Where there's smoke...

[carswell]

St-Hubert BBQ chain goes totally non-smoking

The public reacted warmly when St-Hubert announced in January its restaurants would be completely smoke-free as of May 1, says Jean-Pierre Léger, chief executive officer of the restaurant chain. In fact, he says, sales have gone up four per cent since the announcement.

[Mr. Fagioli]

Even when I'm losing the battle to keep myself smoke-free, I like a smoke-free restaurant. And while we wait for a legislated ban (I'll put my guess at two more years for restos, five for bars), it's good that more and more restaurants are going smoke-free. Cheers to St. Hubert, even if I haven't set foot in one for 10 years or more...

[phedre]

Smokeless dining is a GODSEND! I'm still having trouble adjusting to the number of smokers in Montreal compared to other places I've lived (Newfoundland and Nova Scotia)

There's nothing worse than walking out of a cafe or a restaurant with smoky hair and clothes :/ I'll almost always go directly home and shower. Especially with long hair; it keeps drifting into your face and reminding you of where you've been.

Not to mention the way it interferes with the enjoyment of the food! If there's one thing that'll keep me away from ever being a smoker, it's the link between that and deadened tastebuds!

[carswell]

Le Faubourg Ste-Catherine turned smoke-free on May 1. Do I detect a trend?

[Thesorus]

It's about time ... the ball is rolling ...

[carswell]

Not to mention the way it interferes with the enjoyment of the food! If there's one thing that'll keep me away from ever being a smoker, it's the link between that and deadened tastebuds!

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Dense second-hand smoke can interfere with the appreciation of aromas and thus taste. One of the reasons I stopped going to L'Entrepont was because it quickly became smoked filled on busy evenings to the point where it was absolutely impossible to smell your wine.

That smoking deadens the smoker's tastebuds is less clear. Many top wine tasters are also heavy smokers. On an anecdotal level, when I gave up smoking, I didn't notice any improvement in my ability to taste and smell, though I did suddenly find second-hand smoke irritating in the extreme.

[sf&m]

It's funny how in all these cities/states etc. that goes non-smoking it's preceeded but this uproar, sturm-und-drang that all restos will have to close and all bars will go out of business. It happened in California, first with restaurants then with bars - not being a smoker I forget how far we've gotten but I don't think you can smoke there indoors in any public space anymore. Did the restos and bars suffer - no way. My old hardcore Italian bar "Gino and Carlos" in North Beach still have the still clientel, still sucking down the same drinks. A few characters hang out by the entrance smoking and once in while by 2 am a smoke or two is probaly had by the bar.... but life goes on.

And I bet even smokers like it better.... for sure the bartenders can go home healthier.

Last time back in Sweden they had the same stupid discussions, restos closing, bars out of business, politicians and union officals beating their chests, same lame arguments. Then it happens and .....nothing happens...

So... it will happen in Montreal and (almost) everybody will like it.... I think it will INCREASE US customer based business for Montreal Restos. People with $$'s to spend and time to spend in Montreal are likely health aware and turned off by tobacco smoke.

Caveat.... sending folks outside to a St Laurent sidewalk in January at 35 below IS cruel, even if they are smokers... so we'll have to erect smokers tents I guess.

It's amazing how fast an ingrained gross behavior can change once it's not cool anymore...

Like 70's men clothing and Spittons in bars, just to mention two other centuries.

Then there is always Swedish Snuff for the hardcore nicotine freak. Oh, yeah!

Edited May 3, 2005 by sf&m (log)

[blork]

Count me in as being in favor of the smoking bans! People will not stop going to bars and restaurants because of a smoking ban, plain and simple. On the other hand, there are plenty of people who have stopped going to bars and restaurants (or have at least cut back considerably) because of the *lack* of a smoking ban.

I'm one of them.

When (not if) the ban becomes universal, I will likely find myself going out more, and so will thousands of other people who previously turned their backs on smoky bars and cafes. In other words, a smoking ban will likey INCREASE business, not decrease it.

[Thesorus]

I just read on cyberpresse.ca that there will be a ban on cigarettes in bars and restaurants starting january 2006 ... that's in 6 months .folks ...

Cyberpresse.ca article

[onionbreath]

I don't understand the resistance. Have been to packed bars in L.A. and NYC that are smoke free and full of atmosphere and great cocktails. What's the problem?

[Mr. Fagioli]

I just read on cyberpresse.ca that there will be a ban on cigarettes in bars and restaurants starting january 2006 ... that's in 6 months .folks ...

Cyberpresse.ca article

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You left one out: bars, restaurants, and schoolyards!

I'm pleased that my pessimistic predictions are going to fall by the wayside. (I still cling to a note of pessimism, because promising legislation has a way of disappearing.)

I don't understand the resistance.  Have been to packed  bars in L.A. and NYC that are smoke free and full of atmosphere and great cocktails. What's the problem?

←

Here's my admittedly sketchy hypothesis:

First, you must always remember that cigarettes are both legal and powerfully addictive. That means that smokers often claim to be persecuted by anti-tobacco legislation. And they will rarely describe themselves as "addicts" unless they really want to quit -- ever notice how news reporters can always find a smoker ready to defend the "choice" to smoke? This just gives a thin veneer of credibility to the persecution claim.

Second: restaurants and bars are the last indoor public spaces where smoking is permitted (vs. pretty much everywhere but operating rooms 25 years ago), so smokers wind up dominating the bars and people develop a stronger and stronger tendency to associate drinking and smoking. The knee-jerk reaction becomes "it'll never work here" (because smoking at the bar is an institution of sorts) and, for the owners, "but most of my customers smoke!"

I think it will be ugly in Montreal and elsewhere in Quebec for a while, but as in NYC even most of the hardcore smokers will look back and see that it was worthwhile.

[sf&m]

As I mentioned above, when it happend in San Francisco it wasn't a problem - even in bars.

But we do have a benign climate.

It probably would have been good if the change happend here in Montreal in the summer so smokers had time to adjust come winter. It's a big difference being chased out on the street if it's -30 deg!

It's important that resto owners and everyone makes this as easy as possible, special ventilated rooms, maybe som shelterd nook on the sidewalk. Let's try to make it as easy as possible on those that smoke, rather than ban and damn. We all benefit from that.

[carswell]

CBC: Bar owners fuming over proposed smoking ban

The province's bar owners say that will hurt their business.

"In Ottawa, in Ontario, which was one of the first cities [to ban smoking in bars], sales were down by 30 per cent in some instances," says Suzanne Langelier of the bar owners association.

Right. Of course, Ottawa smokers desperate to light up while imbibing could hop across the river to Hull (aka Ottawa's ashtray). Ms. Langelier doesn't say whether she thinks we're going to see smokers' runs to Plattsburgh, Derby Line and Edmundston...

Restaurants OK with ban

The Quebec Restaurant Association says that as long as food is being served, smoking should be banned, in order to achieve a level playing field among different types of establishments.

[Mr. Fagioli]

Word is now that the ban might be imposed next May, not January. This is probably not a bad thing, as bar patrons will be much more willing to ease into it by stepping outside. I expect the bar owners are just getting started on raising their predictable stink (so to speak), so it's unlikely this story is anywhere near over...

[ItalianFoodJunkie]

It's about time they ban smoking in restaurants. As a restaurant manager, non-smokers are starting to get very aggressive when they walk into my restaurant and smell smoke. Many patrons look at me as I am the culprit. As I explain to them, I can't wait till they ban smoking, however it is not my call to ban smoking in my restaurant only. That would give my competitors and edge. And in my opinion be very undemocratic, if the government (the people) say we can smoke, who am I to tell people they can't. What do you guys think; Is it right or wrong for restauranters to take the law in their own hands and banning smoking before the law comes into effect?

With the size of my restaurant it would be fair to say i need those smoker dollars to survive.

But I have worked in smaller restaurants, where smokers would smoke up the whole place, a no smoking rule would not have effected us.

[Mr. Fagioli]

It's about time they ban smoking in restaurants. As a restaurant manager, non-smokers are starting to get very aggressive when they walk into my restaurant and smell smoke. Many patrons look at me as I am the culprit. As I explain to them, I can't wait till they ban smoking, however it is not my call to ban smoking in my restaurant only. That would give my competitors and edge. And in my opinion be very undemocratic, if the government (the people) say we can smoke, who am I to tell people they can't. What do you guys think; Is it right or wrong for restauranters to take the law in their own hands and banning smoking before the law comes into effect?

With the size of my restaurant it would be fair to say i need those smoker dollars to survive.

But I have worked in smaller restaurants, where smokers would smoke up the whole place,  a no smoking rule would not have effected us.

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Until the government ban comes, I think restaurateurs are completely within their rights to ban smoking (or not) as they see fit. It's not really taking the law into their own hands, IMO, but simply setting a house rule, not unlike a dress code. With far more benefits than any dress code.

And this may have no bearing on your establishment, but so far it seems that places that go non-smoking are seeing increased business, probably because non-smokers either tend to spend more, or spend less time at their table. (I think the second possibility sounds more plausible.)

[poutine]

You can't smoke in public places so why not extend it to restaurants & bars? I will only go to a bar if I'm dragged there because I feel & smell like I've smoked a pack & a half by the time I walk out. And if I walk into a restaurant with the smokers too close to the non-smokers, I simply leave.

Haven't they banned smoking in most (if not all?) major metropolitan areas in North America? NYC is no-smoking, ditto for Toronto. I don't know it it's rumour or truth but I heard that you can't smoke on the beaches in California. Patrons adapt & hey, a fully enforced smoking ban may even prompt some people to quit.

And the number one reason for banning smoking, the food tastes better.

[cook-em-all]

First of all, restaurants and Bars are not public property they are private property.

Secondly, I do not know why the government does let the business owner decide whether they want a full non-smoking policy or not. The public can then choose what restaurant or bar they want to go to.

[winesonoma]

And here in California it has not hurt business one bit. Just put a bench outside for them. At least the rest of us no longer have to stink like an ashtray.

[peppyre]

Vancouver became completely smoke-free a few years ago and at first there was absolute outrage from pup owners in the smaller communities. The felt that they would loose all of their business, in fact, many nightclubs and bars in the city felt the same way. I was still smoking at the time and it was annoying to go outside to smoke if you were at a bar or a nightclub, but everyone here got used to it pretty fast. I don't think many businesses suffered and now it's just normal to walk in to a bar and not smell smoke. What's better, after a night of clubbing, you don't come home smelling like you've been in a locked room smoking for 12 hours straight. Granted, our weather is nothing like Montreal's and I sure as hell would not want to trudge outside to have a cigarette in Dec, but people will adapt. After 6 months, you won't even remember what it was like before.

[maxanon]

I've walked out of places before ordering because of "excessive" smoke. People are free to suck on cancer sticks, but I would like to make the choice as well (and so would the thousands of resto/bar workers).

It can't come any sooner.

[poutine]

Granted, our weather is nothing like Montreal's and I sure as hell would not want to trudge outside to have a cigarette in Dec, but people will adapt.

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People certainly do adapt & quickly. Regardless of the temperature outside, people who need to smoke will go smoke where they are permitted to. That holds true in my workplace, even when it's -30 outside (yes it can get that cold here December-February) people are still outside smoking, albeit quickly. One of our VPs schedules brief "outside" meetings from time to time & that means meet him at the east-side entrance.