpretation) into an absinthe-esque liqueur by adding wormwood and seeing what came out... fitting in between the balance of the saffron, anise, and fruit is very important, i am trying to develop something for the person that doesn't especially like anise but is fearless in general...

i need something to drizzle over my "half sinner / half saint"... something new to drink while i work...

[MaxH]

... St. George Spirits, who have ... produced the first Absinthe legally produced and sold in the US since the ban in 1912.

[Emphasis mine]

Not disputing St. George's contribution (and I've noted their public statements to be refreshingly matter-of-fact and demystifying, compared to some or most other new manufacturers; St. George is a widely respected, established artisanal distiller, not specializing in absinthe -- their distinctive single malt is well appreciated too). But I keep raising this point, even upthread, and haven't yet seen anyone address it searchingly: Is the assertion above actually true, other than outside the bottle?

What exactly changed, if anything, besides the TTB labeling rule? It now permits the "A word" on US labels. But USFDA's wormwood restrictions long allowed products made with wormwood but negligible thujone content. Absinthe-like liquor has sold legally in US for years, claiming such content.

[MaxH]

Whereas thujone has a 10ppm limitation [in the US]

Please note that USFDA's herbal thujone restriction singles out wormwood. That may be a residue of 19th-century French absinthe-ills myths, where thujone was widely and inaccurately scapegoated. Ironically, absinthe's lack of familiarity (therefore lack of demystification) sustained those myths after the ban, as does some recent online "tutorial" writing on absinthe.

What that writing doesn't say is how far science caught up with absinthe soon after the ban, demystifying it, obsoleting the myths. After the ban, "many" other herbs were found to contain thujone including common ancient cooking herbs (sage, tarragon). Thujone became seen in standard scientific writing as just another herb principle, toxic in gross overdose like all others. The other thujone-bearing herbs remain unrestricted by USFDA and carry its highest possible safety classification.

You get the same thujone dosage in a pinch of sage as in a serving of even thujone-rich absinthe. Pork sausages, Italian stews, pasta sauces and turkey stuffings do not have lurid illness mythologies.

[MaxH]

... Grand Wormwood (Artemesia absinthum).

Here's a small but very well supported note on naming, from my independent research of this topic.

A wide panorama of first-reference sources on absinthe and associated subjects (including medicinal plants, biochemistry, drinks and spirits, food) spanning the last century (Conrad's standard 1988 absinthe book included), all call A. absinthium by its main English name, "wormwood" (with secondary names such as "ajenjo" and "absinthium")). That also is the standard I've seen in general absinthe references for 35 years, other than occasional archaic or foreign quotations with "grand wormwood."

Yet for some reason, the Wormwood Society's FAQ page and (recently) Wikipedia's absinthe page -- which share authorship, I understand -- cite A. absinthium first as Grand(e) Wormwood. (Others by now may have innocently copied those recent online sources.) Against the volume of far more distinguished authoritative writing on the subject, that choice appears one of personal preference, even eccentric.

I've no quibble with private or hobby-enclave use of any favorite jargon. But newcomers would surely prefer to know, instead, the standard practice across all the past US literature.

(Eric, contact me privately if you want more information, I have far more on this than most people would ever want to hear about.)

[eje]

... St. George Spirits, who have ... produced the first Absinthe legally produced and sold in the US since the ban in 1912.

[Emphasis mine]

Not disputing St. George's contribution (and I've noted their public statements to be refreshingly matter-of-fact and demystifying, compared to some or most other new manufacturers; St. George is a widely respected, established artisanal distiller, not specializing in absinthe -- their distinctive single malt is well appreciated too). But I keep raising this point, even upthread, and haven't yet seen anyone address it searchingly: Is the assertion above actually true, other than outside the bottle?

What exactly changed, if anything, besides the TTB labeling rule? It now permits the "A word" on US labels. But USFDA's wormwood restrictions long allowed products made with wormwood but negligible thujone content. Absinthe-like liquor has sold legally in US for years, claiming such content.

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Interesting points as always.

While Absinthe-like products containing (presumably) negligable amounts of thujone, have been sold in the US, few have been legally produced in the US. To the best of my knowledge, Herbsaint is the only other Absinthe-like product currently legally distilled in the US*.

St. George is the first producer in the US to legally distill and produce a product containing Artemesia absinthum since the ban in 1912. Thus, I assume, their claim.

*edit - Forgot Charbay's well regarded Pastis. I've never tried it, as it is a bit pricey. Are there any others?

Edited December 28, 2007 by eje (log)

[MaxH]

St. George is the first producer in the US to legally distill and produce a product containing Artemesia absinthum ...

*edit - Forgot Charbay's well regarded Pastis.  I've never tried it, as it is a bit pricey.  Are there any others?

Thanks for emphasizing that, Eric -- it's true that it's the first such liquor I know of made as well as sold in the US.

From a consumer's standpoint I think it important to consider competing products if they are absinthes in all but name, and already widely available in the US. If so, they are pioneers in this market even if not in US manufacture. (Versinthe is another one, from the Liquoristerie de Provence and sold legally in the US since 2000 or so. Manufacturer claims to use wormwood herbs but meet the current low thujone requirement, like St. George, and others -- Jade Liqueurs, made outside US. Versinthe comes at least slightly sweetened, unlike classic or neo-absinthes where the user will often sweeten the drink when diluting with water.)

[jmfangio]

I just picked up a bottle of the St. George Absinthe Verte today...and so far all I can do is stare at the bottle. I think I'll have to cook up a nice dinner first, try it in the classic fashion, then flip a coin as to whether a Sazerac or an Atty is the first cocktail I make with it.

[jsmeeker]

I was in my local liquor store yesterday, and saw that they had Lucid absinthe in stock. About $55 or so a bottle. Ouch!!

I didn't pick it up, but at least I know it's available. Couldn't tell for sure if other bottles in that same section were true absinthes or not, as I'm not really familiar with the various brands of the real deal and the various substitutes that have always been there.

[Carolyn Tillie]

First bar sighting in San Francisco at Rose Pistola!

[MaxH]

That's a great picture of the absinthe fountain on the blog, Carloyn!

Have you been to that famous old New Orleans bar (I think it's the Old Absinthe House) that had fixtures installed around for customers' use before the ban? When I last visited, only absinthe substitutes were offered and they were unpopular. That was before the recent fashion (before Lucid, before all the absinthe Web sites). Late at night we tried a couple local drinks and the high point was an unsteady young woman from Abilene informing all that peanut butter would cure her hiccups, if she could just find some. To her patient and sober boyfriend: "Ah must have peahnut buttah, and SUGAH!"

For years you could pick up earlier-make absinthe glasses for a song, they were out of fashion. Thanks to a thoughtful friend, I have some, haven't used them for 5-6 years. Yet another example of the value (learned mainly with wine) of shopping for something before everyone else suddenly finds that they need it.

[BrooksNYC]

Couldn't tell for sure if  other bottles in that same section were true absinthes or not, as I'm not really familiar with the various brands of the real deal and the various substitutes that have always been there.

It's all moving very fast.

But as of December 31, 2007, the only absinthes approved for sale in the US are Lucid, Kübler, and St. George. Expect that to change soon!

On a slightly different tangent, fans of European absinthe might be interested in skimming this recent Wormwood Society thread...

Your Top Ten Commercial Absinthes

...in which members chime in on their favorite commercial absinthes in 2007. For anyone new to absinthe who's interested in sampling the best of the commercial crop, this thread can help you make solid, informed choices.

[jsmeeker]

Couldn't tell for sure if  other bottles in that same section were true absinthes or not, as I'm not really familiar with the various brands of the real deal and the various substitutes that have always been there.

It's all moving very fast.

But as of December 31, 2007, the only absinthes approved for sale in the US are Lucid, Kübler, and St. George. Expect that to change soon!

On a slightly different tangent, fans of European absinthe might be interested in skimming this recent Wormwood Society thread...

Your Top Ten Commercial Absinthes

...in which members chime in on their favorite commercial absinthes in 2007. For anyone new to absinthe who's interested in sampling the best of the commercial crop, this thread can help you make solid, informed choices.

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Thanks.. At least now I have additional brands to look for. I see your avatar has a special glass and the special spoon. Where can I get those? I saw that the Lucid site has spoons for sale, but not glasses. Of course, I am pretty much out of glasses at this point, so I would probably have to use a normal glass and figure out the proportions of absinthe to water.

[BrooksNYC]

These days, you'll find glasses, spoons, and fountains all over the web, but the Wormwood Society's favorite store is La Maison d'Absinthe, in New Orleans.

Great merchandise, great customer service, and it's a New Orleans store. Nice to be able to support the local economy.

Edited January 1, 2008 by BrooksNYC (log)

[BrooksNYC]

Of course, I am pretty much out of glasses at this point, so I would probably have to use a normal glass and figure out the proportions of absinthe to water.

A quick, demystifying word about proportions, since on any bottle of absinthe, the suggested water-to-absinthe ratio is intended as a general guide.

Dilute with water to your taste. Start by adding water very slowly, watching as the cloudy louche builds from the bottom of the glass. Initially, you'll have two layers — a cloudy layer on the bottom, and a clear layer on top — but eventually, the two layers will meet. The time to take a trial sip is the moment when the clear layer vanishes "into the clouds." It may be just right, or it may need more water.

Keep sipping and watering until you're happy. Under-diluted absinthe lacks nuance. Over-diluted absinthe is insipid.

High-proof absinthes, not surprisingly, take more water than lower-proof absinthes. Lucid is an oddball. For some reason, it's easy to over-dilute Lucid, so sip as you go.