Two wines I bought in the Bronx today

[Jason Perlow]

I did some wine and liquor shopping in the Bronx today at Mt. Carmel wines, a reputable wine shop in the Arthur Avenue section of the Bronx.

As I am not that knowledgeable about Barolos and Barberas (two varieties of Italian wines I really like) I left myself in the hands of the store manager, who pointed me at two that he considered to be good values:

Ceretto Barolo "Zonchera" de Alba, 1997, $39

Vietti Barbera D'Alba Tre Vigne, 1999, $19.99

any experiences with these two?

[KatieLoeb]

Jason:

The Ceretto winery is widely known for being one of the more progressive and modern wineries in Piedmont. I have not tried the particular wine you just purchased, but we carry the Ceretto Arneis here on our wine list and it's delicious and quite popular. A bottle of Barolo from such well regarded producers for $39 seems like a pretty good value to me.

Report back on both bottles!

I also must ask. Does the bottle of Ceretto Barolo say DOCG or DOC on the label, or not? That would explain a lot about how it was produced, and whether or not the winemakers stayed within the rigid rules of Italian wine law. If it doesn't say either, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It might mean that the Ceretto brothers decided to do something scandalous like mix another "non-approved" varietal into the blend, or age it in a different manner than law permits. Without "outlaws" like that, Italian wine would be stagnated in it's development and there would be no such thing as "Super Tuscan" wine. The world (and I) would be far worse for it, IMHO.

edited to add last question

Edited April 19, 2003 by KatieLoeb (log)

[Jason Perlow]

The barolo has a DOCG seal on it. AAG 05874052, "BAROLO", Denominazione Di Origine Controllata E Garantita.

[awbrig]

Please send this bottle to me asap so I may inspect it...Cant guarantee return delivery...

Edited April 19, 2003 by awbrig (log)

[pixelchef]

I've had their Barolo Zonchera before, Jason.

It's deep. A soft bouquet that is pretty smooth but lingers. Tannins are limited, but well-rounded. Aromas of lush, dark fruits and and brown spices. I'd summarize it as having "earthy complexities". It goes well with roasts, stews, game, other red meats. $39 for the 1997 seems like a great value to me.

[Craig Camp]

I did some wine and liquor shopping in the Bronx today at Mt. Carmel wines, a reputable wine shop in the Arthur Avenue section of the Bronx.

As I am not that knowledgeable about Barolos and Barberas (two varieties of Italian wines I really like) I left myself in the hands of the store manager, who pointed me at two that he considered to be good values:

Ceretto Barlolo "Zonchera" de Alba, 1997, $39

Vietti Barbera D'Alba Tre Vigne, 1999, $19.99

any experiences with these two?

Ya' done good laddie.

Drink 'em up. They ain't fer keepin'

Edited April 19, 2003 by Craig Camp (log)

[Craig Camp]

I did some wine and liquor shopping in the Bronx today at Mt. Carmel wines, a reputable wine shop in the Arthur Avenue section of the Bronx.

As I am not that knowledgeable about Barolos and Barberas (two varieties of Italian wines I really like) I left myself in the hands of the store manager, who pointed me at two that he considered to be good values:

Ceretto Barlolo "Zonchera" de Alba, 1997, $39

Vietti Barbera D'Alba Tre Vigne, 1999, $19.99

any experiences with these two?

Now that I am awake again -

Ceretto is a solid producer of all the Piemontese wines, including this well-made Barolo. The 1997 vintage was too much of a good thing and many of the grapes came in over-ripe. This makes for an early maturing vintage. Decant this wine for 3 or more hours and it is ready to enjoy.

The Vietti Barbera is a very pretty wine, zesty with a bright freshness. No need to age this one either. Breathing not required.

[Craig Camp]

Jason:

The Ceretto winery is widely known for being one of the more progressive and modern wineries in Piedmont.  I have not tried the particular wine you just purchased, but we carry the Ceretto Arneis here on our wine list and it's delicious and quite popular.  A bottle of Barolo from such well regarded producers for $39 seems like a pretty good value to me.

Report back on both bottles!

I also must ask.  Does the bottle of Ceretto Barolo say DOCG or DOC on the label, or not?  That would explain a lot about how it was produced, and whether or not the winemakers stayed within the rigid rules of Italian wine law.  If it doesn't say either, it's not necessarily a bad thing.  It might mean that the Ceretto brothers decided to do something scandalous like mix another "non-approved" varietal into the blend, or age it in a different manner than law permits.  Without "outlaws" like that, Italian wine would be stagnated in it's development and there would be no such thing as "Super Tuscan" wine.  The world (and I) would be far worse for it, IMHO.

edited to add last question

When Barolo is used on a label it must be DOCG. There is no DOC Barolo anymore. If a nebbiolo from Barolo does not meet DOCG regulations it becomes DOC Langhe Rosso. Nebbiolo d'Alba is a distinct DOC and is not declassified Barolo.

[Robin Meredith]

Craig may have a point about the 1997 vintage, but the Ceretto Barolo Zonchera can improve with age in some vintages - I was very pleasantly surprised by a bottle of the 1989 I pulled out of the cellar not too long ago. Since this tends to be one of the least expensive bottlings by any of the better-known producers in the area, my expectations weren't that high, but the wine was absolutely lovely, and seemed to have the potential for even more positive development with some additional bottle age.

One side note on Mt. Carmel - I know it's a favorite around here, but I find their pricing absolutely unsupportable. I'm a major wine junkie and I take frequent field trips to Arthur Avenue, but I will never set foot inside the place again (that sounds harsher than it should, since I haven't had any actively negative experiences there, but I just don't see the point in shopping in a store with blatantly non-competitive pricing). If you decide to pick up some more of the Zonchera, shop around - you're bound to find a much better price somewhere else (it's a widely distributed bottling by Barolo standards).

[Craig Camp]

Craig may have a point about the 1997 vintage, but the Ceretto Barolo Zonchera can improve with age in some vintages - I was very pleasantly surprised by a bottle of the 1989 I pulled out of the cellar not too long ago.  Since this tends to be one of the least expensive bottlings by any of the better-known producers in the area, my expectations weren't that high, but the wine was absolutely lovely, and seemed to have the potential for even more positive development with some additional bottle age.

One side note on Mt. Carmel - I know it's a favorite around here, but I find their pricing absolutely unsupportable.  I'm a major wine junkie and I take frequent field trips to Arthur Avenue, but I will never set foot inside the place again (that sounds harsher than it should, since I haven't had any actively negative experiences there, but I just don't see the point in shopping in a store with blatantly non-competitive pricing).  If you decide to pick up some more of the Zonchera, shop around - you're bound to find a much better price somewhere else (it's a widely distributed bottling by Barolo standards).

I agree with Robin. It sounds like you can find better pricing than that elsewhere. I also agree with his aging comments - I just don't trust the 97 vintage.

[Jason Perlow]

Cool, if I like the Zonchera (I only bought one bottle, I bought 2 Viettis) I'll see if I can pick it up cheaper elsewhere. I thought 40 bucks for a Barolo was decent, though.

[Jason Perlow]

One side note on Mt. Carmel - I know it's a favorite around here, but I find their pricing absolutely unsupportable.  I'm a major wine junkie and I take frequent field trips to Arthur Avenue, but I will never set foot inside the place again (that sounds harsher than it should, since I haven't had any actively negative experiences there, but I just don't see the point in shopping in a store with blatantly non-competitive pricing).  If you decide to pick up some more of the Zonchera, shop around - you're bound to find a much better price somewhere else (it's a widely distributed bottling by Barolo standards).

I dunno about Mt. Carmel's pricing. The guy gave me a sweet deal, $104 on a bottle of 1965 vintage Calvados, and $49 for a bottle of 1986 Villa Zarri Acquavite di Vino Trebbiano. Maybe people just dont buy that kind of brandy too much and he was looking to unload it, but thats not the kind of stuff you can buy at a typical wine/liquor store, even at those prices. Maybe its because I spoke to Ramon in Spanish and he took a liking to me, I dunno.

[Craig Camp]

Cool, if I like the Zonchera (I only bought one bottle, I bought 2 Viettis) I'll see if I can pick it up cheaper elsewhere. I thought 40 bucks for a Barolo was decent, though.

No $40 is good for a Barolo with reputation, but there are a lot of deals out there now because the market is soft.

[KatieLoeb]

When Barolo is used on a label it must be DOCG. There is no DOC Barolo anymore. If a nebbiolo from Barolo does not meet DOCG regulations it becomes DOC Langhe Rosso. Nebbiolo d'Alba is a distinct DOC and is not declassified Barolo.

Craig:

Thank you for the clarifications. I was thinking more about the strictly IGT wines from great producers that are forced to declassify because they're being "punished" for being progressive and modern winemakers.

It's funny how strict the regulations are in some cases, and how fast and loose they play it with some other things.

[Jason Perlow]

More barberas purchased this weekend at a local wine store:

2000 Michele Chiarlo Barbera D'Asti DOC, $11.99.

This one makes me nervous because the producer isn't in David Lynch's book, but hey it was dirt cheap:

2000 Villa Jolanda Barbera D'Asti DOC, $10.99

I also picked up a 10 dollar primitivo but I didn't think it was worth mentioning since I intend to cook with it.

[Craig Camp]

More barberas purchased this weekend at a local wine store:

2000 Michele Chiarlo Barbera D'Asti DOC, $11.99.

This one makes me nervous because the producer isn't in David Lynch's book, but hey it was dirt cheap:

2000 Villa Jolanda Barbera D'Asti DOC, $10.99

I also picked up a 10 dollar primitivo but I didn't think it was worth mentioning since I intend to cook with it.

Ouch - The Chiarlo should run about $9. I've seen it at $7 on sale. It is solid, but commercial wine. Find a pizza fast.

The Jolanda I have never heard of and is not in any of the guides. Who is the importer?

Alert - the primitivo could be better than either of these depending on who made it. You may be cooking with the wrong bottle.

[Jason Perlow]

More barberas purchased this weekend at a local wine store:

2000 Michele Chiarlo Barbera D'Asti DOC, $11.99.

This one makes me nervous because the producer isn't in David Lynch's book, but hey it was dirt cheap:

2000 Villa Jolanda Barbera D'Asti DOC, $10.99

I also picked up a 10 dollar primitivo but I didn't think it was worth mentioning since I intend to cook with it.

Ouch - The Chiarlo should run about $9. I've seen it at $7 on sale. It is solid, but commercial wine. Find a pizza fast.

The Jolanda I have never heard of and is not in any of the guides. Who is the importer?

Alert - the primitivo could be better than either of these depending on who made it. You may be cooking with the wrong bottle.

The Primitivo is a Masseria Del Pilone 2002 Primitivo Salento, IGT.

Ouch on the Barberas. Guess you cant get winners everyime.

Analyzing the Jolanda bottle, it says SOLE USA AGENTS Leonard Kreusch Inc, Northvale NJ. The dudes I bought it from! It said it was bottled by Santero SPA - S. Stefano Belbo.

[Craig Camp]

Alas, I do not know that producer, but there is a lot of wine in Italy. These wines are probably all fine. Just don't expect to see God.

[Jason Perlow]

I'll be sure to drag the David Lynch book with me next time.

[Double 0]

I would be on the lookout for Italian Brunellos and some Barolos from the 1997 vintage along with white burgandys from the 97, 98, and 99 vintages at "closeout" (read dump) prices. According to my local wine salesman there has been a grat deal of consolidatoin in the NY, NJ area and the new larger companies have alot of inventory to dump. I purchased a number of items and will post some prices and my impressions of the wines tomorrow.

[Craig Camp]

I would be on the lookout for Italian Brunellos and some Barolos from the 1997 vintage along with white burgandys from the 97, 98, and 99 vintages at "closeout" (read dump) prices. According to my local wine salesman there has been a grat deal of consolidatoin in the NY, NJ area and the new larger companies have alot of inventory to dump. I purchased a number of items and will post some prices and my impressions of the wines tomorrow.

Listen to Double O. Lots of bargains out there. Smart buyers are in a position to make a killing like no time in the last 15 years.

[Jason Perlow]

I would be on the lookout for Italian Brunellos and some Barolos from the 1997 vintage along with white burgandys from the 97, 98, and 99 vintages at "closeout" (read dump) prices. According to my local wine salesman there has been a grat deal of consolidatoin in the NY, NJ area and the new larger companies have alot of inventory to dump. I purchased a number of items and will post some prices and my impressions of the wines tomorrow.

Excellent Double0, looking forward to your report.

[Double 0]

I was at Patterson Super savers (Patterson, NJ) last week and purcased the following:

Il Poggiolo Sassello Brunnello Di Montalcino 5 star 1995

This wine was a bit of a brute, the first taste was very closed and tannic, after 30 minutes in the bottle it still hadn't opened much. I probably should have decanted it and let it sit for a hour before retasting. BTW the storage wasn't perfect because the cork was stained half way up. $24.99

IL Sodaccio DI Montevertine 1997

One of my favorite producers in the mid 1980's, then the prices got out of hand. This wine was a bit on the light side (compared to other Montevertines), but nice fruit and ready to drink right now. Again not great storage for the same reason. $11.99 a real steal.

Both these bottles were drank at home at dinner consisting of green salad with roquefort dressing, mussels topped with tomato concasse and pepper crusted NY strip steaks.

I also purchased Domaine Ramonet Chassagne-Montrachet 1999 ($19.99) and Michel Colin-Deleger Chassagne-Montrachet 1 Cru Les Chevnevottes 1998 ($14.99). I'll be drinkiing these two on Fri at a Bday party and will let you know.

[Craig Camp]

I  IL Sodaccio DI Montevertine 1997

One of my favorite producers in the mid 1980's, then the prices got out of hand.  This wine was a bit on the light side (compared to other Montevertines), but nice fruit and ready to drink right now. Again not great storage for the same reason. $11.99 a real steal.

My God - 97 Monte Vertine wines on closeout! What is the world coming to.

[Robin Meredith]

OMG on those white burg prices also - Colin-Deleger Premier Cru fo $14.99!!!!!!

Please do report back - fire sale burgundy really makes me nervous (I've been burned by a few that were obviously cooked in transit), but that could be worth a road trip to Paterson!