Worst Wine Lists 2003

[Craig Camp]

Please place here your nominations for eGullets most frustrating restaurant wine lists of the year. It is not enough to just say who. It is important to say WHY!

A wine list is bad because lacks appropriateness for the cuisine -- not because of its size or even necessarily the prices.

Will there be a number one? Give me a break - do we look like Zagat?

[GordonCooks]

Pour Moi ? A bad list is better than no list. There's always cocktails.

[slacker]

Pour Moi ? A bad list is better than no list. There's always cocktails.

Wrong. A bad list makes my skin creep. I'd rather drink wee.

'A rather drab selection of samey, branded wines from the global wine lake.' What could be worse??

I quote myself.

[Mark Sommelier]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to update the list more than twice a year.

Any restaurant that thinks vintages are unimportant.

Any restaurant where more than half the selections are out of stock.

[Craig Camp]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

I'll second that.

It is amazing how much payola goes out in the supposedly controlled wine business. Most chains basically sell their placements to the highest bidder (many big stores are worse). This makes it a tough business for middle size producers with good wine, but small pocketbooks - or worse yet: ethics. Small wineries can forget it.

When I lived in Chicago there were all of these great ethnic restaurants where you could bring your own wine. As soon as they got successful they would want to put in a wine list and so got a license. No knowing anything about wine they would rely on some distributor sales rep. who would promptly put together a list of items they where being pressured on by their sales manager without any regard to how the wines matched with the food. I actually don't blame the sales reps. for this: the fault lies with their management who is only concerned about moving 'boxes' - as they so lovingly call wine.

[GordonCooks]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to update the list more than twice a year.

Any restaurant that thinks vintages are unimportant.

Any restaurant where more than half the selections are out of stock.

Is it Macaroni Grill? Did I win ?

[slacker]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Things are different in sunny but freezing Cornwall. I'm about to print the list of a much celebrated local Restaurant. With Vintages. Third update. No out of stocks. Ever.

AND I'm a local distributor.

I Think something might be lost in translation.

[Craig Camp]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Things are different in sunny but freezing Cornwall. I'm about to print the list of a much celebrated local Restaurant. With Vintages. Third update. No out of stocks. Ever.

AND I'm a local distributor.

I Think something might be lost in translation.

There are exceptions to every rule.

[slacker]

In Caterer and Hotelkeeper earlier this year, restaurants were being encouraged to use local hands-on supplier....

[GordonCooks]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Things are different in sunny but freezing Cornwall. I'm about to print the list of a much celebrated local Restaurant. With Vintages. Third update. No out of stocks. Ever.

AND I'm a local distributor.

I Think something might be lost in translation.

There are exceptions to every rule.

You forgot the word "few"..make that "very few"

[Mark Sommelier]

For those restaurateurs who care little about wine, local distributors here will let the salesman handle everything on the winelist. Of course, all the selections come from one house. Easy one stop shopping.

The winelist I manage has 600 selections. I use almost 20 different distributors. The range goes from $20 bottles of Muscadet to $2200 bottles of 1955 Chateau Latour. I am obsessed with accuracy on the list. I reprint pages 5 days a week. This includes additions, deletions and vintage or price changes. It takes 5 minutes to print updated pages and 15 minutes to put them in the 15 winelists I keep around. I never have to apologize about being out of stock. I find it worth the time and effort.

[Craig Camp]

For those restaurateurs who care little about wine, local distributors here will let the salesman handle everything on the winelist. Of course, all the selections come from one house.  Easy one stop shopping.

The winelist I manage has 600 selections. I use almost 20 different distributors. The range goes from $20 bottles of Muscadet to $2200 bottles of 1955 Chateau Latour. I am obsessed with accuracy on the list. I reprint pages 5 days a week. This includes additions, deletions and vintage or price changes. It takes 5 minutes to print updated pages and 15 minutes to put them in the 15 winelists I keep around. I never have to apologize about being out of stock. I find it worth the time and effort.

Mark just wondering - you have the logistics of the wine list under control. How do you handle:

20 different sales reps. and their supervisors.

The long list of local winery and importer reps. who want to see you.

Visiting winemakers and other VIP's.

It would seem that there would be precious little time left.

[Basildog]

As the exception to the rule (slacker is my wine guy) may i add that using a local guy who has a fantastic knowledge of wines, who you have known for 8 years, who knows your customers, and my lack of knowledge..does make sense to me.Blanket comments don't really help do they?

[Schneier]

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to learn about wine who lets a local distributor make and print their list.

Any restaurant that can't be bothered to update the list more than twice a year.

Any restaurant that thinks vintages are unimportant.

Any restaurant where more than half the selections are out of stock.

Is it Macaroni Grill? Did I win ?

Or Olive Garden.

[dlc]

When I lived in Chicago there were all of these great ethnic restaurants where you could bring your own wine. As soon as they got successful they would want to put in a wine list and so got a license. No knowing anything about wine they would rely on some distributor sales rep. who would promptly put together a list of items they where being pressured on by their sales manager without any regard to how the wines matched with the food. I actually don't blame the sales reps. for this: the fault lies with their management who is only concerned about moving 'boxes' - as they so lovingly call wine.

I had the same experience recently in Chicago. We hade lunch and dinner in 5 different venues and the wine lists were almost identical. These were not chains or restaurant groups either. It seems that the same consultant wrote all of these lists. Is this just a local thing or does this happen in all big markets?

[Varmint]

As the exception to the rule (slacker is my wine guy) may i add that using a local guy who has a fantastic knowledge of wines, who you have known for  8 years, who knows your customers, and my lack of knowledge..does make sense to me.Blanket comments don't really help do they?

I think those are great points, BD. I'd much rather have a restaurant use a knowledgable supplier who is trying to benefit the restaurant and the pairing of wine with food than a misguided or uninformed restaurant/chef who can't choose properly. In the US, however, I think the majority of suppliers do not pay as much attention as slacker does.

[Basildog]

I can see where the problems can arise from Varmint, i was just pissed, cos the posts seem to be aimed at my exact situation...Slacker is literally working on my new list , which starts Monday.Egullet has a large readership, and i just wanted to point out that blanket statments about using local wine merchants may carry at lot of weight here.

[Varmint]

Why don't you share that new list with us once it's completed? Then we can see how a small, but thoughtfully selected, wine list developed by a supplier can enhance the restaurant. Thanks, basildog and slacker!

[Basildog]

Will do

[GordonCooks]

As the exception to the rule (slacker is my wine guy) may i add that using a local guy who has a fantastic knowledge of wines, who you have known for  8 years, who knows your customers, and my lack of knowledge..does make sense to me.

Blanket comments don't really help do they?

Not if they're inaccurate - You're blessed to have a valuable "partner" in your business. But for every gem (slacker) you show me, I'll show you 20 pieces of coal.

Edited October 24, 2003 by GordonCooks (log)

[slacker]

......and what's more, I'll have my worked picked to bits by scavenging ravens, and then it'll be deleted.

[Craig Camp]

I can see where the problems can arise from Varmint, i was just pissed, cos the posts seem to be aimed at my exact situation...Slacker is literally working on my new list , which starts Monday.Egullet has a large readership, and i just wanted to point out that blanket statments about using local wine merchants may carry at lot of weight here.

I would not equate a restaurant owner forming a relationship of trust with a true wine professional and restaurant chains that make placements based only on marketing dollars or because they are just to cheap to buy their own wine list covers.

[Craig Camp]

......and what's more, I'll have my worked picked to bits by scavenging ravens, and then it'll be deleted.

...the glamorous life of a wine salesperson.

[Basildog]

......and what's more, I'll have my worked picked to bits by scavenging ravens, and then it'll be deleted.

HAHAHAHA

[vengroff]

Some additional ways a list can be bad:

1. It's a list that nobody on the staff understands, so they can't answer any questions you might have.

2. It's a list of high volume brand names that the proprieter hopes will catch your eye because you walk past big displays of them at the supermarket every week.

3. It lists WS or Parker ratings that increase in proportion to the price of the bottle. Hmmm, should we spend the extra $10 for a 94 point Merlot instead of a 92 point Cab Sauv?