Unacceptable behavior?

[thereuare]

My wife and i decide to eat out tonite and go to a local bar with a separate restaurant attached... yet i always comment that as good as the food is, something always goes wrong there. It's often little things that i can overlook, running out of dishes on the menu and things of that nature, but tonite i learned the manager's 'policy' that will likely cause me to vote with my feet and my wallet and not return. Am i unreasonable, and what do the rest of you think:

We arrived and told the hostess we were a party of 2 and were told there would be a 15-20 minute wait, which we said was fine. Although i saw a table for 4 which was empty, i naturally assumed it was in the process of getting filled. From my seat at the bar i could see a table of 2 get up, have the table set, and then the hostess come to the bar area to retrieve the party of 2 for the new table. When another table for 2 was emptied, the hostess asked us if we were the "Christine" party, to which i replied that we weren't, but i asked if they had somebody waiting for the 4 top which was still empty.

The hostess replied that they didn't have anybody waiting for that table, but it was for 4 people, and it's against her manager's policy to seat 2 people there. I gave her a dumb look of disbelief and she said she'd go speak to the manager about it and disappeared... and didn't return. After a few minutes i went to the hostess desk to speak to a different hostess who i had the following converation with:

HOSTESS: Well, it is a Friday nite and it's our busiest nite, so i'm sure you can understand.

ME: If it's your busiest nite i'd think that the manager would want somebody seated at that table in order to get it started and turn over faster.

HOSTESS: Well, it's not fair to the server since you'd only be 2 and it's a table for 4.

ME: What's not fair to the server is sending me to the bar to get my drinks instead of ordering them from her.

HOSTESS: A table for 2 just got their check so it should only be a few more minutes.

We would have left at this point, but we already had drinks in front of us at the bar and didn't feel like going to someplace else late in the evening, but it will certainly affect my feet walking thru their doors again.

I realize i'm not dining at Jean Georges, but is this acceptable at any restaurant?

Edited June 14, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

It's acceptable for them to run their business anyway they see fit. It is also acceptable for you to leave after hearing about this "policy." Then they'd have two empty tables, instead of one. You should have shared the old expression with her, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Although in their case it was two in the hand.

[Nick]

Two birds in the hand are worth four in the bush?

[Holly Moore]

I almost always come down on the side of the customer, but not in this case. Friday night, running pretty full, I'd hold out the larger table for a three or four top. Restaurants need to make their money on Friday and Saturday. I might relent if a promised 15 minute wait turned into 30, but I wouldn't offer up the four top right off the bat.

Come back on a Monday, and you can sit anywhere you want. You can even change tables between courses if you so desire.

[Lreda]

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with Holly. It's Fri and there is only 1 table open. Also it's seems the hostess(es) might be a little young and possibly confused. Did they seat you within the 15-20 minutes stated? If they did it's possible they save the 4-top for a table that was running late. The weather was pretty shitty tonight. Also take into account, how was dinner? If it's was good, convienent and service was good during dining maybe you let a little error slide by.

And maybe go on Monday and switch tables 3 times.

[thereuare]

They don't take reservations, if they did, my whole viewpoint would be different (waiting for a reservation to show is understandable).

Shortly after we were seated (after 20 minute wait) there we plenty of 4 tops turning over, so it's not as if they had just recently filled all the other 4 tops and, if they gave us the last 4 top, the next party of 4 would have to wait an hour.

My point of view is that, in this situation, you can keep a customer waiting 5 minutes or so if you expect a 2 top to open up, but 15-20 minutes is too long to make a customer wait while they stare at an empty table and the restaurant hopes that a larger party comes thru the door.

Telling me to visit the restaurant on a Monday misses the point entirely (i think)... it's not the wait that i was upset about, it's being told to wait while there is an empty table there waiting for a customer that they hope walks thru the door (again, not waiting for a reservation to show up, just an unspecified party to walk thru the door).

If you treat me like you don't want my business on a Friday nite, don't expect me to return on a Monday when you need my business.

Edited June 14, 2003 by thereuare (log)

[Lreda]

They don't take reservations,

That's would have been helpful. Yes you are correct. The only way they would be in the right would have been if it was a table of 6 and they broke it down for a duece and then a six walks in. If they don't take reservations and policy is on a 1st come, 1st served basis they should have given you the table immediately.

As far as Monday's I was just pulling on the earlier joke that you can break chops on a Monday and switch tables.

[Holly Moore]

The comment about Monday night was more intended to communicate that on a typical restaurant Monday night, empty four tops are plentiful and therefore there is no problem seating two at a four top.

You have every right to decide why you will or will not return to a restaurant. I can't say you're wrong. I'm just explaining why the restaurant was cherishing that remaining four top. And had a party of four walked in, as often happens on a Friday night, the resaurant would have a table at which to seat them.

I on the other hand rarely go to a dinner house sort of place that doesn't take reservations. I understand the greed that leads to that sort of policy and refuse to accept it.

Edited June 14, 2003 by Holly Moore (log)

[chopjwu12]

i kind of see both sides of the story but i will say this. If it is a first come first serve restaurant then i think i would have made you wait 15 minutes for a table to open. Its kind of liek playing craps. Maybe a two top will open and you can have that table but if it doesn't then i would give you the four top after 15 minutes. I also dont feel that 15 minute sis long to wait for a table.

[Lreda]

What's the deal? The 4-top waits for the next table just as the 2-top waited.

No reservatons means 1st come 1st serve.

Seating policies like this make for bad business in bad times. You're playing craps in a economy that doesn't allow for bad bets

Edited June 14, 2003 by Lreda (log)

[chopjwu12]

Yeah but thats the game. First come or not that doesn't really mean shit. 15 minute sisn't going to get anyone angry because its acceptable. If the patrons ask why didn't we get this table first just tell them we were expecting a 4 top but we decided to give you the table instead. Thats the game.

[=Mark]

Hey Chop, where ya been? Have not seen you around lately...

Edited June 14, 2003 by =Mark (log)

[chopjwu12]

my balls have been latched to work and wedding planning. My time is thin but im starting to come back afloat. Im sure you will see alot more of me in the future.

[Basildog]

I tend to side with the restaurant on this one BUT they could handle it better.Every odd number table i get ..i lose £30.If i only take tables of 2 i,m down £120.Not a lot of money, but we only seat 22 max.If i was running the place in question, then i would explain to the waiting guest that the first table for 2 is yours,not the next table.

[Rachel Perlow]

Two birds in the hand are worth four in the bush?

Exactly.

[Rosie]

If they don't take reservations they should have seated you at the 4 top.

If a party of 4 came in they could have bought drinks at the bar and waited. I hate places that don't take reservations.

Will you name the restaurant?

[Basildog]

Rosie...why "should".I,m not saying the policy is a good one, but its their policy.Vote with your feet, name and shame!

[Rosie]

Rosie...why "should".I,m not saying the policy is a good one, but its their policy.Vote with your feet, name and shame!

It was my opinion that they should seat you but you are right that the restaurant can set their own policy.

[thereuare]

Every odd number table i get ..i lose £30.If i only take tables of 2 i,m down £120.

And have that table of 2 walk out and you're now out £60.... not to mention the negative publicity you receive from the 10 people those two people tell.

[Jaymes]

Yes. The restauranteur could have just come right out and told the truth:

"You may be human beings and 'customers' but that's not how we see it. To us, you're just a billfold and a dollar amount. So we'll let you sit there only if you promise to each order two meals and four drinks and tip accordingly.

"Or perhaps you two should find another couple waiting in the bar and chat them up to see if you're compatible."

I guess if I were the owner of that particular restaurant, I'd try to hold out for a while, but then when the customer asked about the table, I'd smile and say that "we prefer to hold the larger tables for larger groups, but since it's you.... "

Edited June 14, 2003 by Jaymes (log)

[glenn]

I don't think it's black and white. It depends on circumstances. On a busy night, generally speaking there's no way in hell I would seat a deuce at a 4 top. That also depends on the makeup of the restaurant (the percentage of large tables) and what kind of traffic it gets. For example, consideration would be given if it was more of a family restaurant and they got a high percentage of 2+ parties. There are so many factors to take into consideration that it's impossible to generalize. But if you got an airhead model type or Rosie as hostess, throw that all out the window.

[thereuare]

"Or perhaps you two should find another couple waiting in the bar and chat them up to see if you're compatible."

We came close, for when i returned from talking with the hostess, there was a drunk guy trying to pick up my wife! (i ain't lying, it's the truth!)

Based upon this discussion, I am no longer amazed by the number of restaurants that go out of business (although i AM amazed by many of them that stay in business :) )

RESTAURANTEURS: i know it's a tough business, but don't be penny wise and dollar foolish! You may make $10 less on that table today by seating us there, but how much will you make when we return again and again (vs. how much you won't make when we never return).

Incidentally, i've probably eaten at this place 25 times in the last 3 years, and 80% of my visits have been on Sun-Thur, so i think i'm certainly somebody that they 'want' during a mid-week visit (i dont' imply this to say that i'm a 'regurlar' or even 'known' in the place, quite the contrary, i just add it regarding the mention above about how restaurants need the mid-week business.

[tkrongold]

I would have to side with the customer here, but I think I can top this story.

A friend & I went to a well-known breakfast/lunch place in Montclair & as we walked in, there were two empty tables - one a four-top & one being a very small two. The sign said "seat yourself," so we did at the four-top. The waitress then came over & said this is a table for four, you'll have to sit at the table for two. Not wanting a hassle, we moved. Not more than two minutes later, another couple walks in & is given the table for four. When I questioned the waitress about this, she said rather rudely "well, it's the only table left so they had to sit there." If their policy is to only seat three or four people at a four-top, they should stick to it.

Needless to say, we won't be back there, besides the food was extremely mediocre and the service worse.

[Basildog]

Just to be clear,i don't operate a no booking policy.I don't turn tables, and i'm fully booked for the next week

[Kim WB]

On a busy night, generally speaking there's no way in hell I would seat a deuce at a 4 top.  That also depends on the makeup of the restaurant (the percentage of large tables) and what kind of traffic it gets.

I'm siding with Glenn on this one..if the wait exceeded 20 minutes, the you could have rightly been disturbed that the table continued to remain empty. But put it in context...you're in a bar type atmosphere, its casual...no reservations, etc. This is a Tiger's Tale scenario to me...it's a popular bar in Princeton/Montgomery area, and its all about the wait, the beer, the LACK of reservations...I agree with Rosie, I don't like it when place doesn't accept reservations, but I dont' expect bar/tavern/pub kinds of places to use them, and I'm always prepared to drink and wait!