Spices: For or against?

[chromedome]

I read the whole thread from the start. It was rather interesting, in a slow-mo-train-wreck sort of way. I can see why several of those involved are now "legacy participants"!

The original question, stripped of its inherent western paternalism, was an interesting one. Is there a trend, among "ethnic cuisines," to a more subtle approach toward spicing? If there is, does that constitute greater skill and "balance," or does it simply signal a transient response to Western influence?

Personally, my feeling is that the pendulum is shifting in the other direction; in that classically-trained...even French...chefs are integrating a wider variety of spices, and more adventurous levels of spicing, into their cuisine.

Admittedly I don't get out much. But I do read everything I can get my hands on.

I will say that the departed Mr. P's rather narrow definition of a "cuisine" gets my back up in no uncertain fashion. It's difficult to grasp any set of criteria that dismisses the heady flavours of, say, Thai or Keralese cooking as the product of unenlightened and unskillful hands.

[Adam Balic]

The original question, stripped of its inherent western paternalism, was an interesting one.

←

Hey buddy, I prefer "devil's advocate" to "inherent western paternalism".

As for Mr P. and cuisine. This isn't just his position, earlier in the week there was a discussion on "Cuisine" v "Kitchen" where it was proposed that the worlds cusines were French, Chinese and Italian. I have no opinion on such things as I don't understand the discussion.

[marlena spieler]

I L O V E spices.

I love the way a hit of ginger can transform a simple tomato coulis. i love cinnamon in meatballs, cardomom in sauces, i love being smacked on the face with a mysterious concoction of spices and enjoying the discovery of flavours in each bite.....

i feel totally dismayed when ethnic dishes are prepared by western chefs or for western palates and refined to the point of dul.

sometimes this happens esp with vietnamese food, either in paris or in trendy us restos.

mexican too but less so. you can't have mexican food without a few basic spices.

and fresh herbs. maybe i'll start a thread on whats you favourite herb?

when i wrote my book hot and spicy, a million years ago in the 80s, people were like: oh chiles and spices are not refined, they couldn't be really real food, not real cuisine, not the sort that fancy refined people like us take seriously in our foodie magazines and pretentious restaurants, i mean life was like that then........but americans suddenly went chile mad, and chile became chic. which it should be, but then again, i think if its delicious, its chic. refined is often akin to pretentious, in that its all about form rather than substance.

anyhow, spices belong in certain foods, don't belong in others, some cuisines have herbs instead of spices, many cuisines have a tradition of one and not the other (genoese with their fresh herbs, say pesto, say no more.........) or spices and not herbs.

oh i said i wasn't going to post this morning and detract myself from actually doing some work.

but i love spices so........(and herbs).

now i'm going to have breakfast, and have to amend my breakfast to suit the very spicy herby state i'm finding myself in,

x

the very unrefined marlena

Edited August 11, 2005 by marlena spieler (log)

[Milagai]

If you take the British chefs who have been at the forefront of modern British cuisine, people like Gary Rhodes and Paul Heathcote, what inspired them to raise the level of British cuisine is their experience of eating other cuisines outside of Britain. Go eat  a roast chicken in France, or a veal stew in Italy and the clarity of flavors hits you in the face. Chefs do that and they go back to their own country and they say, how can I get my Bubble & Squeak or Sausage and Butter Beans to have the same clarity of flavors. And they improve the local cuisine because they adopt techniques they source elsewhere and they impose it on their own cuisines. All of a sudden they take the way the French prepare their beans for cassoulet and use it in Sausage and Beans and poof, the flavor is amazing.

←

if you start with British food (has the stereotype, deserved or not

or being the ultimate in bland and boring) NO WONDER any influence

of any other cuisine, or any level of spice will be a big step forward.

But if you start with Thai or Indian or (insert favorite spicy cuisine

here) and dumb it down in the (totally wacked out) name of

"refinement" (which, based on this thread, seems = bland)

then it's a giant leap backward....

Speaking just for myself, cooking without spices is not worth eating.

The main ingredient (whether it's beans or beast) is

just a vehicle for the spice blend, whether the dish is dry or

gravied or steamed or fried or whatever.

Milagai

(my e-name here means "red hot chili pepper" in Tamil

so that itself should tell you where I am)

Edited August 11, 2005 by Milagai (log)

[Milagai]

I will say that the departed Mr. P's rather narrow definition of a "cuisine" gets my back up in no uncertain fashion.  It's difficult to grasp any set of criteria that dismisses the heady flavours of, say, Thai or Keralese cooking as the product of unenlightened and unskillful hands.

←

I agree, and am astonished that this position has been dignified

with so many responses, (and here I am adding to them)

rather than just laughed out of court.

Milagai

[Milagai]

The original question, stripped of its inherent western paternalism, was an interesting one.

←

Hey buddy, I prefer "devil's advocate" to "inherent western paternalism".

As for Mr P. and cuisine. This isn't just his position, earlier in the week there was a discussion on "Cuisine" v "Kitchen" where it was proposed that the worlds cusines were French, Chinese and Italian. I have no opinion on such things as I don't understand the discussion.

←

I read a snippet in one of Madhur Jaffrey's cookbooks

about a conversation she had with someone who

said the world's great cuisines were: French, Chinese, and Bengali.

And so it goes.

Milagai

[Behemoth]

The original question, stripped of its inherent western paternalism, was an interesting one.

←

Hey buddy, I prefer "devil's advocate" to "inherent western paternalism".

As for Mr P. and cuisine. This isn't just his position, earlier in the week there was a discussion on "Cuisine" v "Kitchen" where it was proposed that the worlds cusines were French, Chinese and Italian. I have no opinion on such things as I don't understand the discussion.

←

Easy:

1)define French food as having a certain desireable but hard to pin down property: refinement, cuisine, etc.

2) Add a couple of other countries to the list, so you can call it a category

3) without actually defining what it takes to be included in this category

4) When questioned, point out some property of the example that differs from at least one of the members of the existing category, and therefore excludes it from this category.

Okay, I don't understand it either. It just seems like different cuisines have focused on different things. The french like to whip eggs around, the chinese like things that have weird textures, and in india they spend a lot of time thinking about spices.

[BarbaraY]

After a trip to an area in the USA where very few spices are used, one of my best memories of getting home was opening the spice cabinet and just breathing. That and having green salads that weren't made with Lime Jell-o.

Yeah, I think I like spices.

[stephenc]

I support spice

[MarketStEl]

Back to the opening question:

Am I for or against spices?

Yes.

I believe Jinmyo gave an "It depends on what you're cooking" answer way back at the beginning of this thread, and I agree.

In general, spices add interest and flavor to food, and can transform base ingredients into something wonderful. (Cinnamon in meatballs? Hmmm, gotta try that sometime.)

But there are places where adding seasoning or spice is just plain immoral. For instance, to a really good, dry aged steak cooked medium rare. I find that I enjoy many vegetables simply steamed to just where their color brightens, tender but still crisp, with nothing else added. And yet a little tarragon can take green beans to a whole 'nother level.