Vancouver, BC, and Western Canada Burger Club

[gerald]

For the record, this is the second go 'round for the "medium rare burger" dilemna.  HERE is the first time from January 05.  Pretty much the same conclusions drawn ... no specific law against it, but very few seem to do it. 

Can somebody explain why there would be a concern over a medium rare burger, but NOT steak tartare?  I wouldn't have either at McD's, but Nu (where I had an awesome tartare on Sunday) just try and keep me away.  Common sense right?

A.

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The general notion is that tartare is hand cut and ground from a "better" cut of meat and the reality is that in most cases that meat is free of bacteria. However, as most ground beef is "older" in terms of the grinding process, their can be a higher incidence.

put simply, you probably would not have steak tartare if the steak was ground, frozen for a year thawed and then mixed, which could be the case unless you know where the beef is from.

last but not least heating activates the bacteria and growth is exponentially increased.

[Ling]

we try to make sure that all of our burgers are pink, juices run clear cooked to 160 degrees, unfortunately you would not believe how many of those burgers come back, further when you try to educate the customer they gloss over thinking we are trying to kill them. 

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That's really too bad. Could I request to have my burger done medium or medium-rare at Vera's? I had a burger at the Davie location last week and it was cooked all the way through, and dry.

[gerald]

we try to make sure that all of our burgers are pink, juices run clear cooked to 160 degrees, unfortunately you would not believe how many of those burgers come back, further when you try to educate the customer they gloss over thinking we are trying to kill them. 

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That's really too bad. Could I request to have my burger done medium or medium-rare at Vera's? I had a burger at the Davie location last week and it was cooked all the way through, and dry.

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if you ask for a burger medium, it is not a problem, mid rare could be. I'm sorry about the doneness, if you could tell me the day and time that would be great, I have been hitting my staff pretty hard about cooking times. I have had mystery shoppers in all the stores in the last week to specifically deal with the cook times.

[Ling]

^ I answered your questions in a PM. I think it's wonderful that you're showing initiative in making sure your staff is cooking the patties to your specifications.

My (very brief, one or two paragraph) review of Vera's isn't out yet, but the gist of it is:

-good Kaiser bun (fresh)

-fresh toppings

-burger held together well when I was eating it

-not too much bun for the amount of meat (good ratio)

-patty cooked all the way through, dry

ETA: And also, like I said in my PM--no apologizes necessary. I paid for a burger, and got one. It's not your fault it wasn't cooked the way I prefer it to be cooked. I mentioned in my review that I thought about ordering the burger "medium" or "medium rare", but thought I'd just let the cook do it without my request, so I'd get what I'd assume is the "typical doneness" at Vera's.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Ling (log)

[eatvancouver]

the review is up now.

and what's this business about apologies? i don't recall being offered one.

[gerald]

the review is up now.

and what's this business about apologies?  i don't recall being offered one.

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nor do I

[Keith Talent]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet and i really don't feel like flipping through al the pages and looking, but the BEST burgers has to be from "The Rodeo Drive in" in Surrey.

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You could probably squeeze the naugehyde seating surfaces in the place and extract enough bio-diesel to run your Prius between Rodeo Burger and Davixd Suzuki's house until the spotted owls come home to roost. That place was horrid.

Edited April 25, 2006 by Keith Talent (log)

[shelora]

Does the threat of mad cow disease ever shimmer across your mind while eating a juicy burger made to your specifications?

[nwyles]

Does the threat of mad cow disease ever shimmer across your mind while eating a juicy burger made to your specifications?

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Nope.

[Ling]

^The risk of mad cow disease lies in the brain and spine of an infected cow, not the meat, isn't that correct? So if I were eating cow brain and scrambled eggs at a diner in the States (I don't think they serve that up here), then I could be at risk.

[stovetop]

In Canada no animal that is infected has ever made it to market- we have some of the best systems in the works and the posibilty of eating mad cow is less then getting killed in your car- We are driving today are we not??

steve

[stovetop]

i can certainly understand if customers didn't ask for their burger to be medium in the first place, that they would send it back to be cooked some more. but if a customer requests a medium burger, they should be able to get one -- especially if your meat is ground fresh and you know where it comes from.

i'll sign anything to get a medium burger.

I started my career in Alberta (79) and have been working in the BC market off and on since the 90’s and the option of doneness in that market ( Vancouver) was not there then and it is not here now. In the Edmonton Market there is way more forgiveness in regards to doneness. The one thing that differentiates in the Van market and lets say Edmonton or Calgary is that it is more of a percentage of places that make their own burgers in Alberta then not. In BC SYSCO and Gordon foods are mostly responsible for product on the menu and I would not eat anything they make under done.

Alberta has better beef products and does a better job supporting the Canadian beef industry- In BC we would sell our grandmother to save 50 cents a pound. Aussie beef and Argentina beef is flooding the market- both retail and wholesale. Chefs do not seem to be that concerned to differentiate products in the market and Sysco does not care if they support Canadian.

The whole well-done burger thing seems to be part of the kitchen culture and I have been bombarded with it ever since I arrived In BC in early nineties. It seems to be part of the culture.

The Alberta burger culture seems to be more fresh burgers then not and does not have that huge stigma attached to serving not well done burgers.

steve

[fud]

^The risk of mad cow disease lies in the brain and spine of an infected cow, not the meat, isn't that correct? So if I were eating cow brain and scrambled eggs at a diner in the States (I don't think they serve that up here), then I could be at risk.

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In addition to this I thought BSE didn't go away with cooking (no matter how long). It's a problem with the DNA(RNA?) in the proteins or something.

Rare or cooked if you're exposed to it, you're going to be equally screwed.

[butter]

This past Sunday I raced from visiting my friend in Ladner to Burnaby to make it to burger club at Burgers Etc. by 6 p.m. only to find I got the date mixed up. The staff were sympathetic and because I was so hungry I decided to stay and eat a burger alone which I didn't mind as then I could really concentrate on the burger. I was so hungry though that even a McD's would have tasted great. Of course, this opinion could be entirely different this coming Sunday.

I think you will all be happy with the meat to bun ratio. The bun possibly is one of the best I've had although the lid was too cold. I had the basic burger with lettuce, tomato, hold the onions, ketchup, and mayo. Pickle comes on top which I put inside. Meat tasted like meat and slightly seasoned. Lettuce and tomato were fresh and crisp. When biting into it, juice ran down my hand so I think the meat was done to an agreeable level of "mythical" legislation. A bit dry around the edges though. Looking inside, the patty was charred maybe a little too much, but I didn't mind as I like that bitter charcoal flavour. If only better tomatoes could be found and add some mustard I think in its nakedness this is a really good burger.

Also had the fries. They were familiar...possibly Sysco brand that come in brown bags in a white and blue box. Regardless of the rep Sysco has, I think these fries are really good.

Menu looks interesting too with some pulled pork and brisket items.

[fud]

This past Sunday I raced from visiting my friend in Ladner to Burnaby to make it to burger club at Burgers Etc. by 6 p.m. only to find I got the date mixed up. The staff were sympathetic and because I was so hungry I decided to stay and eat a burger alone which I didn't mind as then I could really concentrate on the burger. I was so hungry though that even a McD's would have tasted great. Of course, this opinion could be entirely different this coming Sunday.

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Despite the state of mind issue (famished = anything is good) I think this will be a nice baseline test of the burgers and now you can put the hunger matter in check this sunday!

[fud]

*** BURGER PORN ALERT ***

Don't look if you're hungry.

Great "meat" (oh and good meet too). So nice to see so many burger lovers.

The patty was a perfect medium-rare and pink inside. Juicy and soft. The bun was nicely toasted on the bottom and still cool on top and the right springy bready consistency.

I'm going back for sure. Thanks to Pez for organizing. Can't wait for the next one.

P.S. Arne, here's the address of the Witch Pub [MAP]

<hint> <hint>

Edited May 1, 2006 by fud (log)

[butter]

Burger better than last week. Slight pink to the patty and I added mustard. The only negative comment: the lid was cold again. Did anyone ask where the buns come from?

[canucklehead]

I went to the most interesting and odd diner today. It sits atop the Northern Building Supplies on Kent St (between Knight St and Victoria St) - which is this crazy rambling lumber land type place that looks like it going to collapse.

The Tim Lucy Cafe (TLC - gettit?) was recommended to me by a couple of teenaged sons of friends on mine. There are no straight lines in the dining room - the floors sag to the point of collapse and the walls are decorated with odd black & white movie photo's. The short order cook/owner has the worst wig on ever - but seems like a super nice guy - he asked me to sign the guest book on the way out. Beside it is this weird junk/second hand/shabby chic store called "Wannabee's" - it looks like some crazy boudoir.

The recommendation was for their burgers. I had the bacon/cheeseburger - the pattty was hand made, the bacon crisp, and the cheddar decent. The fries were pure Sysco - that were very very crispy - too crispy really. The burger was surprisingly good - the bun was this weird rosemary focaccia thing - not good - and the next time I will asked for it to be toasted.

The patty was suprisingly pink - and that end of the meal there was satisfying pool of burger juice on the plate.

Not a burger worth driving across town for - but damned if I wasn't charmed by the place.

[fud]

Very Cool Canucklehead!

I'm all about ambience/environment too. We discovered a crazy breakfast place in the middle of industrial richmond with the same kind of feel. Pretty decent food too.

Might need to hunt this one down.

[thoughtbox]

Whoa...this thread is dead. Do we have any new places to try?

[inanimate]

It's been a while since I've seen the burger thread flying around, but I thought I'd bring them up again since I just encountered Burgers Etc today for the first time.

Found on hastings just by gilmore, I had heard good things about their burgers. What really surprised me though was the quality of their bbq. Their pulled pork and beef ribs were great. The ribs in particular were very tender and tasty. The baked beans were meaty and great as were the fries and potato salad.

The burger we had 'plain' except for the addition of a fried egg and the burger was very good. Definitely Moderne Burger-like in execution, particulary with the style of bun and default toppings, and also the very slightly seasoned beef patty. Nothing really too exciting about it, but it's well prepared.

Other burgers that have made a big impact on me lately include the Hamilton Street Grill burger (which I think is actually my favourite thing on the menu now) due to the awesome beef patty which is massive, juicy, and packed with flavor, but also due to the carmelized onions and the great choice of cheese and bacon in there. The portuguese bun also helps, but the downside is that I wish it came with thin cut white flesh potato fries. The yellow potato fries are too sweet for my tastes, but I've generally been fine with getting a split order of yam fries and salad.

It's been a while since I've gotten a turkey burger in me from moderne which for a long time was (maybe still is?) my favourite burger in the city. I'm always hoping they'll do something to liven up the beef burger, but maybe some people love the taste of unseasoned beef.

So... what's news in burgers these days?