Corned Beef (and cabbage?)

[bloviatrix]

And can the plastic withstand 212 degrees without melting, or higher if you will be roasting it?

The water is being kept at a simmer. A quick check with the thermometer reveals it's less than 212 degrees.

As for the salt content, hmmm, I'm using a kosher brisket which means it was salted and soaked before the corning. I guess we're just going to have see how it tastes when it's done.

This was a cheap piece of meat (for kosher) - $28 for 3.5 pounds. So, if it sucks, I won't have a problem tossing.

[Adam Balic]

What is the difference between "salting" and "corning"? Just curious about the process and how it may be done differently from non-kosher (orginally the 'corn' in corning refered to the size of the salt lumps used, so corning would be salting).

[bloviatrix]

What is the difference between "salting" and "corning"? Just curious about the process and how it may be done differently from non-kosher (orginally the 'corn' in corning refered to the size of the salt lumps used, so corning would be salting).

For meat to be kosher, the cow must be slaughtered in a specific way and then the meat needs to be preparedas follows.

Once that's done you can begin to corn it.

[Adam Balic]

OK that is the Koshering process, but I am still unclear what you mean by corning? Are you saying that there is another salting (corning?) step on top of the salting to remove blood step?

[bloviatrix]

Corning is a just another term for pickling or brining. Basically, you soak the meat in saline solution with spices.

This might help: Corned Beef vs. Pastrami

[Adam Balic]

OK, is clearer now. Have made non-Kosher Anglo-Irish type Corned beef, this is basically packing the beef in salt, as the salt liquifies you turn the meat in the brine solution, over a number of days. So a little different in process.

[chefdg]

I worked for a Chef once who cooked almost everything sous vide. You can cook the brisket medium yet tender this way, keep the water at about 130 degrees. It will take about 7 hours but is a glimpse into the sous vide world.

[mark922]

I apologize for my ignorance, but what exactly is sous vide?

[bloviatrix]

I apologize for my ignorance, but what exactly is sous vide?

It's placing the food in a vacuum sealed package and placing the package in simmering water for a lengthy period of time.

Bruce Cole has great piece on it over at Saute Wednesday.

[winesonoma]

How did it turn out? Pics?

[bloviatrix]

The bag I was cooking it in burst open. So, it ended up being cooked the usual way -- which is simmering it in water for about 3 hours.

I glazed it with a pineapple-ginger glaze and served it cool. This means the meat wasn't particularly soft. But, it tasted good nonetheless. And, I actually had less shrinkage than usual.

[Suzanne F]

Do you think you'll try it again?

[bloviatrix]

Do you think you'll try it again?

Sans doute.

I even have another a corned beef biding its time in my freezer. Hopefully this one won't explode on me.

Edited June 21, 2004 by bloviatrix (log)

[mark922]

I apologize for my ignorance, but what exactly is sous vide?

It's placing the food in a vacuum sealed package and placing the package in simmering water for a lengthy period of time.

Bruce Cole has great piece on it over at Saute Wednesday.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Fat Guy]

There's a whole set of techniques that falls under the sous vide heading. Restaurants that cook this way have largely moved away from water and are using steam ovens, which are much more precise. And there are all sorts of questions of what you seal into the plastic with the main ingredient in order to flavor it.

I'll be interested to hear the results of the corned beef experiment, but chances are a corned beef brisket that has been seasoned with a lengthy braise in mind is not a great candidate for cooking in a sealed environment. The vacuum pouch tends to amplify flavors, and sometimes there can be too much of a good thing. Also, some of the greatest benefits from sous vide cooking come when you cook at the desired final temperature of the product for many, may hours, rather than doing what is essentially boil-in-bag cooking.

[bloviatrix]

Also, some of the greatest benefits from sous vide cooking come when you cook at the desired final temperature of the product for many, may hours, rather than doing what is essentially boil-in-bag cooking.

Before my bag burst, I had the water at about 150. My plan was to keep the meat in for about 6 hours.

Which leads to another question -- how does one determine the length of time you cook the meat? It's not as if you can stick a meat thermometer into it to determine the internal temp.

[bloviatrix]

I'm hosting a lunch for 8 on Thursday (the jewish holidays are slowly drawing to a close) and one of my main courses will be a corned beef. Normally, I throw it into a pot with boiling water for about 3 hours, remove and cool, then slice, paint with glaze and bake for about 30 mintues. It's always good, but I would like the meat to be a little more tender.

So, I was thinking.....corned beef is brisket that's been corned. So, why can't I treat it like a brisket. Does anyone have any experience braising a brisket? I was thinking of putting in a large dutch oven with a bit of liquid and placing it in a 300 oven for 3.5 hours -- painting it with the glaze after 3 hours. Will this work? Will it be too salty?

Why do you boil a corned beef anyway?

[NancyH]

I always braise my brisket at about 325 degrees for as long as it takes to get tender. I braise in a tomato-based sauce, I suppose you could use the same liquid you would have boiled it in - it will boil in the oven. I have never tried to "glaze" a brisket, I just cook it until it is falling apart (which may be too much for corned beef).

Let us know how it works for you!

[bloviatrix]

You know how really good brisket melts in your mouth and is really soft? That's the texture I want for the corned beef.

[reesek]

braising...great idea, and i'm sure it would work brilliantly. i think you'll want at the very least to well wash the corning spices off (assuming you're buying it the way my mom did - in a bag with pickling/corning seasonings applied) and possibly blanch it to get some more of the salt out...my mom made ribs the same way she made corned beef (boiled then baked) - they were always tougher than slow braised or long roasted. would you roast/bake it at the end, to get the slightly crisp bits on the edge and top?

[Carrot Top]

I think the 'boiling in water' part is for the purpose of extracting the large amounts of salt that originally were used in 'corning' the beef.

No reason why the change from stove-top to oven could not be done as long as the close-to-simmering point was kept during cooking...then finished up by draining and glazing. At the very least, it is a way to obtain more burners if you need them for cooking.

I have a recipe for home-made corned beef if anyone has an urge to do that, by the way. Kinda fun.

[bloviatrix]

CT -- you've given me an idea. I'm going to soak the corned beef in cold water for a couple of hours to pull out some of the salt. I've done this with skirt steak (kosher skirt steak is extremely salty!!) and it works.

[Smoky "T"]

I don't think your suppose to boil corn beef, maybe that's why it's tough.

Here my recipie if you'd like to try it. I get raves for my corn beef, even my best friend who loaths it loves mine. I always make a bigger one so I can share some with her and her husband.

Smoky "T"s Corn Beef with Potatoes

3 lbs Corned Beef Brisket

Light Chicken Stock (or enough water to just cover the brisket with Better Than Bouillon Chicken Base added, about 2-3 Tbs.

The spice packet that comes with brisket

1 Tb. german viniger, or cider

10 pepper corns

1/2 teasp. celery salt

1 Tb. Bavarian Spice Mix (penzy's)

1 Tb. onion Flakes

1 Bay leaf

1 Apple, peeled, cored, chopped

Potatoes, your choice, cubed or left whole if small

Put all except potatoes in Dutch oven. Bring to a boil, reduce heat and Simmer, covered, on stove top or place in 300 degree oven for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Add potatos. When you add potatoes depends on how big they are, you don't want to overcook them

Simmer another hour. Let rest about 10 or 15 minutes.

At this point I remove the potatos and apples from the broth and place them in a metal bowl with butter, salt and pepper. Set them in a low oven to keep warm.

Remove top layer of fat from brisket, slice and serve with the potatoes, spooning some of the broth over everything. Don't forget the spicy mustard for dipping!

A great wine we like with this is a Spanish Marques de Caceres.

[fifi]

I have a braising method that does "melt in your mouth". Since RecipeGullet is temporarily off-line, I will introduce you to Crab Boil Corned Beef. You take a corned beef, I usually get a small flat for this, 3 pounds or so, and soak it in changes of cold water for a couple of hours. Then I mix a bag of whole crab boil spices (Zatarains if you can get it) with some added whole cloves and allspice and a 1/4 cup or so of brown sugar. Put that in a plastic bag with the beef and pound it into the surface. Into a Le Creuset with the lid on at 250 to 275 for about 3 or 4 hours. Knock off most of the seeds and stuff and slice.

[NulloModo]

Hmmm, I always do corned been in the crock pot for at least five or more hours, and it is always super tender melt in your mouth delicious. I suppose this is similar to braising, although if you have a crock pot you may want to try.

I usually toss it in with several chopped onions, some bay leaves, a touch of cayenne, and some vinegar.