Are cooks underpaid?

[Fat Guy]

FG, is that 1:18 for equity partners or just for regular partners?  Because, in my day-job experience at law firms, there seem to be plenty of non-equity partners that make huge bucks.

That's for "making partner" as in you get to your 8th-or-so year as an associate and they offer you partnership, under whatever system that firm has in place (such as a non-equity junior-partnership followed by an equity buy-in). It doesn't include things like "of counsel" and "senior attorney."

I'm guessing in the restaurant business the ratio isn't all that different for chefs. It's not exactly the same system in terms of internal promotion, but if you look at the top 50 restaurants in New York and you look at their kitchens, there are on average only a small number of cooks (as in, garde-manger or above) getting hired in a given year. I know that doesn't create a comparable statistic because chefs can lateral in from elsewhere (aka France), but if the universe of top-restaurant chefs is drawn from the universe of top-restaurant cooks, well, somebody can explain the math.

[Cheffie3]

Also, I disagree that anyone can learn to cook.  I've been "practicing" for 8 years now and am still lacking in so many areas.

don't you think that after 8 years you'd be a competent line cook? i'm guessing that it wouldn't take even 1/4 of that time for someone to become competent enough to work a grill in a busy kitchen. and i'll reiterate that most anyone can handle a good number of the tasks associated with restaurant cooking.

If a linecooks makes the exact same food day in and day out, then yes, I'd probably be able to learn in two years. However, if the menu is constantly changing and you are the type of cook that strives for perfection with every dish...that is not so easy.

Also, some claim that waiters have to have people skills and not everyone can do that....I say get real!! It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know that if you are nice to the people at table 8 and smile alot, you'll get a bigger tip!!! Duh....that doesn't take people skills, just a hunger for money. If the puppy rolls over he'll get a treat from his master.

[Basildog]

Cheffie, out of interest, have you ever worked FOH?

[Cheffie3]

Basildog: no, I've never worked FOH or BOH, but as a food lover/cook, I hate the way cooks/chefs/linecooks etc are underpaid and I hate when people minimize cooking (anyone can do that....), but make a huge deal of having people skills to be waiters. Being nice to someone for immediate financial gain doesn't take people skills, just common sense.

I've even heard of waiters feeling they should be tipped for carry out, which I find ridiculous, I don't tip the bagboy at Jewel and he does much more. Now, don't get me wrong, I know the waiters do their jobs and some do it well, I just hate that they make out like bandits while the cooks are on their feet all day in a hot kitchen.

[Fat Guy]

I'm always reluctant to make claims of "market failure" because, for the most part, people who cry "market failure" are really just saying the market has ruled against them and they don't like it. That's anything but a market failure.

But here I think we have a situation where there's a compelling argument for a market-failure analysis, because of the unusual and in my opinion irrational way in which waiters derive income.

[fresco]

If there is a market failure--and I tend to agree there is--there should be a market opportunity for someone with the determination to do things different. Or do you feel that the present system of tipping is so ingrained that it constitutes an immovable market force by itself?

[Chef Fowke]

If there is a market failure--and I tend to agree there is--there should be a market opportunity for someone with the determination to do things different. Or do you feel that the present system of tipping is so ingrained that it constitutes an immovable market force by itself?

The titanic could be turned, just not on a dime. It takes time and foresight.

Not to use this analogy to death, the industry needs to look forward before it hits the iceberg.

But I still believe that the biggest cash cow for any cook is running his own kitchen or owning his own restaurant. There is more of a drive in the BOH to do this. A lot, not all, of FOH staff does it as a temporary job until they land their golden career. BOH seems to be more industry mobile or content to remain at the present level.

Chefs who own their own restaurants work hard and pay their dues (average of one to two years working full time and an extra six hours a day writing up a business plan). They work for little or no money to build their resumes so they can attract investors. You need to do your time before you make the big money. Or, be like a group of my friends, who went to university for 4 to 8 years, suffered, lived in slums and ate Kraft dinner who started their careers making $80k(can). It’s all the same in the end.