Chinese vegetables

[trillium]

Lavender is a better description of that shrimp paste then pinkish-grey... what else do you use it in? How is the taste compared to belecan or gkapi? What do you call it? When we couldn't find belecan in Portland the shopkeepers kept trying to get us to buy it but it looked too different from what we were used to using and the partner didn't go for it. We were told that mostly people from HK use it (but this was by a Hmong guy who ran the store). Is that true or is the use more widespread?

regards,

trillium

[mudbug]

titus wong,

Try browsing this forum specifically on Asian Vegetables.

Click here and scroll down to the thread titled "Do you eat this asian veg?" Then scroll down to the post by ChicoGirl, Thu, Jul 3, 03 at 23:05 for information on picking ideal shoots. Browse that thread and feel free to post your cooking and shrimp paste questions there as well. I'm sure they would be happy to help you. And I'm sure there are other threads regarding that vegetable at that forum.

[titus wong]

Thanks so much, trillium and Hest888, for your informative replies. I think both of you have correctly pinpointed my mistake -- the next time I try my hand at cooking kong xin cai, I'll be sure to chop off most of the bottom stalk. I do appreciate the detail of Hest888's response viz. blanching with sodium bicarbonate. I'll probably get to it this weekend. In retrospect, it should have been obvious that the fault lay in preparation as opposed to the available supply -- I've been pretty impressed with the quality of Asian produce in Chicago so far.

trillium - thanks for your short monograph on the subject of shrimp pastes. I scrutinized the array of Malaysian products at my local Asian grocery and could not spot belecan. I would've asked but the place was mobbed after work and I was itching to get home. I did note that the Malaysian offerings had the common word "onigang" on their labels if that is at all significant. I wasn't blown away by the Filipino product -- it can be succinctly described as being salty and pinkish-red. That's it. I did however, pick up a bottle of spicy fermented tofu of the type to which my grandmother was addicted.

mudbug - I was already aware of the ACCE$$ TO A$IAN VEGETABLE$ THESAURUS, but your other posts detailing further web sources have been very helpful. I am in the process of slowly wading through all the material as time/work permits.

Thank you all!

Edited July 24, 2003 by titus wong (log)

[Sugar Toad]

http://www.evergreenseeds.com This is a good place to get some hard to find veggies seeds (or wegtables as my dear Chinese wife calls them). If you want Asian peppers check out http://www.reimerseeds.com.

I am growing two types of long beans, bok choy, 5 different Thai peppers, and 2 types of lemon grass, kaffir limes, and a lot of Asian basils. I all most forgot I had a really hard time with this one but I have 1 single sprout of Chinese goat horn peppers growing, I have not yet seem the final product.

[mudbug]

Great Photos here thought some of you might enjoy!

[Gary Soup]

There is a vegetable that I order in the states that I think is called something like kong shin tsai.... at least that is what I say and I get the right thing (my friend translates it as "hollow vegetable")...

but everytime I say that here in London, I just get blank stares.  Is it called something else?  Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

The USDA lists it as "Water Spinach" and give the following alternate names:

ong choi

kong xin cai (kong shin

tsai)

chau gan choi

kankun,

rau múon,

swamp cabbage

APHIS Guide to vegetables and herbs

[HKDave]

My first choice would also be dau miu (pea shoots). I prefer the more tender ones you get in North America to the thicker variety usually available here in Hong Kong, quickly sauteed with a little garlic.

I also have grown to like gai lan (kale), with a bit of oyster sauce for dipping on the side. I used to hate this stuff as a child, because it seemed to be the ubiquitous 'eat your vegetables' item in Vancouver Cantonese restaurants back then.

I've recently encountered a new - to me, anyway - Chinese vegetable, which appears on restaurant menus and market signs in Hong Kong as "A" (the English letter) Choi, which just means "A" vegetable. It's similar to romaine lettuce (although it is always is served cooked), with thinner and more pointy leaves. I'm told it's popular in Taiwan. Does anyone know anything about it? I like the taste, and have been using it in cooking, but haven't been able to find out where it got this strange name.

Cheers

Hong Kong Dave

[herbacidal]

I also have grown to like gai lan (kale), with a bit of oyster sauce for dipping on the side. I used to hate this stuff as a child, because it seemed to be the ubiquitous 'eat your vegetables' item in Vancouver Cantonese restaurants back then.

I've recently encountered a new - to me, anyway - Chinese vegetable, which appears on restaurant menus and market signs in Hong Kong as "A" (the English letter) Choi, which just means "A" vegetable. It's similar to romaine lettuce (although it is always is served cooked), with thinner and more pointy leaves. I'm told it's popular in Taiwan. Does anyone know anything about it? I like the taste, and have been using it in cooking, but haven't been able to find out where it got this strange name.

Cheers

Hong Kong Dave

Kale isn't gai lan.

Or at least gai lan isn't the kale I see here, which is the kale I'm used to.

[HKDave]

Herbicidal, we have to resort to Latin to be exact....

Gai Lan is Brassica Oleracea var. Alboglabra, commonly called in English, depending where in the world you are, Chinese kale or Chinese broccoli (which never made sense to me - it's not anything like broccoli).

Kale per your link is (I think) Brassica Napus.

There's a lot of mix and match with names in the Brassicas, which include the various mustard greens, turnips, brocolli, cabbages and brussel sprouts.

Cheers

HKDave

[markk]

There is a vegetable that I order in the states that I think is called something like kong shin tsai....  (my friend translates it as "hollow vegetable")...It is one of my favorites

It's one of my favorites too, and many years ago I asked the Chinese restaurant that introduced me to it to write it down, and I've scanned it. Indeed, when I show this in Chnese restaurants, they say "ong choy" or "tong choy" and call it Chinese Water Spinach or Hollow Vegetable.

I'm also quite fond of Garlic Stems and Pea Tips as well.

Where do people like to eat them? I go to New Lok Kee in Flushing.

[helenjp]

Gosh darn, don't know that the en-sai that I know and love looks very similar to the photo you have there of water convolvulus...but in Japan it is often sold when just coming into flower.

Long beans -- I knew them in English as snake beans. Hard to buy in Japan, but I can sometimes get seed -- has to be sown a little later than regular string beans, as it needs warmer weather, but then you can get young beans at just the right stage.

Why is it that Chinese vegetables have so many English names?!

Somewhere I read that stirfried green veg almost always respond better to seasoning with a little salty water rather than a direct sprinkling of salt, and b'golly they were right -- much crisper texture without excessive wilting.

Oyster sauce?? I don't know why, but the taste has really palled on me. I almost never use it any more.

Red fermented bean curd?....don't I wish I knew where I could buy some!

[jo-mel]

There is a vegetable that I order in the states that I think is called something like kong shin tsai....  (my friend translates it as "hollow vegetable")...It is one of my favorites

It's one of my favorites too, and many years ago I asked the Chinese restaurant that introduced me to it to write it down, and I've scanned it. Indeed, when I show this in Chnese restaurants, they say "ong choy" or "tong choy" and call it Chinese Water Spinach or Hollow Vegetable.

I'm also quite fond of Garlic Stems and Pea Tips as well.

Where do people like to eat them? I go to New Lok Kee in Flushing.

Thanks for the characters. I'd always seen 空 - (kong) for 'ong', but never looked for your character - 'tong'.

Does anyone know of a Chinese food listing - online - in Chinese Characters?

I can get what I want from my online dictionaries, but I was looking for a regular list of ingredients/food that has the character included. I have plenty of lists from my Chinese dictionaries and Chinese cookbooks, but I wanted something from online.

BTW, - has Yu Choy/You Cai been mentioned? I love it!

[chengb02]

so many that i like, mostly like everyone said: long beans, chinese broccoli, baby bok choi...

hmm, one that hasn't been mentioned (and that at certain times I really have a taste for) would be ku gua...

[mudbug]

I've recently encountered a new - to me, anyway - Chinese vegetable, which appears on restaurant menus and market signs in Hong Kong as "A" (the English letter) Choi, which just means "A" vegetable.  It's similar to romaine lettuce (although it is always is served cooked), with thinner and more pointy leaves.  I'm told it's popular in Taiwan.  Does anyone know anything about it?

HKDave,

celtuce photo one

celtuce photo two

The ""A Choy" you're inquiring about, pronounced "ah choy" is a variety of celtuce - which is also known as Stem Lettuce, Asparagus Lettuce, Celery Lettuce and Chinese Lettuce. It is a member of the Asteraceae (sunflower) family. It is also known as "Yu Mai Tsai" in Chinese.

Latin Names:

Lactuca sativa var. augustana

Lactuca sativa var. asparagina

"Though it has a common name of Celtuce, it is not a cross between Lettuce and Celery. It is just a variety of Lettuce grown for its romaine-like foliage and mainly for its thick, edible stem. The stem grows 6 to 8 inches long and about 1½ inches in diameter. They can be cooked like broccoli and tastes like a cross between a mild summer squash and an artichoke." The leaves are usually not considered edible due to the bitter tasting milky sap that forms soon after it matures. But, as with most produce, the key is in knowing when to harvest.

A Choy from Evergreenseeds.com

"This is a vegetable native to Southern Taiwan, thus often called Taiwanese "A" Choy in the Oriental supermarkets on the West Coast. Young leaves are very tender and main stalks are very crispy. Leaves which have unique flavor are very popular and loved by Taiwanese in their stir-fry dishes. Fast growing plants can be harvested at any stage for eating. Easy to grow. A good variety for home gardening."

Common garden lettuce (L. sativa) was known in China in the 5th century, if not earlier. In addition, a form of "stem lettuce" is native to China. The so-called asparagus lettuce and others with long, narrow leaves and tall, thick, succulent, edible stems are of this type. They are grown in America only as curiosities.

source

The leaves may be eaten in salads at a young tender stage. The soft, translucent green central core may be eaten fresh, either sliced or diced into a salad. In China, the fleshy stem is cut into sections and cooked by boiling or stewing. It tastes like a cross between a mild summer squash and an artichoke. It is reported to have 3 times the vitamin C content of lettuce.

source

This source offers eleven different varieties of seed.

Here is a Boiled Beef recipe which includes asparagus lettuce.

helenjp,

>Gosh darn, don't know that the en-sai that I know and love looks very similar to the photo

>you have there of water convolvulus

In English it is most commonly spelled "entsai" and it is the same plant as the ong choy mentioned earlier in this thread, as well as here: Ong Choy Redux.

The "Long beans" you mentioned are commonly called (in English), "snake bean" as you mentioned, "asparagus bean", and most commonly "yard long bean".

>Oyster sauce?? I don't know why, but the taste has really palled on me.

>I almost never use it any more.

Our taste buds usually change every 7 years so don't be surprised if you like oyster sauce again one day. Perhaps it's nature's way of making sure we eat a variety of foods in our lifetime.

>Why is it that Chinese vegetables have so many English names?!

There are a number of reasons for so many names. The primary reason is because English is the most common language in the world, so people try to spell out the names in English according to how they sound in thier native language, and sometimes from a language they may vaguely recollect. This can result in many variations, especially when there are different languages and different dialects within one language. Sometimes names are a result of a literal English translation of the foreign name instead of spelling out how it sounds.

Take "Momordica charantia" for example, most commonly known as "Bitter Melon". Other English names include "Balsam Pear", "Bitter Gourd", "Alligator Pear", and "African Cucumber".

If you look at English versions of the Chinese name, you'll find the following (at least):

Foo Gwa, Foo Kua, Foo Qua, Ku Gua, Fwa Kwa, Fu Gua, Fu Qwa

Notice how if you sound them out, they all essentially sound similar. And this is just Chinese, here is a listing of "Momordica charantia" in other languages:

English: bitter gourd/cucumber, karella, balsam pear, alligator pear, African cucumber

Chinese: ku gua, foo gwa (bitter gourd), jin li zhi (bright beautiful lychee), lao pu tao (ugly grape)

Danish: karela

Dutch: springkomkommer

Filipino: ampalaya, amargoso, paria, palia

French: assorossie, margase, pomme de merveille, momordique a feuilles de vigne

German: Balsamapfel, Wunder-Balsampfel, Bitterer Balsamkürbis

Hindi: karela, kaveli

Indonesian: pare, pare pahit, paria, peria

Italian: balsamini lunghi, pomo balsamo, caranza, vite indiana

Japanese: tsuru reishi, niga-uri

Malay: peria, peria katak

Portuguese: balsamini longa, melão de São Caetano

Spanish: balsamina, calabaza africana, cundeamor, estrpajo

Thai: mara, phakha, maha

Vietnamese: muop dang, khô qua

So you can see why it is so important to use the Latin/Scientific/Botanical name if at all possible. Because no matter where it is used in the world, it is referring to the exact same plant.

Is "Momordica charantia" the correct "ku gua" you mention?

>Red fermented bean curd?....don't I wish I knew where I could buy some!

Red? Did I miss something? If you have any Chinese Grocery stores in your area, you should be able to find some.

jo-mel,

There is a multi-lingual database here, it's not very fast but it's worth the wait. And at the moment, I don't think the server is working correctly.

gary,

Check my post above (Posted: Jul 20 2003, 10:33 PM) regarding ong choy, scroll down to "Akiko , Vanessa is correct."

For all of you interested in ong choy (hollow vegetable) etc., there is an entire thread here devoted to it:

Ong Choy Redux

Whew!

Edited March 2, 2004 by mudbug (log)

[Pan]

404 Not Found on the 2nd celtuce photo.

[mudbug]

Pan, Try it again, should work now.

:)

[jo-mel]

Mudbug --- thanks for that link to the Chinese food data base. It is indeed not working, but I copied the address, and will check from time to time.

About the 'celtuce' / 'asparagus root' ----

The ""A Choy" you're inquiring about, pronounced "ah choy" is a variety of celtuce - which is also known as Stem Lettuce, Asparagus Lettuce, Celery Lettuce and Chinese Lettuce. It is a member of the Asteraceae (sunflower) family. It is also known as "Yu Mai Tsai" in Chinese.

I didn't know it was called Ah Choy or Yu Mai Tsai. I've only known it as

Wu Sun or in Cantonese- Woh Sun. The very first time I had this vegetable, it was in a stir/fry and was still crispy. I was completely taken by it. I've had it since. Sometimes it is too soft, and not as good (to my taste), but it is one of those vegetables that are available in Asian markets --- but don't seem to make it to menus! Too bad.

P.S. - Thanks for all the work giving that information!

Edited March 2, 2004 by jo-mel (log)

[mudbug]

>I didn't know it was called Ah Choy or Yu Mai Tsai.

jo-mel,

It may depend on the dialect and of course, I could be mistaken. But I'm pretty sure the above is correct.

It would be helpful if Evergreenseeds.com would put up the latin names with their seed varieties available for purchase.

If you check out the source above with eleven varieties, you'll see one in particular which has narrow sword shaped leaves which is likely very close to if it isn't already the Taiwan variety.

Then again, it could be a human created hybrid. Any botanists out there who specializes in vegetables? LOL!

Edited March 2, 2004 by mudbug (log)

[SobaAddict70]

I wasn't blown away by the Filipino product -- it can be succinctly described as being salty and pinkish-red.  That's it.

This is the Filipino version of shrimp paste, otherwise known as baguong. Baguong (or bagong) is typically fermented shrimp paste, but can also contain fermented anchovies or other type of fish such as milkfish.

I'm not surprised that you weren't a fan. You're supposed to use a smidge of baguong in whatever you're serving. This substance, much like patis (the Filipino version of nuoc mam) is best used as little as possible. A quantity as little as a 1/2 tsp. will flavor an entire bowl of rice. It's powerful stuff. A freshly opened jar of baguong is almost enough to send many people running for the hills, much like a slice of durian.

My grandmother taught me the best way to use baguong, if you're going to use more than the usual miniscule amount: fry it in oil until the liquid has evaporated and the shrimp paste is dark brown and crumbly. Stir in as much minced raw garlic as you can stand and add a little more just to make sure. Let cool, and use as a garnish or condiment. We use this all the time to accompany kari-kari (oxtail, vegetable and peanut stew).

Soba

[hzrt8w]

A lot of people may not associate melons with stir-fried vegetables, but they are especially preferred over green-leaf vegetables when cooked with dried ingredients such as black mushrooms, lily buds, bean curd sheets, wood ears, fat choy, and such to make a "buddha's feast".

I like stir-frying melons as much as other green-leaf vegetables. Particularly: winter melons, hairy melons, bitter melons, luffa and such.

With bitter melons, I cook them with either "garlic and fermented black beans" or "garlic and foo yu". Both taste good.

With winter melons and hairy melons, I like to start with a little cooking oil, throw in some garlic and dried shrimps (soaked in water for 15 minutes, drained) and salt, dash in 1 tsp of vinegar, put in the melons (cut in cubes), and water (or chicken broth). Note that melons take up a lot of water when they cook, so be generous with the quantity. Drip in some oyster sauce and a bit of sugar. Cook for 15 to 20 minutes with lid on, medium to slow heat, until melons are softened. Then near the end, throw in some mung bean threads (presoaked in water for 30 minutes) so that they will soak up the extra liquid. Cook for 3 to 5 more minutes, done.

[Ben Hong]

They are not ,strictly speaking, melons nor green, but pumpkin or squash cooked with beef, black beans and garlic, with some scallions is one my all time favourites.

[mudbug]

Baker Creek Heirloom seeds probably has the largest selection of Asian vegetable seeds in the US right now: http://www.rareseeds.com

What are you all growing and harvesting this year?

[Dejah]

When we lived on the inherited family homestead, from 1966 - 92, I had a huge garden. Beets, peas, carrots, etc were available from neighboring farms, but Asian vegs were 60 miles away. So. like my mother before me, I grew Chinese vegetables on raised beds. My neighbor came over with his big John Deer tractor and broke up the "new land". I felt like a pioneer.

It took me days to sort out all the grass, haul in very old manure from the hill out in the field, and tilled it all in. Hubby was great as he helped me hill up the dirt into beds.

My mom had brought varieties of seeds from China in 1958. She gave me pill bottles filled with the descendents, with instructions to always let the best plants mature to refill the bottles.

I grew snow peas, green beans, bok choy, guy choy, amaranth, cilantro, chives, garlic, kohlrabi, wolfberry for the seeds and another variety for the leaves, and the variety of tiger lily with the non-toxic edible bulbs.

Never had any luck with lobak, gai lan or long beans. The growing season just wasn't long enough for the long beans but the shorter variety was great. The casing was darker and thicker fleshed.

The aged manure worked wonders! I was able to share the bounty with my family, even tho' they lived in the city and can shop, but as mudbug said, homegrown is best! The kids helped eat up the pea crop by "browsing" in the garden while I worked. Alot of the bak choi was boiled and dried for choi gone. Kohlrabi was eaten like apples, stir-fried or in soup. My neighbors allowed theirs to grow verg big, boiled then mashed as a veg. I liked mine quite young and tender, without any stringiness.

Those times were before I heard about eating pea shoots. I wish I had all those plants now! Not all the garden was used for Chinese veg. I grew alot of herbs too: basil, mint, borage, thyme, rosemary, parsley, oregano, and lots of flowers.

Now, I just have room for flowers and some herbs in container. We have many older generation friends in the city and they provide us with gow gai choi, bok choy, guy choy, fu gwa, mo gwa, sut dow, han choi, and a variety of green beans that is about 20cm x 3 cm! Delicious!

[Yuki]

My grandma grow lots of stuff in her backyard but as she is getting old, the varieties are getting smaller.

Currently she has:

Bok choy, gai lan, snow peas, wolfberry, strawberries, zucchini, and green onion.

Although she doesn't grow a lot of vegetables now but she does exchange with her friends so we end up with too much vegetables in the house.

[hzrt8w]

When we lived on the inherited family homestead, from 1966 - 92, I had a huge garden. Beets, peas, carrots, etc were  available from neighboring farms....... I grew Chinese vegetables on raised beds.

←

Dejah: you didn't use "night soil" to fertilize your garden, did you?