Sunday dinner in Paris

[Beth]

Hello all .. I need your help. I’m going to Paris next weekend (Sept 12-15) to watch my brother’s University graduation ceremony at Versailles(!) My 75 year old father and his wife are also making the long trip from New Zealand and I’m trying very hard to arrange a very special weekend for them. I’ve been organizing dinner reservations and I still need to find something for Sunday night. I’ve spent hours and hours - probably more time than I will actually spend in the Paris! - combing the internet/message boards for restaurant information and I’m feeling quite overwhelmed .. it’s my first trip to Paris. I’ve found that most of the information out there pertains to the meal and not so much the ambience. My main hope (almost secondary to the meal ..gasp!) is to find a place that has a quiet and elegant, un-stuffy atmosphere. A place where my father can relax and actually hear the conversation across the table.

While I’m willing to spend 100 Euros pp for this dinner, it probably isn't necessary. L’Astrance seemed absolutely perfect (and John Whitings review and photo sealed it for me) .. until I phoned them and was told that they are now closed on weekends. Such a shame. For Friday I have picked L’Excuse in the 4th because of review comments such as “quiet and comfortable”, “elegant décor”, “impeccable cuisine”, “friendly and delicate service” etc. Sounds like just what I’m looking for – I hope so. On Saturday night we’re going to Café Marly - my brother’s pick for graduation night .. he’s hoping to sit on the terrace.

But what to do about Sunday? Is Brasserie Balzar what I’m looking for? As John Whiting says: “solid, respectable, unpretentious, ticking over comfortably in an unostentatious manner” - sounds like it will work (Daniel Young also recommends it for a Sunday dinner). Or is it a noisy and bustling place? While the idea of going to a traditional Paris Brasserie is fun I’m not sure that my father will appreciate the reality. I was thinking of saving “noisy and bustling” for lunch and doing “calm and elegant” for dinner!! Café Flore was another possibility, but probably a better lunch option.

If anyone has any suggestions I would be so very grateful. I know the pickings are slim on Sunday but I’m not picky about the arrondissement. Help!

Beth

[mikeycook]

Jules Verne, the restaurant in the Eiffel Tower (123m up), is open on Sundays, has one Michelin star, is surprisingly un-touristy, and has an unbeatable view (even for someone who has been a number of times, seeing the sun set over Paris is a great experience). It will probably meet your price limit per person, but is not expensive by Paris standards (certainly not for restaurants with Michelin stars.)

[fresh_a]

Jules Verne, the restaurant in the Eiffel Tower (123m up), is open on Sundays, has one Michelin star, is surprisingly un-touristy, and has an unbeatable view (even for someone who has been a number of times, seeing the sun set over Paris is a great experience).  It will probably meet your price limit per person, but is not expensive by Paris standards (certainly not for restaurants with Michelin stars.)

Surprisingly untouristy?!?! You must be joking! This establishment wins top prize for the most touristy restaurant in Paris! Have you actually been there?!?

Although I admit much of this is my fault, being responsable for sending them more clients than about anyone else in Paris, in a very consistent manner!

[edit: removed extraneous code --bux]

Edited September 6, 2003 by Bux (log)

[Bux]

The 2002 Michelin shows a 110 euro menu at dinner and a la carte prices from about 95 euros without wine or coffee. Lunch however, could be had for 49 euros. I've never been there.

Balzar is okay for simple brasserie food. It's not so bustling or noisy, but it's certain not quiet either and I don't find it elegant.

It's been quite a few years since we've been to Philippe Dutourbe, 8 r. Nicolas Charlet in the 15th arr. It was rather quiet, a little elegant and an incredible bargain. 37 euros for a prix fixe menu as of last year. Even with wine, you won't come near your 100 euro limit. The one problem is that there's but one five course menu with no choices.

I've also liked les Grandes Marches, 6 pl. Bastille, in the 12th arr. It's a modern version of a brasserie and rather upscale with a contemporary decor that if not elegant, is at least quite chic and well done, and it offered far more contemporary food than normally found in a brasserie. Three courses without drinks should run about 50-60 euros.

[pirate]

Isn't Grand Marches part of that "Flo" chain that now owns Balzar?

[mikeycook]

Jules Verne, the restaurant in the Eiffel Tower (123m up), is open on Sundays, has one Michelin star, is surprisingly un-touristy, and has an unbeatable view (even for someone who has been a number of times, seeing the sun set over Paris is a great experience).  It will probably meet your price limit per person, but is not expensive by Paris standards (certainly not for restaurants with Michelin stars.)

Surprisingly untouristy?!?! You must be joking! This establishment wins top prize for the most touristy restaurant in Paris! Have you actually been there?!?

Although I admit much of this is my fault, being responsable for sending them more clients than about anyone else in Paris, in a very consistent manner!

[edit: removed extraneous code --bux]

Yes, in fact I was there in July.

Of course, the Eiffel Tower is touristy (if your point is that it is the most touristy because of where it is, I can't argue with that) and, yes, you can look down from near the elevator and see those who are headed to the observation deck, but I was expecting something other than a top quality meal (ok, Lucas Carton and Pierre Gagnaire it is not, but then again it is more in line with U.S. expensive than Paris expensive.) We had the tasting menu and I was surprised how good it was. I will grant you that the ride up the private elevator is a bit touristy, but I found it surprisingly not so when we actually got into the restaurant. And it was pretty quiet and a good place for conversation (I went with my wife and mother-in-law). I would not recommend it as the first place to go if you are a dedicated foodie, but it offers a lot in terms of spectacle, view, and the food is solid. Seeing darkness fall over Paris was one of the best experiences I have had in my dozen or so trips. Particularly for someone who has never been to Paris or only been once, I would recommend it (unless they suffer vertigo or fear of heights.)

Now, perhaps my preconception of the place was even worse than it should have been (I was sort of picturing the scene at the Eiffel Tower in Nat'l Lampoon's European Vacation, replete with french flags in the food).

It sounds like you have recommended them extensively in the past. Have you had a falling out? What is it about it that you would now not recommend?

The 2002 Michelin shows a 110 euro menu at dinner and a la carte prices from about 95 euros without wine or coffee. Lunch however, could be had for 49 euros.

I will also admit it will test the bounds of your stated budget.

Edited September 6, 2003 by mikeycook (log)

[Bux]

Isn't Grand Marches part of that "Flo" chain that now owns Balzar?

It is. I'm also far less upset at how the Flo chain is running its brasseries than some people are. Things are never what they used to be, and these places are not the place to go for great food, but they are reliable for raw seafood platters (no raw oysters, etc at Balzar though) and simple brasserie food. If nothing else, they've preserved some wonderful interiors. Of course as with anything, the more you knew it in the old days, the less you like it now. I suspect that would be true even if these places were independently owned, and I don't return to la Coupole, because it's the brasserie I knew so well in the sixties.

I Like Vaudeville in the 2nd arrondisement with it's wonderful marble interior.

Les Grandes Marches, is an exception in many ways. Most of all it's not a preservation of anything in either terms of interior or food. Here's what I wrote on my web page about two years ago.

Les Grandes Marches 

6, place Bastille 

75012 Paris 

Phone:  01 43 42 90 32 

Metro: Bastille 

  

With few places open on Sunday, we fell back on a brasserie, but decided we'd reserve a table at the Flo group's contemporary version, Les Grandes Marches, adjacent to the Bastille Opera. Lunch turned out to be well worth recommending. We were directed upstairs (the ground floor was undergoing renovation) to a bright and contemporary space. We all had fish and seafood. Most of it was simply prepared, and all of it was excellent. Neither the food nor the décor should come as a surprise if you know that Christian Constant, whose restaurant Le Violon d'Ingres has two Michelin stars, is the consulting chef and Pritzker Architecture Prize Laureate Christian de Portzamparc and his wife, Elizabeth, are the designers. There's a decent menu for 200 francs and a good à la carte selection for a bit more.

[John Whiting]

Bux, I think it's fair to suggest, as you do, that the Flo chain restaurants are probably in better shape than if they had remained independent -- or, even more likely, sunk without a trace. I used to enjoy La Procope when it was still a tatty student hangout -- dirt cheap, threadbare grandeur. Now it's tarted up and full of tourists, and the food is rather expensive. But it is edible; in the old days it was school cafeteria standard.

Edit: If the Flo chain were in London, I (and a lot of others) would be raving about its excellence.

Edited September 7, 2003 by John Whiting (log)

[pirate]

The quality/price ratio at the Flo restaurants is good to very good. When I have my French editors and their wives to dinner I usually choose La Coupole. The ambiance of La Coupole is very Parisian and especially pleasing and flattering to women. I've never had an exceptional dish there except for one. The French have created an elegant version of rice pudding called riz a l'Imperatrice (please pardon the lack of accents). For a number of years I've ordered it when possible. In fact, I even ordered it for the special menu of a dinner party I gave at the legendary Perino's in Los Angeles one time. Not very sucessful. However lunching at La Coupole one day it was on the menu and it was correctly made (Ali Bab would have approved), spectacularly good, never bettered and still fondly remembered.

[fresh_a]

I was just disputing the statement that the Jules Verne is "surprisingly untouristy" which it isn't. I work in the luxury hotel business, so I'm obliged to find tables there, although I try to disuade people from going there as much as possible...because it is very touristy.

[OAKGLEN]

Your parents would likely enjoy Goumard, 9 rue duphot, in the 1st. Tables are widely spaced, service is attentive and they have excellent seafood specialties. This one star may stretch your budget a bit, but with a reasonable bottle of wine you can do it for close to 100 pp. JP

[Bux]

Oh well, I suppose I will have to go back to la Coupole as well. I have a memory of a meal on a Sunday in the sixties that is such a perfect picture, that I don't want it to change. We had a table in the rear, on a raised platform--I believe. As I recall the room was divided into brasserie and restaurant or cafe and brassrie, i.e. half of the room had tables with white tablecloths--the other half had bare tables. We had a commanding view of the other tables. At one table in clear line of sight, we had a young, very chic, very BCBG couple in elegant but casual dress dining on a plateau de fruits der mer on a night when their favorite places would be closed. In another direct was a elderly couple in their not very chic, but apparenly Sunday best, enjoying what appeared to be a special occasion. This democracy of the brasserie is what I think Baltahzar recreates in New York. Even Balzar, which I thought was overrun with English speaking tourists, still attracted a Parisian clientele of all sorts.

I offer recommedations for the Flo brasseries with some hesitency as I find so many deplore the whole range of them. I'm glad to find a few knowledgeable diners who appreciate them for what they are in the context of their competition and not in relation to what they might be or might have been.

[John Whiting]

Even at Terminus Nord opposite Gare du Nord -- the ultimate in transient clientelle -- we've eaten very acceptably, the last time only a few weeks ago. You can tell them when you must leave to catch your train and they'll keep to schedule, warning you if you've ordered something that would take too long. And all done pleasantly.

[Beth]

Well thank you all for your suggestions. Don’t stop! This is my first time on a message board and I can’t believe the generosity of people willing to take the time to try and make my trip a success. Hope I didn’t spark up a row over Jules Verne, though!

"And it was pretty quiet and a good place for conversation (I went with my wife and mother-in-law). I would not recommend it as the first place to go if you are a dedicated foodie, but it offers a lot in terms of spectacle, view, and the food is solid. Seeing darkness fall over Paris was one of the best experiences I have had in my dozen or so trips." .. I can't figure figure out how to quote mikeycook!!

It does sound like it might be a good place to try – expensive but safe (especially when feeling responsible for family members). My father is not a dedicated foodie .. and I’m not sure that he would notice if a place was a bit “touristy” either. It will test my budget but I’m a sucker for a nice view. We might just be able to catch sunset too. On the other hand, my brother might disagree with the Jules Verne idea because of the touristy aspect. It’s so hard to try and accommodate everyone’s tastes. At least all of this information will help me when I return to Paris next July with my husband. Ah, but then it will be romance I’ll be looking for …

Philippe Detourbe appears to be closed Sunday and it seems to be getting some sketchy reviews (though, if you search long and hard enough online you can find a sketchy review about any place!). Gourmand looks very nice, but it looks like the menu is all seafood? .. which we all like but it would be nice to have other menu options.

It seems, from all your comments that if we do end up at Balzar it will not be a "bad" choice .. or any of the Flo group for that matter. As pirate says, “good to very good quality/price range” is fine by me. And I love how you can actually see all their restaurants on their website: flobrasseries.com – you can make reservations there too. Very easy and handy. I was scared off La Coupole though because of it’s size – a warehouse full of 450 people? ! Sounds like chaos! But fantastic people watching I’m sure.

[tighe]

This past Sunday I had dinner at a place called La Chaumiere in the 13th. The food and ambiance were both quite nice, but my only reservation in recommneding it would be that the service was pretty shaky, at least by Paris standards.

One resource you may want to check out is cityvox.com. They have the best search capabilities for restaurants in Paris that I found, including searching for restaurants open on Sundays.

Edited September 10, 2003 by tighe (log)

[saycheese]

I am also looking for a restaurant for dinner in Paris on a Sunday night, actually this coming Sunday, without parents, probably for a late-ish meal -- say around 9:30. Les Grandes Marches sounded good. Does anyone know if Mon Vieil Ami is open late? Other places that I've read about on eGullet, but don't know if they are open on Sundays are: L'Absinthe, l'Ardoise, l'Ourcine, Le Clos des Gourmets, Au C'Amelot, Seize au Seize and Pinxo. I'd especially welcome any suggestions in or near the 6th arrondissement. Thanks.

[Louisa Chu]

Mon Viel Ami does have a second seating at 21:30. Off your list I know Clos des Gourmets is closed on weekends.

[OAKGLEN]

L'Ardoise will probably be open, and now that Michelin has dropped them totally you should not have a problem being seated immediately, especially for a late dinner. If you want to stay in the 6th arr., Fish La Boissonnerie and Mediterranee are open, as well as Chez Maitre Paul and the usual group of brasseries/cafes like Balzar, Flore and Deux Magots. JP

[menton1]

Sunday night is of course, limited; but in the 5th there is a terrific restaurant, La Rôtisserie de Beaujolais, right on the Seine with the same ownership as Tour d'Argent, M. Terrail. (Much less expensive) Traditional Gallic stuff, beautifully prepared, great service, and stomping ground for many French celebrities as well (signed photos on the walls). I believe it's open Sundays until 10:30

La Rôtisserie de Beaujolais

19 quai de la Tournelle

Paris 5th

01 43 54 17 47

[John Talbott]

I'd pick L'Oursine first rather than the others because you can talk more easily and the food is great;

L'Absinthe was horrible this week, l'Ardoise is crowded, l think Le Clos des Gourmets has deteriorated since it opened and gotten more expensive, Au C'Amelot remains good and I've never eaten at Pinxo. Petite Pontoise and Reminet are also open Sunday nites as is the Bistrot du Dome, which are more crowded than L'Oursine. Les Grandes Marches is OK if you're going to or coming from the Opera Bastille, otherwise I wouldn't go out of my way.

[kerriar]

For Sunday evenings, a reliable mid-price option is Le Coupe Chou in the 5th, near Le Sorbonne. An intial recommendation came from a Parisian colleague and I've since been there several times. The food is classic and correct bistro cooking - confit de canard, boeuf bourguignon etc. A bit unadventurous for some but quality is dependable.

The crowd is usually local middle class with a few tourists - athmosphere is what most would in a Paris restaurant of this style. You can look at their website http://www.lecoupechou.com/ which is only in French. With some decent wine, you should not need to spend more than €50 - €60 per head. For Sunday night, I'd advise booking. Enjoy

[Busboy]

I'd pick L'Oursine first rather than the others because you can talk more easily and the food is great;

L'Absinthe was horrible this week, l'Ardoise is crowded, l think Le Clos des Gourmets has deteriorated since it opened and gotten more expensive, Au C'Amelot remains good and I've never eaten at Pinxo. Petite Pontoise and Reminet are also open Sunday nites as is the Bistrot du Dome, which are more crowded than L'Oursine. Les Grandes Marches is OK if you're going to or coming from the Opera Bastille, otherwise I wouldn't go out of my way.

sadly, I haven't had the opportunity to track Clos des Gourmets trajectory since it opened, but it if used to be better and less expensive than it was when I ate there last month, it must have been truly wonderful.

At any rate, the point is moot for this discussion as the matchbooks I brought back from the place announce that it is "ferme dimanche et lundi," closed Sunday and Monday.

[John Talbott]

Just a followup on Les Grandes Marches; Francois Simon reviewed it in the Business supplement of Le Figaro Monday April 26th and noted that it wasn't trying to be "gastronomique," and that while ringing no bells, was acceptable. He says that on Sunday nights it's a melange of folks: solitary beauties, sad lovers, women with each other, male pairs, a "groupe essoré" (tough to translate).

[Merseymike]

Hi.

We are heading to Paris soon - thinking about either Le pamphlet, Aux Lyonnais or Le Dome du Marais for the Saturday night.

Sunday night is less easy. Most places seem to be shut - Gourmard is one possibility, or L'Ambassade d'Auvergne.

Any recommendations? We are staying in the Marais.

[John Talbott]

Hi.

We are heading to Paris soon - thinking about either Le pamphlet, Aux Lyonnais or Le Dome du Marais for the Saturday night.

Sunday night is less easy. Most places seem to be shut - Gourmard is one possibility, or L'Ambassade d'Auvergne.

Any recommendations? We are staying in the Marais.

←

I'd suggest you exhaust our Search engine first since I know we've been down this path a couple of times before. If you come up dry, I'm sure we can help.

A couple of ideas though - Pinxo, Reminet, Viel Ami + Drouant are all open then. I like them all. But do search too.