Parisian lunch - killer wine lists?

[Scott]

Hi,

am in Paris on Business in 4 weeks, want a 3 star lunch or similar standard at a place that has a killer wine list.

Please no Tour d'argent - the food, is minus 2.5 stars in my estimation and heading south.

Also, would appreciate some semblance of value in the list, I can get bent over in London as it is..

would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks

Scott

[Steve Martin]

http://www.bistrotdusommelier.com/

Bloody brilliant.

Great cooking and a chance to drink wine by the glass that could be indigestibly expensive by the bottle.

Take your 3 star meal at Gagnaire and don't let the wine get in the way of the food.

Viognier right through, perhaps.

[Bux]

http://www.bistrotdusommelier.com/

I've heard of this place, but have never been there. Thanks for the URL. There's an interesting selection of wines by the glass, and quarter liter and half liter carafe. More importantly the price per ounce (or cl) is about the same, which affords a wonderful opportunity to taste different wines. Nevertheless, I suspect this is not the killer list Scott is looking for.

I'm afraid I am of no more help. When dining at the three star restaurants, I tend to drink from the less expensive pages of the wine lists. I also tend to regard wine lists much the same way I regard menus -- if there's one thing I really want to order, the list is excellent. A small concise menu of dishes that express the strengths of the chef and his kitchen are more appealing than an impressively large list of offerings. Elsewhere on eGullet, from time to time, references are made to the difference between food connoisseurs who consider wine as but an element in the meal and wine connoiseurs who see the perfect evening as one in which the food compliments the wine. I suspect wine buffs are more apt to appreciate an extensive wine list than the food buffs care about seeing many dishes on the menu. Perhaps this is a thread for another time.

[Mark Sommelier]

My favorite winelist in the whole world is at Taillevant. I've read that the food has much improved. The restaurant is famous for the service, also. The winelist is listed by vintage, rather than by price. The vintages start mid-19th century. It will blow you away.

[dlc]

I have to second the recc's of Mark Sommelier on Taillevent's wine list. It is simply astounding. Lunch there is a great value and if you stop by they will allow you to pick out your wines in advance if you desire. M. Vrinat (owner) will be more than happy to help you. They also have a wine shop in the neighborhood. If you are interested in burgundies then a 6eme restaurant by the name of Recamier had a wonderful list of older burgundies. This is another place where I stopped the day before to peruse the wine list and decide my likely choices. A bistro in the 1st Benoit also has a nice but not killer wine list but a killer list of old vintage Armagnac's

[gingerbread]

Nobody has said Lucas Carton. Lots of goodies by the glass.

[Scott]

thanks guys

[gingerbread]

Where are you going?

[Scott]

Gingerbread,

I have bookings at Lucas Carton & le Cinq.

I will probably look at Willi's also.

Trying to get to Taillevent - but that's proving elusive.

[Nikolaus]

Gingerbread,

I have bookings at Lucas Carton & le Cinq.

I will probably look at Willi's also.

Trying to get to Taillevent - but that's proving elusive.

It may be too late...but if You don not make it to Taillevent, try Guy Savoy (Rue Troyon) in the 17th, they use to have some space, at least for lunch, despite their (fully deserved) three stars. I use to have lunche there without reservation). Great and reasonable wine list and competent sommelier. And the carte is marvellous! n.

[David Russell]

Agree on the list at Taillevent, plus its wines are far and away the most reasonably priced of all the three stars.

Sorry, but IMO the list at Guy Savoy isn't all that great. Last time I was there, after 15 minutes we finally found a de Montille Burgundy listed that represented the only halfway decent QPR in the entire selection; another 15 minutes and the sommelier returned with the bad news that a thorough search of the cellar failed to turn up the bottle ordered. At those prices, they can bloody well reprint the list daily to guard against such snafus.

You might consider Hiramatsu. For a young restaurant they've amassed quite a cave. And the more highfalutin' the wine, the more modest its markup, percentagewise, over the restaurant's cost.

[42390]

Not a starred place, but Les Bouchons de Francois Clerc, Rue Hotel Colbert, claims to have the lowest priced wine list in France. I do not reacall any Bordeaux 1st crus on the list but plenty of 2nd and 3rds at prices one half to one third what you would pay at most restaurants. The cooking is good too but not at the star level.

[PaulaJK]

Scott, If you have returned from France, would you share

your dining experiences with us? How was Le Cinq?....

Lucas Carton?

[Scott]

in short:

lucas Carton - superb

le cinq - average

Atelier Joel Rubuchon - matrix designed sushi bar ambience, with v.good food.

Le Regalade - my favourite for wonderful bistro atmosphere

L'ami louis - up themsleves

Lucas Carton - had a 1990 Bouscasse VV for €55 - great value!

cave taillevent did my personal shopping well.

[Bux]

It's been a while since we've eaten at La Regalade, but I once described it as my favorite. I'm glad to hear it's still satisfying. I've heard reports that over popularity has taken its toll on the service, if not the cuisine.

[Scott]

It's been a while since we've eaten at La Regalade, but I once described it as my favorite. I'm glad to hear it's still satisfying. I've heard reports that over popularity has taken its toll on the service, if not the cuisine.

Regalade was still superb, the wine list is improved and the ambience is wonderful. Yes it's full but then it's tiny and so very good, one would wonder if it were any other way.

[mdibiaso]

Scott Lucas Carton is my favorite place. I would love to hear more about what you ate and drank!

[paulbrussel]

You should have had a look at "Le Carré des Feuillants" (two stars but deserves 3) - I was there a couple of weeks ago: excellent cuisine and wonderful wine list.

"La Régalade" was still very nice in December 2002, but I haven't returned.

[Bux]

You should have had a look at "Le Carré des Feuillants" (two stars but deserves 3) - I was there a couple of weeks ago: excellent cuisine and wonderful wine list.

"La Régalade" was still very nice in December 2002, but I haven't returned.

There's another old favorite of ours. We've only been there twice and not recently only because we don't get to spend much time in Paris and because there are so many places I want to try. That I don't have enough money could be another reason, but we found Carré des Feuillants to be one of the best values, so price is not a good reason here. Nevertheless, I haven't heard it get much good press of word of mouth lately. I'm glad to see it appreciated.

[paulbrussel]

Indeed: I was quite astonished! It was my first time there, but I was very much surprised. I went to Le Grand Véfour*** the day before, but Le Carré des Feuillants was just (for me!) more interesting - well, I took the lunch menu in the Palais Royal and the tasting menu in Le Carré, which can be quite a difference...

Apicius** however, for dinner after Le Grand Véfour, was a bit disappointing...

[Bux]

A year or two apart, we had the seasonal tasting menu and then the lunch special at Carré des Feulliants. There was a world of difference. The lunch special was nice, but nowhere near the tasting menu experience. We felt the seasonal tasting menu at twice the price, or more, was the better value because it really took us to another level.

[paulbrussel]

Good to know, Robert, since I am planning to go there much more often - well, for me goint once a month to Paris is no problem since it is only 1h30 minutes by train...

[Scott]

For those of you familiar with the 1990 Bouscasse VV I had at lucas carton you would know what an amazing deal that was - 55€!

For great wine I went to Willis where I had a 1996 Lafon meursault perrieres - stunning. About €150

A 1999 Clos Chenes Volnay from latour Giraud cost €50 at regalade, and perfectly nice 2001 Spatlese from Ernie Loosen at le Cinq.

Lucas carton - I had foie steamed in Cabbage, very sensous in the mouth, but I am not the greatest foie lover (gasp!), and I might have enjoyed something else more.

The pigeon was magnificent, perfectly cooked, with the most explosive caramelised turnips. Gamey and complex flavours, not overwrought. Well balanced.

Dessert - shed load of raspberry i beleive? it came on 3 plates and was enough for an army, tart, shortbread, sorbet etc etc. great.

I had a similar foie dish at Robuchon, where it was wrapped in cabbage and with a pigeon breast, this was more accomplised. A bit of roughage to the texture worked well.