It's Their Party But Your Wine

[Craig Camp]

What if the host thanks you for the wine, then promptly removes it to a cabinet where it sits for the rest of the night? Meanwhile, you're offered a glass of uninteresting jug wine.

[tommy]

you can't expect someone to open a gift that you're brought them.

the author, i think, handles this very well.

[vengroff]

Unless I have had a specific conversation with the host in which we discussed me bringing wine to go with the menu, I don't expect to drink what I bring that night. When I bring a bottle of wine, it's a gift. The recipient can do whatever they like with it.

[JAZ]

you can't expect someone to open a gift that you're brought them.

the author, i think, handles this very well.

You think so? I don't. I think the author's approach is pushy and offensive. If a guest of mine said that to me, he would not be on my guest list for long. It's one thing to ask if your host would like you to bring some wine, and it's fine if you ask what the host is planning to serve and run your planned selections by him or her, but I think that to "insist" and take over the way the author suggests is overbearing and presumptuous. I mean, you're a guest -- you don't get to "establish the rules."

[hollywood]

This cuts several ways. So you open your wine and it all gets consumed by persons other than the host and yourself. Frankly, if it's good stuff, I'd rather have the illusion of knowing that the host is enjoying it on his own and not sharing it with the rabble (you know, the ones who bring the Two Buck Chuck and drink everyone else's good wine). Of course, one alternate scenario is that he takes my bottle to the next party he's invited to and gives it to that host.

[tommy]

You think so? I don't. I think the author's approach is pushy and offensive. If a guest of mine said that to me, he would not be on my guest list for long. It's one thing to ask if your host would like you to bring some wine, and it's fine if you ask what the host is planning to serve and run your planned selections by him or her, but I think that to "insist" and take over the way the author suggests is overbearing and presumptuous. I mean, you're a guest -- you don't get to "establish the rules."

well, you know, the host can just say "no thanks, i've got some ideas for the wine already." do you think it's wrong for the host to put the bottle (gift) away?

i've found that if i want to make sure i'm drinking something i like, i bring it. 10 times out of 10 the bottles get opened and everyone's happy...and the host still has their gift. seems like a win-win.

[Craig Camp]

All rules are off if the host is a 'home wine maker'.

[Bill Klapp]

If you cultivate your friends properly, I find that they can acclimate themselves fairly well to drinking hundreds or thousands of dollars of your wine rather than the Turning Leaf that they would have served! The most gracious will realize the extent of your generosity and do crazy things like pick up your food tab...

[JAZ]

You think so? I don't. I think the author's approach is pushy and offensive. If a guest of mine said that to me, he would not be on my guest list for long. It's one thing to ask if your host would like you to bring some wine, and it's fine if you ask what the host is planning to serve and run your planned selections by him or her, but I think that to "insist" and take over the way the author suggests is overbearing and presumptuous. I mean, you're a guest -- you don't get to "establish the rules."

well, you know, the host can just say "no thanks, i've got some ideas for the wine already." do you think it's wrong for the host to put the bottle (gift) away?

i've found that if i want to make sure i'm drinking something i like, i bring it. 10 times out of 10 the bottles get opened and everyone's happy...and the host still has their gift. seems like a win-win.

Tommy, as I mentioned (or meant to imply), I have no problem with guests bringing wine, or asking what I'm serving and thereby suggesting that they will bring something to drink that evening. I just don't like the author's manner. For instance, this passage really bothers me:

Out of necessity, I developed a strategy. It works like this: Whenever I'm invited to a party, I ask the hosts in advance what kind of food they're preparing. Then, I mention a particular type of wine that might go nicely with the food and insist that I bring a couple of bottles.

The conversation might go something like this:

"Hey, so what are you making tonight?"

"I'm doing ribs with this really spicy barbecue sauce."

"Cool. How many are you expecting?"

"Well, there'll be the four of us plus a couple that lives next door."

"Six altogether? Perfect. I have a couple of different zinfandels I've been anxious to try. Don't worry about the wine -- I'll bring enough for everyone."

I establish the rules up front: I'm going to bring some wine, but the deal is we're going to drink it. No confusion. No uncomfortable moments when we arrive. Everything is on the table, figuratively and literally (emphasis mine).

I still feel that the author's approach is egotistical and presumptuous. He (she?) doesn't ask, he just makes an announcement. And that "I establish the rules" line just galls me.

[Bux]

Okay Craig, there goes your chance to be invited to my house and my last chance to build a cellar.

My understanding is that the customs in the US is different from the ones in France. Wherever there's a conflict between French customs and American customs or etiquette and it involves anything to do with food or wine, I try to play by French rules, when I get to make the rules. In the US, it's very common for the guest to contribute to the dinner and will often bring wine or dessert unannounced. I've had guests say, "well let's open the champagne now," referring to their champagne--I mean the one I mistook as a gift. It doesn't seem to matter what I've served so far or if they brought a brut champange and I think it will be terrible with the dessert. In France, a gift of a bottle of wine is considered a gift and not a participation in hosting.

When we go out, I often have to think twice about whether I am going to be served my own wine. More and more, I prefer to opt for flowers. When I get a bottle of wine, I rarely serve it at that dinner. There are always exceptions. If it's a special bottle, I save it for a special occasion. If it's very special, I try to serve it when I have that guest over again. If it's better than what I've served that evening, I'll make a special effort to have that guest over again and enjoy a good wine with him, although it may or may not be the wine he brought.

I have no objection to a guest offering to bring the wine for the evening, with the proviso that we discuss it before hand. I've had close friends offer me a list of wines they'd like to try and ask if any would go with the meal and other wines I was planning on serving. I consider that a charming gesture as long as it's not an attempt to take over my party. There are few occasions where I would not be offended by the suggestion that we turn our hors d'oeuvres into a wine tasting party. I can't begin to think of a situation where I've issued invitations to dinner and could have been persuaded to ask my guests to chip in funds to attend. All this center of attraction just because he's been force-fed something I [the author] had no interest in drinking. The article started off really nicely and got better until it reached the point where I hoped he'd learn to arrive empty handed. By the time I finished, it ocurred to me that he might best decline a few invitations as a social gesture. I had to look at the masthead to see where this guy is coming from. Is life in New Jersey so different?

[Lady T]

(I do in fact take flowers if I know the host likes to drink gunch.)

My most frequent guest gift is Champagne if I'm going to do a beverage at all; it's versatile, and the results will be happy whether they open it at the gathering or not. Generally I don't bring along anything high-end or exotic unless (1) the host specifically asks me to pair for a particular course or (2) the host is a very close friend whose socks I wish to knock off with some neat discovery s/he hasn't ever tasted.

[Craig Camp]

When I cook I have VERY specific and a well thought out plan for the wines I wish to serve and why I want to serve them with this or that particular dish. Often this entails opening and/or decanting wines hours in advance. I really do not welcome intrusion into this plan and will save the gift bottles for later - often making a point to serve them the next time the person that gave that bottle is a guest.

A larger cookout or informal buffet is another matter. The more casual the event, the more I welcome guests bringing bottles and creating a kind of impromptu tasting. In this situation I feel obligated to open all the bottles. Of course having lots of half-full bottles hanging around our house is normal - much to the pleasure of my wife.

[maggiethecat]

If you cultivate your friends properly, I find that they can acclimate themselves fairly well to drinking hundreds or thousands of dollars of your wine rather than the Turning Leaf that they would have served!

Vero!

If a oeno buddy wants to discuss food and pairings before my party (and buy it!) that is one cool buddy.

Otherwise, I consider that bottle a gift, and wait for the pleasant moment when I can open it and drink a toast to the taste and generosity of the kind giver.

A note on flowers: I love flowers. But! please bring them in a vase. Oh, the scores of times I've had to neglect the hors d'oeuvres to Deal With The Flowers.

Edited May 14, 2003 by maggiethecat (log)

[tunina]

When I cook I have VERY specific and a well thought out plan for the wines I wish to serve and why I want to serve them with this or that particular dish. Often this entails opening and/or decanting wines hours in advance. I really do not welcome intrusion into this plan and will save the gift bottles for later - often making a point to serve them the next time the person that gave that bottle is a guest.

Before you think about wine as a gift to a party with food, I believe you must think about your host and the other guests first.

For a party at Craig's house, I would not bring wine as a gift, based on the above quote, however there have plenty of times that I have been invited to a party where the host and the guests were very happy I brought wine. I also ask if I can assist the host of such parties in serving the wine or answering questions about the wine if possible. I find this makes the host feel more comfortable about a wine being served to his/her guests that they may know nothing about. This also helps the guests learn alittle more about what they are drinking. Often enough I've noticed it helps break the ice between unfamilar guests and inspires some good conversation.

[Craig Camp]

For a party at Craig's house, I would not bring wine as a gift, based on the above quote

What can I say - we hard core wine geeks are hard to deal with. We force you to drink all that old stuff in our cellars.

[Bill Klapp]

For a party at Craig's house, I would expect him to pass out bottles as gifts. He is, after all, a wine professional...

[tunina]

For a party at Craig's house, I would not bring wine as a gift, based on the above quote

What can I say - we hard core wine geeks are hard to deal with. We force you to drink all that old stuff in our cellars.

Yeh, I guess you guys have to get rid of all that wine somehow!

[weinoo]

I remember a while ago bringing a bottle of Stoli or Ketel or Grey Goose (well, obviously I don't remember that well!) to a party at someone's home who was an avid vodka drinker - they then proceded to serve me a vodka on the rocks with something like Fleischman's or Polski - yipes@!

[tommy]

JAZ, i didn't read it like that. i often "insist" to friends that i'll be doing something nice for them. people always say "oh, don't bring anything" when clearly the party will be better if i bring some well-thought-out selections. however, this obviously depends on what type of relationship one has with their friends. mine have no problems with me "insisting" and making sure that the argeement is made up front that they should not buy any jug wine for their parties.

[GordonCooks]

I still feel that the author's approach is egotistical and presumptuous. He (she?) doesn't ask, he just makes an announcement. And that "I establish the rules" line just galls me.

Maybe not when you put it the following context

The party go-ers are all wine lovers.

You wish to assist the host of some wine duties in terms of choice and expense.

Wine is always better when enjoyed with friends.

[JAZ]

I still feel that the author's approach is egotistical and presumptuous. He (she?) doesn't ask, he just makes an announcement. And that "I establish the rules" line just galls me.

Maybe not when you put it the following context

The party go-ers are all wine lovers.

You wish to assist the host of some wine duties in terms of choice and expense.

Wine is always better when enjoyed with friends.

I think what bothers me so much about this article is the author's unspoken assumption that his taste (and therefore his wine) is so much better than that of any host that might invite him to a party. Now, it might very well be true, but his approach just seems to me to be flaunting it and insulting the host. And what if the host doesn't like Zinfandel with ribs? What then? She's just supposed to put up with her guest's choice?

I don't think it's rude to bring the wine for a dinner party -- it can be a wonderful gesture. But I think there are much more tactful ways to go about it than to ram one's choices down the host's throat. What's wrong with asking if the host wants you to bring wine, rather than announcing it as a fait accompli?

I mean, I cook a lot better than most of my friends, but when they ask me over for dinner, I'd hardly announce that I was going to bring the main course, even if that would mean that I'd eat better food.

Tommy: it's another thing entirely if you already have this sort of relationship with your friends. And maybe that's the sort of circumstances the author had in mind, but it certainly wasn't stated. He made it sound like he does it with everyone.

[tommy]

Tommy: it's another thing entirely if you already have this sort of relationship with your friends. And maybe that's the sort of circumstances the author had in mind, but it certainly wasn't stated. He made it sound like he does it with everyone.

i think you might be making some assumptions and reading way too much into what i see as an innocent enough article, and an article that deals with a subject that even experts such as myself sometimes question.

[Bux]

We all make assumptions and read things into articles, but I don't see Janet as being very creative here. I think the author came on a bit too strong and as the article continued, I began to get turned off. I have plenty of friends who know more about wine than I do, but I'd be offended by the suggestion that anyone ask my guests to chip in and buy better wine than I plan on serving.

The author starts off with the premise that it makes sense to out host the host in what's an ungracious and most anti-Emily-Post-like suggestion. You brought the gift, but it doesn't hold that you know better than the host what to do with that gift. On rereading this I find the concept that a guest is force-fed anything by the host truly offensive, but maybe I miss the toungue in cheek humor.

[tommy]

well i do pretty much what the author suggests, i have friends who find it wonderful, and no one has ever been hurt or felt steamrolled by my suggestion. i suppose it depends on the circles in which one socializes.

aside from the "chipping-in" bit, the approach seems innocuous enough.

edit: upon further review, i see that the "chipping-in" bit is referencing a higher-end pre-dinner tasting. clearly this is a step beyond "dinner with wine." the article is offering yet another way to make everyone's night more interesting. for shame.

Edited May 14, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Katherine]

I've been distressed to see that a host opens a wine I bought when I didn't know what was being served for dinner. But they mean well, so it's probably a better quality wine than they were expecting to serve, and it means they didn't match their wine to the food anyway.

It would be more distressing if someone showed up to my house with a bottle of pink zinfandel and expected me to open and serve it. I guess I'd have to make some sort of lame excuse to keep it from happening.

Even though I consider myself capable of doing adequate wine matching, I'd be glad if someone suggested (nicely!) that they wanted to shoulder the expense and responsibility of providing wine, as long as they made it clear to me that they were at least as capable as I.

I think that in the case that the article opens with, there's something wrong with expecting to serve expensive, carefully thought out wine at a real cookout. As far as I'm concerned, table wine would be just fine and a great wine is overkill.