Wine in Pasta Sauce

[seawakim]

Which is the best wine to use in a tomato based red pasta sauce and why?

[tommy]

whatever you're drinking with the dish? that's the old line.

i use fruit foward and/or acidic wines when possible. but i'll defer to the experts...

[Jason Perlow]

Any $10 italian table wine will do. Sangiovese, Nebbiolo, Chianti. Any inexpensive red, country of origin unimportant. There is no "best" really, especially if you are going to do it in a tomato sauce. A lot of the varietal character is gonna get nuked by the acidity of the tomatoes, or if youre gonna add black pepper or peperoncini overpowered even more so. Its there to add some body and for deglazing the caramelization of other ingredients in the pot or pan, thats about it.

[maggiethecat]

Which is the best wine to use in a tomato based red pasta sauce and why?

My short answer is: whatever you have handy. Why? 'Coz it's handy!

And in a tomato-based sauce, why waste the good stuff?

My fall-back white wine for cooking is white Vermouth. But in a pasta sauce, you might want something less assertive. One of those Chilean Chardonnays?

Or whatever you have an inch leftover from last night.

[Matt Seeber]

i'd say jason gets it right - don't sweat it. i make tomato sauce at home and add in whatever bottle of red is left over from last week. by the time you reduce, add tomato and cook out for another 3 hours you can't tell syrah from shinola.

[tommy]

matt, would you say this goes for all dishes?

when braising meats, i've had better results with, say, a fruity zin than with a thin cotes du rhone. of this i'm sure. perhaps other factors came into play, but i won't use an inexpensive cotes du rhone for that application again.

i subscribe to the theory of "whatever you start with, you'll end up with the same, but a bit magnified." or something like that. sugar, tannins, acidity, willl all come into play, and find their way into the dish.

what i'm saying is i don't just throw any old wine into a dish, regardless of how long it might be on the heat.

[Jason Perlow]

matt, would you say this goes for all dishes?

when braising meats, i've had better results with, say, a fruity zin than with a thin cotes du rhone.  of this i'm sure.  perhaps other factors came into play, but i won't use an inexpensive cotes du rhone for that application again. 

i subscribe to the theory of "whatever you start with, you'll end up with the same, but a bit magnified." or something like that.    sugar, tannins, acidity, willl all come into play, and find their way into the dish. 

what i'm saying is i don't just throw any old wine into a dish,  regardless of how long it might be on the heat.

There is a lot truth to this espeically if the wine reduction is the focus of the sauce.

Certainly I would never use chardonnay in a wine sauce... let alone for drinking!

[tommy]

There is a lot truth to this espeically if the wine reduction is the focus of the sauce.

Certainly I would never use chardonnay in a wine sauce... let alone for drinking! 

i wouldn't pour chardonnay on you if you were on fire. or maybe i would. oh hell, i don't even think there's a joke there, but i'm with you. oaked wines tend to turn dishes bitter in my experience.

[Matt Seeber]

would you say this goes for all dishes?

good question tommy - but i should add that i've probably never made a tomato sauce the same way twice! while it's always the same basic idea, there are always subtle differences to keep it interesting.

off the top of my head, the only other sauce i frequently add red wine to would be a veal reduction (bordelaise). for this i would use a fairly assertive wine such as cabernet. you're going to need tannins to stand up to the strength of the reduced, concentrated veal base of the sauce. it's a totally different dynamic than tomato.

[tommy]

would you say this goes for all dishes?

good question tommy - but i should add that i've probably never made a tomato sauce the same way twice! while it's always the same basic idea, there are always subtle differences to keep it interesting.

off the top of my head, the only other sauce i frequently add red wine to would be a veal reduction (bordelaise). for this i would use a fairly assertive wine such as cabernet. you're going to need tannins to stand up to the strength of the reduced, concentrated veal base of the sauce. it's a totally different dynamic than tomato.

good. so you agree with me.

seriously, i don't like to recommend that people throw in whatever they have around. when i do recommend that, however, i always bring up the old cliche of "never cook with something you wouldn't drink." guidelines are always good. you'd be *shocked* at what some people have "lying around."

Edited February 11, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Dave the Cook]

Given a preference, I'll go for a blend over a straight varietal. Like tommy said, there's a magnification effect, and somtimes I notice a zin or an assertive Italian hijacking the flavor. Having said that, I'll also agree with tommy that you should avoid thin wines. For instance, there's almost always a bottle of Ca del Solo around, but I don't use it if the sauce will simmer for a while. It just gets sharp and acrid. Likewise for oaky wines -- sometimes I wonder if wouldn't have been better off just throwing a piece of firewood in the pot. This goes for whites as well; I don't cook with chards because they're almost almost always oaked.

I'm not sure I wouldn't use white wine in red gravy, depending on the eventual usage.

Time to stop preaching.

[Matt Seeber]

whatever they have around

i'm more of the mindset of question everything. just because so and so says so and so sux with so and so doesn't mean i'm gonna agree. i'll want to try it out for myself. fwiw, you're right about over oaked cali chards reduced in a sauce - no bueno!

[maggiethecat]

i always bring up the old cliche of "never cook with something you wouldn't drink."  guidelines are always good.  you'd be *shocked* at what some people have "lying around."   

Well..I'll drink most stuff. Don't have the palate or the bucks you have, dear Tommy! The chardonnay was picked out of nowhere. Still prefer the vermouth. Go on: Try It!

Please say you'll respect me in the morning.

Prefer whites in tomato based sauces. But hey, red's good too.

And although I can usually find something better in my kitchen, my husband's Nonna made ragu to die for, and simple pomodoro, with a gallon jug of Gallo.

Edited February 11, 2003 by maggiethecat (log)

[Dave the Cook]

Still prefer the vermouth.  Go on: Try It!

Please say you'll respect me in the morning.

Prefer whites in tomato based sauces.  But hey, red's good too.

And although I can usually find something better in my kitchen, my husband's Nonna made ragu to die for, and simple pomodoro, with a gallon jug of Gallo.

Right! Until they discovered the magic of varietal marketing, Gallo made blends. I used to use a lot of Carlo Rossi, too.

I also use a lot of vermouth, by way of St. Julia. But sometimes it's too herbal, so I steal from Mrs. Dave's stash.

[ctgm]

[i always bring up the old cliche of "never cook with something you wouldn't drink."  guidelines are always good.  you'd be *shocked* at what some people have "lying around."

There was a test carried out here in the UK by some winos & chefs who cooked up the same dish but used different wines. The results showed that there was no difference in taste in the dishes.

Obviously they weren't using the oxidised bottle that had been open for a month!

[delights]

In France in Pasta sauce,we prefere to add a jam of

wine and not only wine.

The best jams of wine come from bordeaux,or Alsace

or Corbières.

The jam of wine seems to be back in style§

[Kikujiro]

In France in Pasta sauce,we prefere to  add a jam of

wine  and not only wine.

Some excellent wine jams are/were carried by Stefano Cavallini over here (plug redux). The store is very good at pairing them with their excellent cheeses.

[AdamLawrence]

In France in Pasta sauce,we prefere to  add a jam of

wine  and not only wine.

Some excellent wine jams are/were carried by Stefano Cavallini over here (plug redux). The store is very good at pairing them with their excellent cheeses.

Waitrose have several too, though I haven't tried them. However, at four or five quid for a small pot I think it'd have to be a special sauce.....

Adam

[Dave the Cook]

[i always bring up the old cliche of "never cook with something you wouldn't drink."  guidelines are always good.  you'd be *shocked* at what some people have "lying around."

There was a test carried out here in the UK by some winos & chefs who cooked up the same dish but used different wines. The results showed that there was no difference in taste in the dishes.

Obviously they weren't using the oxidised bottle that had been open for a month!

Interesting. Cook's Illustrated did the same thing, with different results:

...I selected four new bottles of wine: Sangiovese (a medium-bodied wine from Italy), red Zinfandel (from California), Pinot Noir (from Burgundy, France), and Côtes du Rhône (from southern France). The Sangiovese tasted great in the tomato sauce but made an astringent pan sauce and a cardboard-tasting stew. The Zinfandel tasted overcooked and jammy in the tomato sauce and turned the pan sauce bitter. While both the Côtes du Rhône and Pinot Noir turned in impressive results across the board, the Côtes du Rhône was stellar.

They also note that technique makes a big difference in the final product:

The right wine can taste all wrong if cooked badly. That’s because as wine is heated, delicate flavor compounds known as esters break apart, turning fruity flavors and aromas muddy and sour. The higher the heat, the more rapidly these esters will change from good to horrid.

Complete article here (Requires $ registration, which includes one-year magazine subscription.)

[nerissa]

whatever they have around

i'm more of the mindset of question everything. just because so and so says so and so sux with so and so doesn't mean i'm gonna agree. i'll want to try it out for myself. fwiw, you're right about over oaked cali chards reduced in a sauce - no bueno!

Not too mention all that damn vanilla notes in chardonnay. I cannot even drink most of them.

I usually use whatever I am drinking. As Julia and my mother say "The better the wine, the better the chicken."

[Coop]

If the Tomato sauce has no onions I would recomend a half bottle of Petrus 82. If onions are involved perhaps a Grange hermitage from the 90s. These are my recomendations unless money is an issue then you may have to consider the same wines but in off vintages.