Q&A -- Knife Maintenance and Sharpening

[DerekW]

From your images it appears that Kershaw have slightly narrowed the included angle and left a fair amount of tooth. If you want mirror finish then you can get it by using a finer abrasive, and maintain the angle they have set. A commercial sharpening service whould be able to do pretty much whatever you ask for.

As Shalmanese says, the degree of polish on your edges is a personal preference thing [although I'd suggest that the rougher edge is better for getting a bite on smooth soft shiny things such as tomatoes, and the mirror finish works better in meat. Personal preference

FWIW, my Watanbe santoku arrived with a mirror polished edge, and I keep it that way, doing touchup on a leather strop with green compound. The blade is so fine compared to my German knives that it deals with soft stuff without needing 'tooth'.

[Chad]

I believe DerekW hit the nail on the head. Your knives were hand sharpened to a thinner than factory edge. They should cut like crazy. The core of the Shun knives is VG-10, one of my favorite kitchen steels. I like it because even at high polish levels it has a toothy feel when you're slicing. I'd suspect that the factory edge is finished on some sort of buffing wheel to give it more store appeal. Or the polished edge might just be the result of the final buff & polish that the knives get before being boxed up. Either way, I don't think the polished edge you had on the original set was due to a higher level of sharpening. I suspect it was mainly asthetic. So the slightly coarser looking edge should not only be fine but will probably outcut the standard factory edge. This is all just speculation on my part -- there's no way to tell for sure without handling the knives and feeling the edge -- but I'm pretty confident that this is the case.

Let’s assume both bevels were polished from the factory on my final set as in the first image, and I used the knives for a few months. After they became slightly dull, I decided to either sharpen them myself with the Sypderco product, or send them in for sharpening. After the sharpening, would the knives polished bevel appear the same as the second image, or would it remain polished? Also are there any negative side effects to the way this final set came compared to if they were never sharpened again by a sharpener? I recall speaking to Kershaw Shun regarding sharpening prior to this incident and they explained that these knives need an angle between 16-18 degree’s. I am assuming this is what my final set was sharpened at, but I have read elsewhere that 15 degrees is the general angle at which Japanese knives are sharpened at.

The level of polish on the bevel is dependent on the fineness of the final abrasive you use to sharpen the knives. A coarser abrasive will leave a coarser scratch pattern. A finer abrasive will leave a finer scratch pattern. If you do indeed use the Spyderco Sharpmaker, the preset 15 degree angle will be just about perfect, I believe. You'll need to use the Magic Marker Trick to be sure. The gray stones will re-establish the edge if you need to and the white stones will put a nicely polished finish on the edge.

Hope this helps.

Chad

[mr.baconhead]

I have a small 6" Wustrof stainless bone cleaver - any suggestions for the sharpening angle I should use? I expect to use it for pork rib and chicken bones....

[Chad]

I have a small 6" Wustrof stainless bone cleaver - any suggestions for the sharpening angle I should use? I expect to use it for pork rib and chicken bones....

←

Hmm, let's work the variables. It's a Wusthof, so that most likely means X50CrMo15 steel. Broken down, that works out to 0.5% Carbon (X), approximately 14% Chromium (Cr) and .5-1% molybdenum. It's a good kitchen steel -- high carbon (but just barely), highly stain resistant and with good carbide formers. On the downside, most Solingen manufacturers tend to treat their steel to 54-56HRC (Rockwell C hardness). This isn't bad, but it ain't great either. It is softer than I like. It is easier to sharpen at home, but doesn't hold its edge as well as harder steels. On the other hand, in a cleaver, toughness is more important than hardness. A little rolling of the edge is infinitely preferable to chipping.

As for edge angles, the folks in Solingen tend to be very, very conservative. They set chef's knives at 20 degrees per side (which is about right for a splitting axe) and cleavers even more obtuse. Even with 54-56HRC steel you can go down to 10-12 degrees per side on a chef's knife with a vast improvement in performance with a negligible impact on maintenance. A cleaver (I'm estimating here, bear with me) can easily be set at 20 degrees per side or even steeper before needing an unacceptable level of maintenance. And, oddly enough, the easiest thing to do is to set a too-steep angle and then back off from there. If you start out obtuse and work downward, you may never find how sharp/acute you can get the edge angles. The real trick is to set an angle that is slightly too acute then back off a degree or two until it is stable in repeated use. So try starting at 15-18 degrees per side and see how that works for you. If you see chipping, indentation or impaction, change the edge angle to 18-20 degrees per side. It doesn't take more than a couple of minutes on something like an EdgePro, a little more on other systems.

If you're doing this by hand on benchstones, just remember, a 1 degree angle subtends an arc of 1 unit at a radius of 60 units. The 1-in-60 rule is close enough for many purposes, particularly sharpening at low angles. The math is surprisingly easy. Divide your blade width by 60 to get 1 degree of angle lift. So, for a chef's knife 1.5 inches wide you'd divide 1.5 by 60 units for .025 as 1 degree of back edge lift. As 1 degree is impossible to hand hold and undesirable for an edge angle, go for a more realistic angle. So 5x.025 =.125 (1/8") for a 5 degree angle, .25 (1/4") for a 10 degree angle or 3/8" for a 15 degree angle.

How wide is your cleaver? If the blade width is 3" the math would work out to .05 for 1 degree of spine lift, .25 (or 1/4") for 5 degrees of spine lift or .5 or 1/2" for 10 of spine lift per side for a 20 degree included angle. For 20 degrees per side, lift the spine 1" off the stone

There ya have it, basic instructions for putting any level of edge on any knife or cleaver.

Hope this helps,

Chad

edit: metallurgy correction

Edited April 26, 2006 by Chad (log)

[mr.baconhead]

Chad - thanks for the cleaver info.

OT, I just received my EdgePro Apex, and the instructions caution against sharpening kitchen knives at 15 deg. because the edge would be too delicate. It suggests 18 deg....

Another OT - out of curiosity, I just measured the angles on the Japanese knives that I bought 20 yrs. ago, made by Aritsugu. The sashimi measures 11 1/2 deg., and the deba measures 18 1/2 deg. As these are single bevel blades, does this really translate as 5+ and 9+ degs. per side if they were double bevel blades?

Phil

[Chad]

Chad - thanks for the cleaver info.

OT, I just received my EdgePro Apex, and the instructions caution against sharpening kitchen knives at 15 deg. because the edge would be too delicate. It suggests 18 deg....

Depends on the quality of the steel and your tolerance for maintenance . Harder steels can take thinner edges without undue levels of maintenance. Softer steels can't go quite as thin, but you can still take them down lower than the factory angles for improved performance. If you steel your knife regularly (on a smooth steel or fine grit ceramic, please -- not the grooved steel that comes with most knife blocks), you'll have less trouble with rolling, even with a thin edge. The 15/20 double bevel recommended in the tutorial is a very good kitchen compromise and has the added advantage of the angles being common to nearly every sharpening system on the market.

I'm constantly experimenting with bevel and relief angles, so my knives are a mishmash of different edge angles. I currently have a 10/15 double bevel on my favorite chef's knife (VG-10 steel @ 60Rc) and it is holding up just fine. I have either 15 or 18 degree bevels on my paring knives. Most of them started at 15 degrees but are migrating to steeper angles as I steel them -- rather than resharpening them when they need it, I just steel them at a slightly higher angle to put a microbevel on the edge. It's the lazy way out, but it increases the MTBS (mean time between sharpenings) .

Another OT - out of curiosity, I just measured the angles on the Japanese knives that I bought 20 yrs. ago, made by Aritsugu. The sashimi measures 11 1/2 deg., and the deba measures 18 1/2 deg. As these are single bevel blades, does this really translate as 5+ and 9+ degs. per side if they were double bevel blades?

Phil

←

Yup! Cool, huh? My usuba is at about 11-12 degrees total included angle. I've seen the Aritsugus. They are gorgeous knives. The carbon steel core on the honkasumi knives (and the cutting edge on the honyaki knives) is about 62-63Rc, so they can hold bizarrely thin edges. The Deba, being a butchering knife needs a steeper angle to cut through fish bones, but at 18 degrees included angle, it's still less than half what a comparable western cleaver would be.

Take care,

Chad

[Varmint]

I have a small 6" Wustrof stainless bone cleaver - any suggestions for the sharpening angle I should use? I expect to use it for pork rib and chicken bones....

←

Hmm, let's work the variables. It's a Wusthof, so that most likely means X50CrMo15 steel. Broken down, that works out to 0.5% Carbon (X), approximately 14% Chromium (Cr) and .5-1% molybdenum. It's a good kitchen steel -- high carbon (but just barely), highly stain resistant and with good carbide formers. On the downside, most Solingen manufacturers tend to treat their steel to 54-56HRC (Rockwell C hardness). This isn't bad, but it ain't great either. It is softer than I like. It is easier to sharpen at home, but doesn't hold its edge as well as harder steels. On the other hand, in a cleaver, toughness is more important than hardness. A little rolling of the edge is infinitely preferable to chipping.

As for edge angles, the folks in Solingen tend to be very, very conservative. They set chef's knives at 20 degrees per side (which is about right for a splitting axe) and cleavers even more obtuse. Even with 54-56HRC steel you can go down to 10-12 degrees per side on a chef's knife with a vast improvement in performance with a negligible impact on maintenance. A cleaver (I'm estimating here, bear with me) can easily be set at 20 degrees per side or even steeper before needing an unacceptable level of maintenance. And, oddly enough, the easiest thing to do is to set a too-steep angle and then back off from there. If you start out obtuse and work downward, you may never find how sharp/acute you can get the edge angles. The real trick is to set an angle that is slightly too acute then back off a degree or two until it is stable in repeated use. So try starting at 15-18 degrees per side and see how that works for you. If you see chipping, indentation or impaction, change the edge angle to 18-20 degrees per side. It doesn't take more than a couple of minutes on something like an EdgePro, a little more on other systems.

If you're doing this by hand on benchstones, just remember, a 1 degree angle subtends an arc of 1 unit at a radius of 60 units. The 1-in-60 rule is close enough for many purposes, particularly sharpening at low angles. The math is surprisingly easy. Divide your blade width by 60 to get 1 degree of angle lift. So, for a chef's knife 1.5 inches wide you'd divide 1.5 by 60 units for .025 as 1 degree of back edge lift. As 1 degree is impossible to hand hold and undesirable for an edge angle, go for a more realistic angle. So 5x.025 =.125 (1/8") for a 5 degree angle, .25 (1/4") for a 10 degree angle or 3/8" for a 15 degree angle.

How wide is your cleaver? If the blade width is 3" the math would work out to .05 for 1 degree of spine lift, .25 (or 1/4") for 5 degrees of spine lift or .5 or 1/2" for 10 of spine lift per side for a 20 degree included angle. For 20 degrees per side, lift the spine 1" off the stone

There ya have it, basic instructions for putting any level of edge on any knife or cleaver.

Hope this helps,

Chad

edit: metallurgy correction

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And this is why I'll just let Chad sharpen my knives for me.

[Chad]

 

And this is why I'll just let Chad sharpen my knives for me.

←

Thpppptt!! If you've ever seen me with tools, you'd say, "Hell, I can do that!"

And it's true. If I, your average home incompetent, can sharpen knives anybody can.

Chad

[rama]

Just wanted to say hi (first post here) and thank Chad for a great sharpening guide. It prompted me to pick up a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204 and give my neglected chef's knife some much needed love. After 10 minutes with the sharpener, cutting tonights french fries was effortless and much safer. I had no idea my edge was that far gone. The paring knife and chisels are next....

Looking forward to learning and participating on the site...

[The Apostate]

First: Thanks for all the great work Chad, and best of luck with the new book.

Secondly: My question regards the wire edge and how to get rid of it. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong but some of my knives, in particular some of my older carbon steel knives, seem to hold on to the wire edge no matter what I do.

My usual sharpening routine (presuming a very dull edge) starts with a few strokes through my Edlund electric sharpener to set the primary bevel (I don’t like to use this very often as it removes a fair bit of material in the process) I then move on to a fine grit oilstone used dry, and then onto a 6000 grit water stone for the secondary bevel. If I’m looking to put a fine polish on the edge I’ll then move on to an 8000 grit water stone. I maintain with any one of a series of steels (Dickoron, F. Dick Multicut, Dexter Ceramic, or Diamond) depending on which the knife seems to best respond.

Even after all that, sometimes the knife still won’t cut properly and when I run the flat of my thumb along the edge I can actually feel the wire edge curling one way or the other. A few strokes over a steel will straighten it briefly, but it will curl right back almost immediately.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as this has frustrated me for quite some time.

Thanks

[renart]

Here's a trick that I found on the EdgePro site. To keep from making a mess, park the EdgePro system inside a glass baking dish...and put a dishcloth under the baking dish to keep it from sliding around.

That way, the water and slurry stays inside the dish and you can wash the whole thing out once you are done.

I just tried it for the first time today after having the Apex system for about 5 years now. Works great!

The EdgePro stones are specifically designed to be used wet. They are artificial waterstones, but not Japanese waterstones (natural or reconstituted). I don't think it would hurt them any to use them dry, but they won't cut nearly as well.

Using them wet can be a little messy. If you watch the EdgePro video, Ben Dale uses a squirt bottle to hose down his stones every couple of strokes. He ends up with quite a puddle on his table. My wife would kill me.

I set the EdgePro up on the counter just to the right of the sink -- as close as I can get. That way the stone arm can hang down and over the sink while I wet down the stones. All the slurry and runoff just goes into the sink (where the other stones I'm going to use are soaking).

And instead of using a ketchup-style squirt bottle, I use a heavy duty spray bottle/plant mister set to the tightest stream. Every other pass with the stones (and there are several strokes per pass before you change sides) I use the spray bottle. The high-pressure stream blasts the built-up grit and metal out of the stone without making too much of a mess.

The other thing to watch out for with the EdgePro is the buildup of grit and slurry on the blade table. I don't worry about it too much; my knives are tools. But if you value the aesthetics of your knife or have a particularly nice or collectable knife, you'll want to use painter's tape on the blade. Otherwise it can get a fine pattern of scratches from being dragged across the blade table.

Chad

Edited for grammer

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[Chris Amirault]

Up-topic I asked Chad about how to level my sharpening stones, and Chad responded in this post with the method that EdgePro recommends in their manual. (Insert joke here about men not reading manuals.) I thought I'd give it a try.

Here's what the stone looked like before I started:

You can see the dip in the stone pretty clearly. Here's the sand, which the manual states isn't really special sand:

You dump a bit of sand on concrete, and then rub the stone in a circular motion on the sand:

As the stone grinds away, the color lightens, and you can see that it is leveling off:

Here's that same area after about ten minutes:

[bfg9k]

I read the Knife Sharpening article last night. I have an old, terribly cheap set of knives that deserve recycling. However, the new chef's knife is going to wait until October or November (I'm going with that $50 Tojiro gyuto).

According to the article I can use a pair of old mouse pads that I have next to me, pick up some sandpaper at the automotive store, and sharpen away. Then I just need to invest in a smooth steel and I can resurrect my cruddy knives (and practice sharpening technique) for a few months?

Could it really be that easy and cheap??

[Chad]

First: Thanks for all the great work Chad, and best of luck with the new book.

Secondly:  My question regards the wire edge and how to get rid of it. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong but some of my knives, in particular some of my older carbon steel knives, seem to hold on to the wire edge no matter what I do.

My usual sharpening routine (presuming a very dull edge) starts with a few strokes through my Edlund electric sharpener to set the primary bevel (I don’t like to use this very often as it removes a fair bit of material in the process) I then move on to a fine grit oilstone used dry, and then onto a 6000 grit water stone for the secondary bevel. If I’m looking to put a fine polish on the edge I’ll then move on to an 8000 grit water stone. I maintain with any one of a series of steels (Dickoron, F. Dick Multicut, Dexter Ceramic, or Diamond) depending on which the knife seems to best respond.

Even after all that, sometimes the knife still won’t cut properly and when I run the flat of my thumb along the edge I can actually feel the wire edge curling one way or the other. A few strokes over a steel will straighten it briefly, but it will curl right back almost immediately.

Any thoughts would be appreciated as this has frustrated me for quite some time.

Thanks

←

Sorry for the late reply. I decided that writing a book just wasn't stressful enough, so we packed up the family and moved across the country . Most of the rooms are coming together, but I'm still hip deep in boxes and packing paper.

The wire edge can be a problem, especially with softer steels. It just wants to flop back and forth without ever letting go. You probably already do this, but the first trick to getting rid of the wire edge is to use less and less pressure as you progress through the grits. When the two sides of the knife come together in a perfect V, the edge is pretty thin. Pressing too hard will make it roll over. So when you get to the finer grits, back off on the pressure and continue to decrease it as you stroke the stone.

Another trick worth trying is to actually knock the burr off. Keep a block of wood handy (I sharpen my knives in the kitchen, so there's a cutting board nearby), and when you're just about ready to move up to the next stone, place the edge perpendicular to a corner of the block and lightly slice from heel to tip.

Swipe the edge through the wood a couple of times. You should see a dark line in the wood. That's metal from the weakened wire edge. Finish up with a couple of passes on the stone at a slightly steeper angle than you used while sharpening. Do the same when you're nearly finished with the next higher stone -- swipe the edge down a block of wood a couple times then back to the stone for a couple of finishing passes at a very slightly higher angle.

See if that helps.

Take care,

Chad

edited to add image

Edited August 29, 2006 by Chad (log)

[Chad]

Up-topic I asked Chad about how to level my sharpening stones, and Chad responded in this post with the method that EdgePro recommends in their manual. (Insert joke here about men not reading manuals.) I thought I'd give it a try.

Here's what the stone looked like before I started:

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Dang, Chris, you gave that stone a heck of a workout. I'm glad the flattening procedure worked out for you. As I said above, I'm usually able to flatten the coarse and medium stones several times before they get too thin to use. It's a good trick to know because it works for just about any sharpening stone, not just the Edgepros.

Take care,

Chad

[Chad]

I read the Knife Sharpening article last night.  I have an old, terribly cheap set of knives  that deserve recycling.  However, the new chef's knife is going to wait until October or November (I'm going with that $50 Tojiro gyuto). 

According to the article I can use a pair of old mouse pads that I have next to me, pick up some sandpaper at the automotive store, and sharpen away.  Then I just need to invest in a smooth steel and I can resurrect my cruddy knives (and practice sharpening technique) for a few months?

Could it really be that easy and cheap?? 

←

Good choice on the Tojiro. Sometimes the fit and finish can be a little variable. I have three in-house at the moment and all are excellent, though one did come with the edge slightly rolled. Others, however, have not had such consistent luck. Make sure you purchase from a dealer with a good return/swap policy, so if yours comes a little rougher than you like you can trade it in for a better one.

As for the sandpaper & mousepad rig -- yup, it works great. Like anything, though, it will require some practice. The mousepad deforms as you strop, so it's a little more forgiving of sloppy technique than a rigid stone but you still have to maintain a consistent angle.

Two things to keep in mind:

• Sharpening with a mousepad and sandpaper requires a stropping stroke. That means that you lay the knife on the paper with the edge facing you, raise the spine and stroke away from yourself -- basically pulling the edge along the sandpaper rather than pushing it. When you get to the end of the stroke STOP and lift the blade straight up off the paper. Resist the natural urge to roll your wrist at the end of the stroke. Flip the blade over and do the same thing coming back.
  
• You'll need to put the mousepad on a raised surface to give you sufficient clearance for your hand. Find a piece of 2x4, a dictionary or just place the mousepad at the edge of the countertop, but you need the handle of the knife far enough above the work surface so your fingers don't drag and change the sharpening angle.
  

Hope this helps.

Take care,

Chad

[afraz]

Please post questions relevant to Knife Maintenance and Sharpening here.

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Hi Chad,

Thanks for a phenomenal tutorial. After much deliberation I got myself a forschner fibrox handled chef's knife, it is good and I plan to care for it well.

I think I made one little discovery that might be helpful to others. The mousepad trick you mention can also be done with a "sanding sponge". This is a thick spongelike item with a sandpaper surface on one side; search the term on google for many places to get one.

Thanks,

Aaron

[kbjesq]

(Note: this post and the next several moved from the Ken Onion topic -- eGCI Staff)

I also have a yearning for the KO chef's knife. OK, actually, I want the whole set including bamboo block that they sell at fancy places like WS. When I was in Sur la Table a few weeks ago, the salesperson informed me that I could not use my Chef's Choice on it, but that Shun does sell an electric sharpener, specifically for these knives.

Do I take it correctly, Chad, from your comments above that the electric sharpener, even the one made by Shun, is a bad idea?

There is an example of it here.

[Chad]

. . . When I was in Sur la Table a few weeks ago, the salesperson informed me that I could not use my Chef's Choice on it, but that Shun does sell an electric sharpener, specifically for these knives.

Do I take it correctly, Chad, from your comments above that the electric sharpener, even the one made by Shun, is a bad idea?

←

You can use your Chef's Choice on the Shun knives, you'll just change the edge angle to something significantly more obtuse and less useful. The Shuns have 16-degree-per-side angles (32 degree included angle). The Chef's Choice sharpeners finish with a 25-degree-per-side angle (50 degree included angle). Chef's Choice does make an electric sharpener (model# 316) that is set up for the more acute angles you find on Japanese knives.

I have several electric sharpeners in my office that I tested for my book, but I hadn't seen the Shun sharpener until just now. It must be new. Every electric sharpener has similar flaws. The first stage removes metal at an alarming rate. They should come with a password protected lock that can only be removed when you can verify that you have read the owner's manual at least twice and swear not to use the first stage except in extreme emergencies. The second and third stages (if available) don't do quite as much damage, but leave the edge much coarser and more obtuse than it should be. You end up with an edge that feels very aggressive but doesn't last very long, necessitating another trip through the whirling stones of death. Argh. And if a knife has a bolster that goes all the way to the heel (as many traditional German and French styles do), an electric sharpener will, over time, hollow out a small half-moon shaped scoop just in front of the heel. That scoop, called a swale, keeps the back end of the knife from contacting the cutting board cleanly, reducing the effectiveness of your knife. The only way to get rid of it is to have a professional sharpener grind the rest of the edge down to the level of the swale, greatly reducing the life span of your knife.

So, no, I'm not a big fan of electric sharpeners. Chef's Choice does have one model, the 120, that I do like. It has a powered strop that can keep your edges at a fairly high performance level for a very long time without having to resharpen.

Chad

[kbjesq]

The first stage removes metal at an alarming rate. They should come with a password protected lock that can only be removed when you can verify that you have read the owner's manual at least twice and swear not to use the first stage except in extreme emergencies.

←

Very good point. I read the owner's manual after I completely removed all of the serrated edges on my bread knife using stage 1. After reading the owner's manual, I also noticed the little sticker on top of stage 1 that says, "not for use on serrated knives".

The second and third stages (if available) don't do quite as much damage, but leave the edge much coarser and more obtuse than it should be. You end up with an edge that feels very aggressive but doesn't last very long, necessitating another trip through the whirling stones of death. Argh.

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Wow, come to think of it, I do get very sharp edges, but you are right, it seems like I have to sharpen my knives more frequently as time goes by.

And if a knife has a bolster that goes all the way to the heel (as many traditional German and French styles do), an electric sharpener will, over time, hollow out a small half-moon shaped scoop just in front of the heel. That scoop, called a swale, keeps the back end of the knife from contacting the cutting board cleanly, reducing the effectiveness of your knife. The only way to get rid of it is to have a professional sharpener grind the rest of the edge down to the level of the swale, greatly reducing the life span of your knife.

←

Well, at least now I know what that little hollow in the back end is called . . . sigh.

BTW, I do have the Chef's Choice Model 120. Do you have any suggestions on how to use this for best results? (Other than to avoid stage 1 altogether, which is what I do now).

And finally, Is there a mail-in knife sharpening service that you recommend?

[Patapsco Mike]

Commandments 1 through 5 of the 10 commandments of knives are all "thou shalt not use automatic knife sharpeners"

Commandment 6 is "thou shalt make no exceptions to the above"

Buy a Sharpmaker, follow the directions. It's easy.

Knives are like chainsaws blades- if you let them get dull, they are a nightmare to sharpen. Sometimes practically impossible to bring back unless you really know what you are doing. The trick to keeping a knife (or chain) sharp is to get on some kind of regular schedule of sharpening. If the knife is still fairly sharp, it takes 5 minutes to get it blazing sharp again. If you wait until the knife is really really dull, it might take an hour of work to get it back- and you could end up really making a mess of it.

On my S30V blades that get daily use, I strop or make a few passes on ceramic rods about once a month. It takes about 2-3 minutes per knife to get them shaving sharp again. For the chain saw, it's a quick sharpening every 2 tanks of gas (in case you were wondering).

[Chad]

And finally, Is there a mail-in knife sharpening service that you recommend?

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I just have a moment, so I'll start with this one. Full answer tomorrow.

Yes! There is a great mail order sharpening service. In fact, there are a couple. One of the best in the business is eGullet member Dave Martell at D&R Sharpening Solutions outside of Philadelphia. His prices are reasonable and his sharpening service is exemplary. He even has an upgraded service for tricky Japanese knives or for chefs who are into extreme edge angles and polish levels. Dave knows his stuff and is a hell of a nice guy.

If Dave is full up or if you are closer to Washington, Bob Kramer at Kramer Knives is excellent. He is first and foremost a knifemaker of rare skill but he still does sharpening, too.

1SharpKnife in Arizona is also a good resource. I haven't tested his mail order sharpening services but have heard very good things. Curtis is also a great source for Edge Pro Apex sharpening rigs, extra stones and other sharpening gear.

Chad

Edited September 12, 2007 by Chad (log)

[RobertCollins]

I have had excellent service from Epicurean Edge in Kirkland, WA. Last year sharpening my Japanese knives was $1.65 per inch.

I've since then bought the Edge Pro system and am very pleased that I did.

Edited September 16, 2007 by RobertCollins (log)

[Chad]

I have had excellent service from Epicurean Edge  in Kirkland, WA. Last year sharpening my Japanese knives was $1.65 per inch.

I've since then bought the Edge Pro system and am very pleased that I did.

←

Doh! Thanks for bringing them up, Robert. I can't believe I forgot Dan O'Malley & the folks at Epicurean Edge. They do really nice work. They also can re-handle knives if you have a basically sound knife with a cracked or broken handle (or just want something cool).

Good choice on the Edge Pro. I love mine.

Chad

[Rembrant Wood]

I have a Murray Carter "Funiyaki" (carbon blade) that I used last night to break a chicken down into 8 pieces.  Afterwards I noticed that little pieces of the blade had broken off along the edge, sort of like small (.3-.5mm) scallops along about an inch of blade.  It's not like I was hacking randomly at the carcass, I was making cuts through cartilage and small relatively soft bone.  Does this sound normal?  I've used a similar shaped global to do this job countless times with no problems.

I'm kind of bummed, as this knife wasn't exactly cheap.

Yow. I feel your pain.

A funayuki-bocho is a general purpose knife. They're not as delicate as, say, a yanagi-ba. This shouldn't have happened just cutting through cartilage or even soft bone. Murray Carter uses Hitachi #1 White steel clad with softer stainless. The carbon steel edge is usually up in the 60-62 Rockwell C range, making it extremely hard but prone to chipping when it encounters hard material. Doesn't sound like that was the case here.

Frankly, I'm not sure what to tell you. This is outside my experience. I do know, though, that Murray is a true gentleman and will probably be more dismayed than you are. I'd e-mail him exactly what you posted here. This is the address I've used to contact him in the past -- Murray Carter.

Let us know how it turns out.

Take care,

Chad

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I would NOT risk ANY $100 + knife with a rated hardness around 60 or more on parting chickens. You can get a basic workhorse Forschner or a cheap Chicago to do the dirtywork. I've dismembered MANY chickens with no damage to my forschner or the Chicago (which I can't even get very sharp). Of course a middleweight Cleaver or something like my Wasabi 8 1/2 Deba can also do this and again....the WORST that happens is some damage to a $20 knife.

I have a light-very sharp knife I use for speed/finesse,but when the job calls for a tough Dump Truck of a Knife...I'm not gonna use a " Corvette" as a dump truck.

I'm looking to get a spiffy Damascus/VG 10 luxury knife (by my humble standards) but the Forschner will always be on the job.

Incidentally.....I'd used the double bevel method for about 25 yrs and it's the way to go unless you have a REAL thin blade.

The stamped Forschners really shine with a double bevel. I used to win bets off guys who spent big $ on a knife.....just lacked the sharpening skills and the relatively thin blade. There were a few tests that are far more difficult than shave your arm or slice paper. Try dropping a cherry tomato onto the edge from 6". If you are SHARP....it's impaled and halfway cut through. Dull? It will bounce off. I won a few beers on that matchup.

I'm wondering though about double beveling a laminated or damascus knife. I'd worry that the back bevel may weaken the protection of the hard but somewhat brittle core.

Chad makes a good point about micro-corrosion of the edge on a Carbon blade. This of course can also apply to a knife like the Tojiro DP. I would not mind having a real nice (and hard + affordable) Carbon knife,or Carbon core...even in a commercial kitchen IF I had options to use something else to slice the onions,peppers,limes etc.

For instance,for a pro cook...the Tojiro or one of those nice Hiramoto Carbon Gyotos,could be REAL cost effective--but you'd whip out a Mac or Forscher or whatever for the acid foods..and stuff with bones.